Republicans: Healthcare worse for Americans than 9-11

[sealybobo]

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

Ummmmm....how did we do with those "pro-business" republicans in control for eight years?

Stock Market lost 33%

Unemployment doubled

Fact is American business is at a disadvantage worldwide because they have to pay healthcare, Nationalized healtcare would be good for all businesses except for the insurance companies who make billions denying coverage

In what eight years did Republicans have both the white house and congress?

Oh excuse us. You had Bush for 8 and the GOP ran everything for 6 of 8.

You also had Reagan for 8, Bush 1 for 4 and Clinton was just as bad with things like NAFTA for his 8 years.

And now we see the lobbyists/special interest own a bunch of our "blue dogs".

Bottom line is that on every issue, the GOP have been anti people and pro corporations. Perfect example is John Roberts of the Supreme Court. He sides with corporations and against people every time he makes a ruling.

Deregulations was the GOP's puppy, no? And we now know that the things they deregulated are the very things that led to the housing and job market and the stock market collapses? Whether it was the Newt GOP of the 90's or the Tom Delay's of the 2000's, we know the GOP ruined the American way for millions of Americans.

Now we must lean on the "blue dog Democrats" to stop siding with the GOP and special interest.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Ummmmm....how did we do with those "pro-business" republicans in control for eight years?

Stock Market lost 33%

Unemployment doubled

Fact is American business is at a disadvantage worldwide because they have to pay healthcare, Nationalized healtcare would be good for all businesses except for the insurance companies who make billions denying coverage

In what eight years did Republicans have both the white house and congress?

Oh excuse us. You had Bush for 8 and the GOP ran everything for 6 of 8.

You also had Reagan for 8, Bush 1 for 4 and Clinton was just as bad with things like NAFTA for his 8 years.

And now we see the lobbyists/special interest own a bunch of our "blue dogs".

Bottom line is that on every issue, the GOP have been anti people and pro corporations.

who runs corporations, again?

Perfect example is John Roberts of the Supreme Court. He sides with corporations and against people every time he makes a ruling.

Perhaps you should read Kelo v. City of New London.

Deregulations was the GOP's puppy, no? And we now know that the things they deregulated are the very things that led to the housing and job market and the stock market collapses? Whether it was the Newt GOP of the 90's or the Tom Delay's of the 2000's, we know the GOP ruined the American way for millions of Americans.


Nice revision of history. Who exactly is Barney Frank, again?

Now we must lean on the "blue dog Democrats" to stop siding with the GOP and special interest.

Yeah. it will be a great day when another 1/6 of our economy is turned from the hands of the private sector over to the public sector.

 

[rightwinger]

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

Ummmmm....how did we do with those "pro-business" republicans in control for eight years?

Stock Market lost 33%

Unemployment doubled

Fact is American business is at a disadvantage worldwide because they have to pay healthcare, Nationalized healtcare would be good for all businesses except for the insurance companies who make billions denying coverage

In what eight years did Republicans have both the white house and congress?

Come on Punk...stop ducking

Where are all those jobs the Bush tax cuts were going to bring?

How bout the "trickle down" from tax cuts and deregulation of business?

I thought your party was good for business....why do we only get economic surges during Democratic control?

 

[sealybobo]

hey Zona...is the Govt going to cover EVERYONE no matter what their problem,no matter how expensive their treatment (if they have insurance with them, yes.)......is the govt going to send health care workers to someones house to take care of someone who needs professional help (perhaps, depends on the situation).....are they going to cover catastrophic illnesses(yes)....surgeries that cost 6 figures.....are they going to help the elderly cover costs if they need to go to a home OR are they going to ask for their house to be signed over to them(the way the sytem works now is, people give up their hoses or die because of the caps, you do know this right? Bankruptcies, lose houses etc etc).....and one final question.....if this plan that Pelosi thinks is so hot....is that great.....is Congress going to join the peasants and be on this plan also(they already have insurance, why would they, why would you?)....

you dance as well as Rocks Zona....answer post 138....

Dance with that. Every single thing you just mentioned happens now to people with insurance and those insurance companies can drop people for those reasons. How is this fair?

