Republicans: Healthcare worse for Americans than 9-11

[ThePickledPunk]

So how many bankruptcies you think are due to car notes?

Lots of bankruptcies include debts on vehicles.

But car notes aren't the main reason for bankruptsy. Medical bills is the straw that breaks peoples backs. Medical bills is more often "the reason" when people are asked why they went bankrupt. And what about the people that suck it up, don't go bankrupt and just spend the rest of their lives paying off that $50K hospital visit?

You guys don't care and won't do anything about it even though it is happening to way too many of your "constituents". Now you'll call the Dems communists if they try to put your precious corporations in check? Gotta protect the Corporations and CEO's of our country.

If Obama and the Dems fail, we all lose.

Legal judgements and unpaid taxes "break people's backs" too. BK is a way to resolve those debts.

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

Your statement that "you guys dont care" is about as informed as your belief that good samaritan laws create an obligation on my behalf to render you aid. It shows just how much you understand about the world in which we live. I don't care to see the government telling me or you or anyone else how to appropriate their budgets. It would be more accurate for you to say that I care about the rights of everybody. What I dont care for are the underachieving and self-righteous leftists that believe our government is better situated to make personal decisions for individual than the individuals themselves.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

for some time this thread has been about forcing individuals to buy insurance to defray the costs of a public option. Because the non-insured that dont pay their medical bills contribute to higher costs. As do those that default on car loans- which is no reason to get the government involved in forcing people to purchase cars. Or insurance that the individual, who is in the best position to determine what he needs, decides is unnecessary. In short- what you want is for the government to make personal decisions for us. Because apparently you dont believe people should make their own decisions when it comes to health insurance.

They make a decision not to buy health insurance up until the time they show up at the emergency room wanting critical treatment.
Then it is up to the taxpayers to pay the bill

Its unaffordable for people who don't have an employer paying for it.

Another gross exxagerations. Millions and Millions of individuals, those currently insured and those uninsured, can afford insurance that is not employer subsidized. And millions of those that cant are in that situation because of their own choices in life.

Even then sometimes its not enough. Pre existing conditions or your insurance doesn't cover certain things. Its a monopoly and needs to be put into check. CEO's who want to make $45 billion a year don't want to cover you when you get sick. Wake up!

And for you Republicans. What about your love of corporations who are paying crazy amounts of $ on healthcare.

You mean those corporations that employ tens of millions and pay dividends to tens of millions?

We're the only country that makes our companies pay.

show me the statute that "forces our companies to pay"... insurance costs for individuals. You are gettin dumber by the minute. Those corporations we love so dearly offer health insurance in order to attract good workers. They are not forced. Grow up. Or at least start going to your high school classes instead of ditchin scholl and playin xbox all day.



We want them to be competitive, right? This must make right wingers heads explode.

yes. your idiocy is causing a tremendous amount of pressure in my skull.



Decisions, decisions.

Appears your parents have made some poor ones regarding your education.

 

[rightwinger]

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

How callous

Take responsibility for yourself?

If you have a child that has leukemia, you expect people to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment?
If you get cancer and can no longer work, it is OK with you that people lose their insurance and their homes in trying to pay the bills?

The US is the only industrialized nation that allows people to go into poerty because of healthcare bills. People in other countries are amazed at how little we care for our own.

And we are the richest nation on earth

 

[sealybobo]

Lots of bankruptcies include debts on vehicles.

But car notes aren't the main reason for bankruptsy. Medical bills is the straw that breaks peoples backs. Medical bills is more often "the reason" when people are asked why they went bankrupt. And what about the people that suck it up, don't go bankrupt and just spend the rest of their lives paying off that $50K hospital visit?

You guys don't care and won't do anything about it even though it is happening to way too many of your "constituents". Now you'll call the Dems communists if they try to put your precious corporations in check? Gotta protect the Corporations and CEO's of our country.

If Obama and the Dems fail, we all lose.

Legal judgements and unpaid taxes "break people's backs" too. BK is a way to resolve those debts.

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

Your statement that "you guys dont care" is about as informed as your belief that good samaritan laws create an obligation on my behalf to render you aid. It shows just how much you understand about the world in which we live. I don't care to see the government telling me or you or anyone else how to appropriate their budgets. It would be more accurate for you to say that I care about the rights of everybody. What I dont care for are the underachieving and self-righteous leftists that believe our government is better situated to make personal decisions for individual than the individuals themselves.

That stuff about government making your personal decisions is bs. I hope you know that. That's just Rush/Fox puttin the fear in you about liberal/progressives. When you get into the specifics, that's just downright a distraction to the real problems.

The issues are these.

1. The insurance companies are FOR PROFIT and they are gouging us and we need to put them in check. It may be better that government run single payer than FOR PROFITS because they are corrupt/greedy.

2. They are denying people healthcare to maximize their profits.

3. They aren't covering pre existing conditions.

4. Healthcare is not affordable enough and government might need to regulate this.

There is no question that these things are true. And most likely, you can even argue that these things are ok. I wouldn't be surprised. Republicans/Righties can argue anything. Luckily, we run the government now. This is the New Deal and you righties argued with FDR too.

Your lobbyists have even gotten to many of our Democrats. But we will lean on them and get er done.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

How callous

Take responsibility for yourself?


Yes. If one is able to pay their debts, they should do so. Its part of being responsible. If I owe you ten bucks, I should pay you that before I buy myself a hoagie.

If you have a child that has leukemia, you expect people to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment?

I'd pay every last dime, and even though I have insurance, I might have to. That wont change under any circumstances. Nobody has a limitless cap on what insurance will pay.

If you get cancer and can no longer work, it is OK with you that people lose their insurance and their homes in trying to pay the bills?

If I get cancer and can no longer work, how does that effect someone else's insurance and mortgage? If I get cancer and cant work, I expect I would lose my home and move into more affordable digs, if thats what I needed to do.

The US is the only industrialized nation that allows people to go into poerty because of healthcare bills. People in other countries are amazed at how little we care for our own.

And we are the richest nation on earth

yet the line to get in here stretches for miles and miles...

 

[sealybobo]

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

How callous

Take responsibility for yourself?

If you have a child that has leukemia, you expect people to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment?
If you get cancer and can no longer work, it is OK with you that people lose their insurance and their homes in trying to pay the bills?

The US is the only industrialized nation that allows people to go into poerty because of healthcare bills. People in other countries are amazed at how little we care for our own.

And we are the richest nation on earth

Can you imagine how expensive water would be if we let private for profit companies run our water system?

 

[sealybobo]

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

How callous

Take responsibility for yourself?


Yes. If one is able to pay their debts, they should do so. Its part of being responsible. If I owe you ten bucks, I should pay you that before I buy myself a hoagie.

If you have a child that has leukemia, you expect people to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment?

I'd pay every last dime, and even though I have insurance, I might have to. That wont change under any circumstances. Nobody has a limitless cap on what insurance will pay.

If you get cancer and can no longer work, it is OK with you that people lose their insurance and their homes in trying to pay the bills?

If I get cancer and can no longer work, how does that effect someone else's insurance and mortgage? If I get cancer and cant work, I expect I would lose my home and move into more affordable digs, if thats what I needed to do.

The US is the only industrialized nation that allows people to go into poerty because of healthcare bills. People in other countries are amazed at how little we care for our own.

And we are the richest nation on earth

yet the line to get in here stretches for miles and miles...

Yes, with people who are willing to work for much less than you, and employers/corporations who are willing to hire them on the DL.

And they get free healthcare.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

But car notes aren't the main reason for bankruptsy. Medical bills is the straw that breaks peoples backs. Medical bills is more often "the reason" when people are asked why they went bankrupt. And what about the people that suck it up, don't go bankrupt and just spend the rest of their lives paying off that $50K hospital visit?