If they have competition, cant not accept you because of pre existing conditions, then we win. Do you think the system works now? If so, stay with your company, pay what you pay and leave the uninsured alone.

This bill has nothing, NOTHING to do with you. Keep your insurance. $$$

hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....

Everyone will be covered. We will be spreading the risk so the masses will bear the expense. If one person goes to the doctor a lot, consider 9 out of 10 people rarely go.

Think about how insane medicare for seniors is. They lump all the oldest people together in a plan. So the costs must be outragous. They all use the doctors a lot. Let young people buy in and pay about $100 a month and they can get exactly what you old farts get. They won't use it as much as you old folks do so they will actually bring down the costs.

And the insurance companies will have to lower their prices to try to gain new customers. Its brilliant.

 

[sealybobo]

In what eight years did Republicans have both the white house and congress?

Oh excuse us. You had Bush for 8 and the GOP ran everything for 6 of 8.

You also had Reagan for 8, Bush 1 for 4 and Clinton was just as bad with things like NAFTA for his 8 years.

And now we see the lobbyists/special interest own a bunch of our "blue dogs".

Bottom line is that on every issue, the GOP have been anti people and pro corporations.

who runs corporations, again?

Perfect example is John Roberts of the Supreme Court. He sides with corporations and against people every time he makes a ruling.

Perhaps you should read Kelo v. City of New London.

Deregulations was the GOP's puppy, no? And we now know that the things they deregulated are the very things that led to the housing and job market and the stock market collapses? Whether it was the Newt GOP of the 90's or the Tom Delay's of the 2000's, we know the GOP ruined the American way for millions of Americans.


Nice revision of history. Who exactly is Barney Frank, again?

Now we must lean on the "blue dog Democrats" to stop siding with the GOP and special interest.

Yeah. it will be a great day when another 1/6 of our economy is turned from the hands of the private sector over to the public sector.

Why is it you condemn Barnie Frank for doing what he did but you don't mind that Republicans do the same things?

And do you know why you don't outsource war to For profits? They never want the war to end. It would be bad for business.

What's my point? Some things should not be run by for profits. Healthcare is one of those things. At least not unregulated for profits. Same for oil. It should be regulated. And the oil companies pushed too far too and we almost had to socialize them too. Notice they don't try to charge $4 on the Dems watch.

So the Dems are $1.50 a gallon better than the GOP. You can actually put a number on it now.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

non-responsive idiocy.

So how many bankruptcies you think are due to car notes?

Lots of bankruptcies include debts on vehicles.

How many?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

for some time this thread has been about forcing individuals to buy insurance to defray the costs of a public option.

The government already forces us to buy health insurance. We just can't use it till we're old. Its called Medicare.

In short- what you want is for the government to make personal decisions for us.

Like who one gets to marry? Or what drugs an adult may do in the privacy of their own home? Or how much of our income we have to pay in taxes (see the 16th amendment)?

Because apparently you dont believe people should make their own decisions when it comes to health insurance.

Apparently, you have no brain.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

no, its not up to the taxpayers. The uninsured that do not pay have no effect on your taxes. The costs are passed on to consumers.

I dunno about you, but I'm both a taxpayer and a consumer, and a dollar taken from me is a dollar taken from me. Why do I care whether its passed to me the consumer or me the taxpayer - we're the same person!

Just as they are in my car example.

You have yet to provide any evidence that unpaid car notes are anywhere close to the level of unpaid medical bills in this country. I don't know ANYONE with an unpaid $750,000 car note!

 

[sealybobo]

no, its not up to the taxpayers. The uninsured that do not pay have no effect on your taxes. The costs are passed on to consumers.

I dunno about you, but I'm both a taxpayer and a consumer, and a dollar taken from me is a dollar taken from me. Why do I care whether its passed to me the consumer or me the taxpayer - we're the same person!

Just as they are in my car example.

You have yet to provide any evidence that unpaid car notes are anywhere close to the level of unpaid medical bills in this country. I don't know ANYONE with an unpaid $750,000 car note!

I bet Republicans would not have been for the war in Iraq if it was passed on them as consumers rather than how Bush just put it on the debt and/or borrowed the money from China.