You guys don't care and won't do anything about it even though it is happening to way too many of your "constituents". Now you'll call the Dems communists if they try to put your precious corporations in check? Gotta protect the Corporations and CEO's of our country.

If Obama and the Dems fail, we all lose.

Legal judgements and unpaid taxes "break people's backs" too. BK is a way to resolve those debts.

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

Your statement that "you guys dont care" is about as informed as your belief that good samaritan laws create an obligation on my behalf to render you aid. It shows just how much you understand about the world in which we live. I don't care to see the government telling me or you or anyone else how to appropriate their budgets. It would be more accurate for you to say that I care about the rights of everybody. What I dont care for are the underachieving and self-righteous leftists that believe our government is better situated to make personal decisions for individual than the individuals themselves.

That stuff about government making your personal decisions is bs.
REALLY? Aren't you advocating that the government force every American to buy insurance under penalty of fine?

I hope you know that. That's just Rush/Fox puttin the fear in you about liberal/progressives.
Progressives believe in big government, little people. Socialism. Big Spending. Equalization. Thats scary. And I dont listen to Rush- he is an idiot.

When you get into the specifics, that's just downright a distraction to the real problems.

The issues are these.

1. The insurance companies are FOR PROFIT and they are gouging us and we need to put them in check.
Agreed.

It may be better that government run single payer than FOR PROFITS because they are corrupt/greedy.

You are beyond naive. If insurance is not run for profit- why do you think the delivery system will be efficient at all? A single payer system will result in skyrocketing costs, long waits, and rationing- as it has everywhere it has been tried.

2. They are denying people healthcare to maximize their profits.

I agree that some reform is need. But the system works far better than you give it credit for.

3. They aren't covering pre existing conditions.

see number 3

4. Healthcare is not affordable enough and government might need to regulate this.

There are about ten million people that generally need help that can be rendered without the complete transformation of 1/6th of our economy.

There is no question that these things are true. And most likely, you can even argue that these things are ok. I wouldn't be surprised. Republicans/Righties can argue anything. Luckily, we run the government now. This is the New Deal and you righties argued with FDR too.

Your lobbyists have even gotten to many of our Democrats. But we will lean on them and get er done.

God help us. We will destroy a system that works for 200 million+ people.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

How callous

Take responsibility for yourself?


Yes. If one is able to pay their debts, they should do so. Its part of being responsible. If I owe you ten bucks, I should pay you that before I buy myself a hoagie.

If you have a child that has leukemia, you expect people to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment?

I'd pay every last dime, and even though I have insurance, I might have to. That wont change under any circumstances. Nobody has a limitless cap on what insurance will pay.

If you get cancer and can no longer work, it is OK with you that people lose their insurance and their homes in trying to pay the bills?

If I get cancer and can no longer work, how does that effect someone else's insurance and mortgage? If I get cancer and cant work, I expect I would lose my home and move into more affordable digs, if thats what I needed to do.

The US is the only industrialized nation that allows people to go into poerty because of healthcare bills. People in other countries are amazed at how little we care for our own.

And we are the richest nation on earth

yet the line to get in here stretches for miles and miles...

Yes, with people who are willing to work for much less than you, and employers/corporations who are willing to hire them on the DL.

And they get free healthcare.

I just cant believe you are older than ten.

 

[sealybobo]

Legal judgements and unpaid taxes "break people's backs" too. BK is a way to resolve those debts.

As for the people that spend the rest of their lives paying off the debt they acquired- I say way to take responsibility for yourself.

Your statement that "you guys dont care" is about as informed as your belief that good samaritan laws create an obligation on my behalf to render you aid. It shows just how much you understand about the world in which we live. I don't care to see the government telling me or you or anyone else how to appropriate their budgets. It would be more accurate for you to say that I care about the rights of everybody. What I dont care for are the underachieving and self-righteous leftists that believe our government is better situated to make personal decisions for individual than the individuals themselves.

That stuff about government making your personal decisions is bs.
REALLY? Aren't you advocating that the government force every American to buy insurance under penalty of fine?

I hope you know that. That's just Rush/Fox puttin the fear in you about liberal/progressives.
Progressives believe in big government, little people. Socialism. Big Spending. Equalization. Thats scary. And I dont listen to Rush- he is an idiot.

When you get into the specifics, that's just downright a distraction to the real problems.

The issues are these.

1. The insurance companies are FOR PROFIT and they are gouging us and we need to put them in check.
Agreed.

It may be better that government run single payer than FOR PROFITS because they are corrupt/greedy.

You are beyond naive. If insurance is not run for profit- why do you think the delivery system will be efficient at all? A single payer system will result in skyrocketing costs, long waits, and rationing- as it has everywhere it has been tried.

2. They are denying people healthcare to maximize their profits.

I agree that some reform is need. But the system works far better than you give it credit for.

3. They aren't covering pre existing conditions.

see number 3

4. Healthcare is not affordable enough and government might need to regulate this.

There are about ten million people that generally need help that can be rendered without the complete transformation of 1/6th of our economy.

There is no question that these things are true. And most likely, you can even argue that these things are ok. I wouldn't be surprised. Republicans/Righties can argue anything. Luckily, we run the government now. This is the New Deal and you righties argued with FDR too.

Your lobbyists have even gotten to many of our Democrats. But we will lean on them and get er done.

God help us. We will destroy a system that works for 200 million+ people.

How many of those 200 million could leave an employer and end up with a pre existing condition that their new employers healthcare provider won't cover?

And most of you who are arguing to "leave your healthcare alone", won't be able to afford it in 10 years.

PS. If I'm 10, I bet you aren't smarter than a 5th grader.

 

[sealybobo]

yet the line to get in here stretches for miles and miles...

Yes, with people who are willing to work for much less than you, and employers/corporations who are willing to hire them on the DL.

And they get free healthcare.

I just cant believe you are older than ten.

Well you wanted to brag about the line to get in. If you want to discuss the people coming in, I'm more than willing. And they get free healthcare in our emergency rooms. You want to talk about tort reform. Drop in the bucket compared to the free healthcare you provide illegals.

PS. Look into all the people/corporations leaving. Haloburton moved its HQ to the Arab Emerits. Took their Bush tax cuts out of the country. No trickle down there.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

That stuff about government making your personal decisions is bs.
REALLY? Aren't you advocating that the government force every American to buy insurance under penalty of fine?

I hope you know that. That's just Rush/Fox puttin the fear in you about liberal/progressives.
Progressives believe in big government, little people. Socialism. Big Spending. Equalization. Thats scary. And I dont listen to Rush- he is an idiot.

When you get into the specifics, that's just downright a distraction to the real problems.

The issues are these.

1. The insurance companies are FOR PROFIT and they are gouging us and we need to put them in check.
Agreed.

It may be better that government run single payer than FOR PROFITS because they are corrupt/greedy.

You are beyond naive. If insurance is not run for profit- why do you think the delivery system will be efficient at all? A single payer system will result in skyrocketing costs, long waits, and rationing- as it has everywhere it has been tried.

2. They are denying people healthcare to maximize their profits.

I agree that some reform is need. But the system works far better than you give it credit for.

3. They aren't covering pre existing conditions.

see number 3

4. Healthcare is not affordable enough and government might need to regulate this.

There are about ten million people that generally need help that can be rendered without the complete transformation of 1/6th of our economy.

There is no question that these things are true. And most likely, you can even argue that these things are ok. I wouldn't be surprised. Republicans/Righties can argue anything. Luckily, we run the government now. This is the New Deal and you righties argued with FDR too.

Your lobbyists have even gotten to many of our Democrats. But we will lean on them and get er done.

God help us. We will destroy a system that works for 200 million+ people.

How many of those 200 million could leave an employer and end up with a pre existing condition that their new employers healthcare provider won't cover?

And most of you who are arguing to "leave your healthcare alone", won't be able to afford it in 10 years.