So clearly republicans prefer the government take on the costs rather than us consumers, right?

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Dance with that. Every single thing you just mentioned happens now to people with insurance and those insurance companies can drop people for those reasons. How is this fair?

If they have competition, cant not accept you because of pre existing conditions, then we win. Do you think the system works now? If so, stay with your company, pay what you pay and leave the uninsured alone.

This bill has nothing, NOTHING to do with you. Keep your insurance. $$$

hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....

Everyone will be covered.

Awesome. Even those with different priorities that do not wanthe coverage. Govt wil save us from ourselves. A liberal paradise.

We will be spreading the risk so the masses will bear the expense.

You could say "forcing the risk onto others" Or simply "spreading the wealth"


If one person goes to the doctor a lot, consider 9 out of 10 people rarely go.

Between the ages of 18 and 30 very few need insurance. Luckily, though, the libs will take care of those individuals' decision making authority. Thanks for that.

Think about how insane medicare for seniors is. They lump all the oldest people together in a plan. So the costs must be outragous.

Just wait until a plan with no bottom-line takes over the entire industry. With no incentive to keep costs in check- we should have a bargain on our hands.

They all use the doctors a lot. Let young people buy in and pay about $100 a month and they can get exactly what you old farts get. They won't use it as much as you old folks do so they will actually bring down the costs.

And the insurance companies will have to lower their prices to try to gain new customers. Its brilliant.

More than likely, business will simply dump employee coverage to save money. Great plan

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Oh excuse us. You had Bush for 8 and the GOP ran everything for 6 of 8.

You also had Reagan for 8, Bush 1 for 4 and Clinton was just as bad with things like NAFTA for his 8 years.

And now we see the lobbyists/special interest own a bunch of our "blue dogs".

Bottom line is that on every issue, the GOP have been anti people and pro corporations.

who runs corporations, again?

Perfect example is John Roberts of the Supreme Court. He sides with corporations and against people every time he makes a ruling.

Perhaps you should read Kelo v. City of New London.

Deregulations was the GOP's puppy, no? And we now know that the things they deregulated are the very things that led to the housing and job market and the stock market collapses? Whether it was the Newt GOP of the 90's or the Tom Delay's of the 2000's, we know the GOP ruined the American way for millions of Americans.


Nice revision of history. Who exactly is Barney Frank, again?

Now we must lean on the "blue dog Democrats" to stop siding with the GOP and special interest.

Yeah. it will be a great day when another 1/6 of our economy is turned from the hands of the private sector over to the public sector.

Why is it you condemn Barnie Frank for doing what he did but you don't mind that Republicans do the same things?

Why do you condemn Republicans for the bipartisan mess we are in?

And do you know why you don't outsource war to For profits? They never want the war to end. It would be bad for business.

Yeash. Thats why we dont privatize the military and national security policy. Good point.

What's my point? Some things should not be run by for profits. Healthcare is one of those things. At least not unregulated for profits.

Lets make one sixth of our economy non-profit. Or better yet- government owned. SHould be good for the economy- to say nothing of individual liberty.

Same for oil. It should be regulated. And the oil companies pushed too far too and we almost had to socialize them too. Notice they don't try to charge $4 on the Dems watch.

So the Dems are $1.50 a gallon better than the GOP. You can actually put a number on it now.

Such a rudimentary understanding of economics. Do not try to start your own business. Always be an employee. Its the only chance you have in life.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

for some time this thread has been about forcing individuals to buy insurance to defray the costs of a public option.

The government already forces us to buy health insurance. We just can't use it till we're old. Its called Medicare.

Theory and application are two different things. We buy Medicare now for those using it now. And when we use it- it will be up to someone else to pay for it. Which is exactly what you libs love- livin on someone else's dime.

In short- what you want is for the government to make personal decisions for us.

Like who one gets to marry? Or what drugs an adult may do in the privacy of their own home? Or how much of our income we have to pay in taxes (see the 16th amendment)?

And you just want to keep having those decisions removed from individuals. A liberal's paradise- where decisions are made by a higher authority.

Because apparently you dont believe people should make their own decisions when it comes to health insurance.