PS. If I'm 10, I bet you aren't smarter than a 5th grader.

What are good samaritan laws again? HAHAHAHAHA

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Yes, with people who are willing to work for much less than you, and employers/corporations who are willing to hire them on the DL.

And they get free healthcare.

I just cant believe you are older than ten.

Well you wanted to brag about the line to get in. If you want to discuss the people coming in, I'm more than willing. And they get free healthcare in our emergency rooms. You want to talk about tort reform. Drop in the bucket compared to the free healthcare you provide illegals.

Good reason to tackle that issue as well.

PS. Look into all the people/corporations leaving.
I guess they found friendlier business climates.

Haloburton moved its HQ to the Arab Emerits. Took their Bush tax cuts out of the country. No trickle down there.

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

 

[rightwinger]

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

Ummmmm....how did we do with those "pro-business" republicans in control for eight years?

Stock Market lost 33%

Unemployment doubled

Fact is American business is at a disadvantage worldwide because they have to pay healthcare, Nationalized healtcare would be good for all businesses except for the insurance companies who make billions denying coverage

 

[sealybobo]

I just cant believe you are older than ten.

Well you wanted to brag about the line to get in. If you want to discuss the people coming in, I'm more than willing. And they get free healthcare in our emergency rooms. You want to talk about tort reform. Drop in the bucket compared to the free healthcare you provide illegals.

Good reason to tackle that issue as well.

PS. Look into all the people/corporations leaving.
I guess they found friendlier business climates.

Haloburton moved its HQ to the Arab Emerits. Took their Bush tax cuts out of the country. No trickle down there.

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

You don't care that our corporations can't compete globally because they are forced to pay for healthcare. Why aren't you anti corporation? All of the sudden you care about jobs staying in America? You didn't when it was manufacturing, now you cry for the healthcare industry? Don't threaten jobs leaving when we know you want cheap foreign labor regardless. Arguing with righties is like wack a mole. I squash one bad argument, you come up with another, and so on.....

Healthcare providers can leave to another country and we can come up with new providers to pay for them or have the government run healthcare if its too much of a burden on your precious corporations.

And remember, you would fight any regulations that deal with those companies that decide to offshore. And of course they would leave if free trade isn't fair. Every other country protects its labor. Only we haven't since Reagan.

In your world, the corporations make the rules. If they don't get their way, they'll leave. And we wouldn't have a government with the power to regulate them. What's the end game?

 

[sealybobo]

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

Ummmmm....how did we do with those "pro-business" republicans in control for eight years?

Stock Market lost 33%

Unemployment doubled

Fact is American business is at a disadvantage worldwide because they have to pay healthcare, Nationalized healtcare would be good for all businesses except for the insurance companies who make billions denying coverage

They hate having their own arguments thrown back at them.

Fact, this would make our companies more competitive on a global market.

I bet this is a bigger issue than tort reform that they seem to want to focus on.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

Ummmmm....how did we do with those "pro-business" republicans in control for eight years?

Stock Market lost 33%

Unemployment doubled

Fact is American business is at a disadvantage worldwide because they have to pay healthcare, Nationalized healtcare would be good for all businesses except for the insurance companies who make billions denying coverage

In what eight years did Republicans have both the white house and congress?

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Well you wanted to brag about the line to get in. If you want to discuss the people coming in, I'm more than willing. And they get free healthcare in our emergency rooms. You want to talk about tort reform. Drop in the bucket compared to the free healthcare you provide illegals.

Good reason to tackle that issue as well.

PS. Look into all the people/corporations leaving.
I guess they found friendlier business climates.

Haloburton moved its HQ to the Arab Emerits. Took their Bush tax cuts out of the country. No trickle down there.

And with the anti-business climate you dipshit lefties embrace- we'll see a lot more of that. Which of course will increase the perceived need to have government take care of your health insurance needs- business will have left.

You don't care that our corporations can't compete globally because they are forced to pay for healthcare.

I have to continually educate you. Coorporations are not forced to provide healthcare. They choose to.

Why aren't you anti corporation?
Because Im pro-business

All of the sudden you care about jobs staying in America?
We need jobs to stay economically viable.

You didn't when it was manufacturing, now you cry for the healthcare industry? Don't threaten jobs leaving when we know you want cheap foreign labor regardless.

My clothes are pretty affordable....

Arguing with righties is like wack a mole. I squash one bad argument, you come up with another, and so on.....

Buddy- you couldn't find your ass with a search warrant. What are good samaritan laws again? What law forces corporations to provide health insurance?

Healthcare providers can leave to another country and we can come up with new providers to pay for them or have the government run healthcare if its too much of a burden on your precious corporations.

My god. You should be on Tool Academy...

And remember, you would fight any regulations that deal with those companies that decide to offshore. And of course they would leave if free trade isn't fair. Every other country protects its labor. Only we haven't since Reagan.

Oddly enough, we are doing pretty well over the long haul.

In your world, the corporations make the rules. If they don't get their way, they'll leave. And we wouldn't have a government with the power to regulate them. What's the end game?

Whats your argument? And can you please explain why such an erudite and informed thinker such as yourself believes that good samaritan laws compel me to come to your aid? I mean, aside from the obvious....

 

[Harry Dresden]

hey Zona...is the Govt going to cover EVERYONE no matter what their problem,no matter how expensive their treatment (if they have insurance with them, yes.)......is the govt going to send health care workers to someones house to take care of someone who needs professional help (perhaps, depends on the situation).....are they going to cover catastrophic illnesses(yes)....surgeries that cost 6 figures.....are they going to help the elderly cover costs if they need to go to a home OR are they going to ask for their house to be signed over to them(the way the sytem works now is, people give up their hoses or die because of the caps, you do know this right? Bankruptcies, lose houses etc etc).....and one final question.....if this plan that Pelosi thinks is so hot....is that great.....is Congress going to join the peasants and be on this plan also(they already have insurance, why would they, why would you?)....

Health insurance didnt kill anyone, lack of it did. Because of lack of it, bankruptcies happen and so does death.

Grow up indeed.

you dance as well as Rocks Zona....answer post 138....

Dance with that. Every single thing you just mentioned happens now to people with insurance and those insurance companies can drop people for those reasons. How is this fair?

If they have competition, cant not accept you because of pre existing conditions, then we win. Do you think the system works now? If so, stay with your company, pay what you pay and leave the uninsured alone.

This bill has nothing, NOTHING to do with you. Keep your insurance. $$$

hey Fred Zona Astair.....nice dancing ....try answering the fucking question.....is the Govt going to cover those types of ill people i mentioned?.....

 

[Harry Dresden]

quote=Harry Dresden...is the Govt going to cover EVERYONE no matter what their problem,no matter how expensive their treatment ...QUOTE=Zona-if they have insurance with them, yes.
quote=Harry Dresden.....what if they cant afford the Ins...now what?.......

quote=Harry Dresden.....is the govt going to send health care workers to someones house to take care of someone who needs professional help?......... quote=Zona.....perhaps, depends on the situation.....quote=Harry Dresden.....WHOM gets to make that call?

quote=Harry Dresden....are they going to cover catastrophic illnesses and surgeries that cost 6 figures?......quote=Zona.....yes.....quote=Harry Dresden.....over in the other threads the Pro-UHC people were saying NO....expense has got to be figured in...the high cost stuff NO....they said only the "affordable illnesses.....mmmm....

quote=Harry Dresden.......are they going to help the elderly cover costs if they need to go to a home OR are they going to ask for their house to be signed over to them......QUOTE=Zona......the way the sytem works now is, people give up their hoses or die because of the caps, you do know this right? Bankruptcies, lose houses etc etc.......quote=Harry Dresden....that was my question....you did not answer it.....are they going to have to give the Govt their assets to be cared for?....this is the same as a Bankruptcy,only the govt is taking everything......