Apparently, you have no brain.

Well, I least I have the balls to make my own decisions and the courage to take responsibility for those decisions. I will take that over your spineless, gutless, and irresponsible "intellectualism" (translate: emasculation) any day.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

no, its not up to the taxpayers. The uninsured that do not pay have no effect on your taxes. The costs are passed on to consumers.

I dunno about you, but I'm both a taxpayer and a consumer, and a dollar taken from me is a dollar taken from me. Why do I care whether its passed to me the consumer or me the taxpayer - we're the same person!

That depends on whether you want to pay extra to the government or to the corporation. And a dollar given to purchase is just that; given. Not taken. Which is to say nothing of the obfuscation caused by failing to accurately identify which hat one where's when the applicable situation is being addressed.

Just as they are in my car example.

You have yet to provide any evidence that unpaid car notes are anywhere close to the level of unpaid medical bills in this country. I don't know ANYONE with an unpaid $750,000 car note!

What difference does that make, if your premise is that government should make decisions for all of us if poor decision making causes price increases? If you want to take over 1/6 of the economy- why not just take the whole damn thing and be done? Is it that some personal decisions are just too important to make? Do you need health insurance so badly that I cannot be trusted to make that determination for myself? Why should any of your needs be so important as to dictate what my needs are? I really need a car. Maybe you should have to buy one too.

 

[Harry Dresden]

hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....

Everyone will be covered.

sure about that Bo....EVERYONE?.....NO exceptions....no matter how expensive their condition is?......

 

[sealybobo]

hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....

Everyone will be covered.

Awesome. Even those with different priorities that do not wanthe coverage. Govt wil save us from ourselves. A liberal paradise.

We will be spreading the risk so the masses will bear the expense.

You could say "forcing the risk onto others" Or simply "spreading the wealth"


If one person goes to the doctor a lot, consider 9 out of 10 people rarely go.

Between the ages of 18 and 30 very few need insurance. Luckily, though, the libs will take care of those individuals' decision making authority. Thanks for that.

Think about how insane medicare for seniors is. They lump all the oldest people together in a plan. So the costs must be outragous.

Just wait until a plan with no bottom-line takes over the entire industry. With no incentive to keep costs in check- we should have a bargain on our hands.

They all use the doctors a lot. Let young people buy in and pay about $100 a month and they can get exactly what you old farts get. They won't use it as much as you old folks do so they will actually bring down the costs.

And the insurance companies will have to lower their prices to try to gain new customers. Its brilliant.

More than likely, business will simply dump employee coverage to save money. Great plan

It didn't happen in Canada overnight, or everywhere all at once. It started in one province, worked, and then other provinces copies it.

 

[sealybobo]

Yeah. it will be a great day when another 1/6 of our economy is turned from the hands of the private sector over to the public sector.

Why is it you condemn Barnie Frank for doing what he did but you don't mind that Republicans do the same things?

Why do you condemn Republicans for the bipartisan mess we are in?

And do you know why you don't outsource war to For profits? They never want the war to end. It would be bad for business.

Yeash. Thats why we dont privatize the military and national security policy. Good point.

What's my point? Some things should not be run by for profits. Healthcare is one of those things. At least not unregulated for profits.

Lets make one sixth of our economy non-profit. Or better yet- government owned. SHould be good for the economy- to say nothing of individual liberty.

Same for oil. It should be regulated. And the oil companies pushed too far too and we almost had to socialize them too. Notice they don't try to charge $4 on the Dems watch.

So the Dems are $1.50 a gallon better than the GOP. You can actually put a number on it now.

Such a rudimentary understanding of economics. Do not try to start your own business. Always be an employee. Its the only chance you have in life.

I understand I'm an employee, so I am pro labor/union. I totally understand the employers position on every issue. I just disagree. I understand they think they deserve more of the profits. It is in the companies nature to want to push too far on this. That's why we have government/labor laws.

And today we aren't organized, so wages have gone down, or flatlined. But the cost of everything went up. So technically, you make less. Millions have experienced this. Even at my company, we all took a % cut. What are we going to do, go to the competition? Their doing it too.

And I don't mind in bad times, but they were cutting wages when corporate profits were up, like in 2005 and 06 and 07. Then they purposely tanked the economy.

So either one of three things has to happen.

1. The liberals pass pro labor bills to increase wages. Fix what is wrong for the middle class. People going further into debt just to maintain a basic standard of living. Fix NAFTA and put tariffs back on some imports. Not all, but on things that are important to american manufacuturing. Basically do what every other country is doing. Only America has zero protections.

2. Free healthcare so it free's up disposable income

3. Unions become more popular again. They've been crushed since Reagan and are almost irrelivent.

4. More jobs. If there are more jobs than there are workers, then wages go up. Greenspan said part of his job was to keep unemployment at a certain level because of wages. So he admits it. That means illegals go home. That means we bring some manufacturing jobs home too. I hope Obama/Pelosi/Reed deal with this next year.

 

[sealybobo]

no, its not up to the taxpayers. The uninsured that do not pay have no effect on your taxes. The costs are passed on to consumers.

I dunno about you, but I'm both a taxpayer and a consumer, and a dollar taken from me is a dollar taken from me. Why do I care whether its passed to me the consumer or me the taxpayer - we're the same person!

That depends on whether you want to pay extra to the government or to the corporation. And a dollar given to purchase is just that; given. Not taken. Which is to say nothing of the obfuscation caused by failing to accurately identify which hat one where's when the applicable situation is being addressed.

Just as they are in my car example.

You have yet to provide any evidence that unpaid car notes are anywhere close to the level of unpaid medical bills in this country. I don't know ANYONE with an unpaid $750,000 car note!

What difference does that make, if your premise is that government should make decisions for all of us if poor decision making causes price increases? If you want to take over 1/6 of the economy- why not just take the whole damn thing and be done? Is it that some personal decisions are just too important to make? Do you need health insurance so badly that I cannot be trusted to make that determination for myself? Why should any of your needs be so important as to dictate what my needs are? I really need a car. Maybe you should have to buy one too.

You don't make any decision. The company you work for decides who your insurance provider is. Take it or leave it. And there is no other option. Its not like you get a pick of providers.

Now maybe you are self employeed? Ok, you can still pick. Pay $2000 a month for private insurance or $150 for the Government plan.

I wonder why large companies like GE or Ford who have thousands of workers aren't more vocally supporting the idea of single payer/gov run healthcare??? It would take a huge cost off their plates. They want to be competitive with other nations who all provide their citizens with healthcare. I love throwing this back in conservatives faces.

But the Corporate media wouldn't tell us that if they were in favor of this, just like they really don't show Americans that Canadians are offended at the right wing spin being put on Canada's healthcare. Its pretty damn good and they are proud. THey prefer theirs to ours.

 

[sealybobo]

hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....

Everyone will be covered.

sure about that Bo....EVERYONE?.....NO exceptions....no matter how expensive their condition is?......

That's right. And if you put us all in a pool together, those people don't add up to much. There are millions who won't use it at all. And we are all paying in.

I'm assuming you know how insurance pools work?

 

[Harry Dresden]

I hope Obama/Pelosi/Reed deal with this next year.

you expect the 3 stooges to get this done?.....you put too much faith in these people Bo....too many of them are out of touch with reality....they have these big wonderful ideas that are going to cost people who are already hurting or not working more of what they dont have....the bubble is going to burst and then you are going to see many people going berserk towards these people.....my state is the foremost example of prosperity gone bad.....learn from it......

 

[Harry Dresden]

Everyone will be covered.

sure about that Bo....EVERYONE?.....NO exceptions....no matter how expensive their condition is?......

That's right. And if you put us all in a pool together, those people don't add up to much. There are millions who won't use it at all. And we are all paying in.

I'm assuming you know how insurance pools work?

well you better visit the other threads about this Bo....those pro-UHC people over there are saying that the so called "expensive" diseases will probably not be covered ...just the nice and affordable ones....UNLESS as Zona said you are carrying a private plan along side the Public one.....of course he did not answer the question of....what if you cant afford the private one?...as apparently many cant....shit out of luck i guess.......