Reason For Terrorism

[Seraph]

I wasn't talking about the crusades anyway, rather that christianity was spread through the world from Rome, sometimes through peaceful methods but also many times through force. I'm not sure it's a religious reason we are terrorised now, but if muslims want to spread islam i was just saying it's normal for people to want to spread their religion.
But as I say, I'm not so sure that's their reason to bomb us, after all it's not really making anyone into a muslim doing that.

 

[Kalam]

Apparently you don't watch much Arab tv.

I doubt spending a lifetime watching people who are actually mentally retarded could have prepared me for the veritable retardation present in that post of yours. It'd almost be like me telling you that the Holocaust was a defensive measure taken after Jews and other "undesirables" occupied Germany's lebensraum. Or, the Japanese invasion of Manchuria was a justified, defensive response to those damn Manchurians living on top of rightfully Japanese resources.

 

[AllieBaba]

I wasn't talking about the crusades anyway, rather that christianity was spread through the world from Rome, sometimes through peaceful methods but also many times through force. I'm not sure it's a religious reason we are terrorised now, but if muslims want to spread islam i was just saying it's normal for people to want to spread their religion.
But as I say, I'm not so sure that's their reason to bomb us, after all it's not really making anyone into a muslim doing that.

Still not specific enough. Let's have a specific example.

 

[WillowTree]

Ahh I see, that kind of makes sense. A bit like christians did hundreds of years ago all over the world. Well they aren't going to get many converts with their terrorising actions IMO. At least christians has something completely different to offer, islam is just another flavour of christianity.

ahhhh here it comes,, the left wing talking points..

I know, right? How dare anybody refuse to apply a double standard to Christianity and Islam? Psssh. Leftists.

Hello Dung Breath???? HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO does that ring any bells for ya?? welldoit?

 

[Kalam]

"LEGISLATION has been brought by the government of President Mahmoud Amadinejad before the Iranian Majlis that would mandate the death penalty for apostates from Islam. The law’s reach would be worldwide, the legislation says."
Religious Intelligence - News - Iran introduces law that imposes death penalty on converts

Islam, the religion of tolerance.

Where is death mandated as a penalty for apostasy in the Qur'an?

Alliebaba, the poster of retarded irrelevancies.

 

[Iriemon]

I'm sorry for probably sounding stupid, but I wonder if anyone knows why we're being terrorised. I see/hear/read loads about attacking and trying to defeat terrorists, or defending against them but I don't see anything about why they are terrorising us.

If this has already been debated please link me to the thread, so I can understand why we spend so much time and money and forgo so many of our liberties and freedoms in this struggle.

That is a good question worthy more than a simple one liner glib response.

If our goal is to reduce the risk of a terrorist attack, then it is logical to examine what motivates them to 1) be terrorists, and 2) attack us. The goal is not to blame America, but to determine why they do what they do to determine how to undermine it. And anyone who things that the actions of one nation cannot have a conquenence is either a fool or has purposely has their head up their ass.

"Terrorism" is not at heart the problem. Terrorism is a tactic used to achieve goals by a group that doesn't have the resources to have an army and bombers and jets. The real heart of the problem are that people that are willing to engage in terrorist tactics (often requiring kamikazee type suicidal missions).

Unfortunately, this is a complex question. You are not dealing with one person here. We can look at what bin Laden says for some insight on his thinking, but terrorists, and potential terrorists, is not a homogeneous group and like any large group you can expect that many different people have different motivations for different things.

But lets start wth Bin Laden since he is the head, at least figuratively, of AQ. If you study his background, his initial beef was not with the US or even Israel, but with the Saudi Govt. Bin Laden came from a wealthy Saudi family, but because disenchanted with the Saudi government, believing they were corrupt (and he's probably correct). Bin Laden determined that the Saudi Govt had to be overthrown. This got him in hot water with the Saudi Govt, which expelled him.

Bin Laden then turned his ire on the US, particularly after US troops were in Saudi Arabia, and he viewed US dollars and troops as upholding the corrupt Saudi regime. It was about this time when Bin Laden was in Afghanistan in 1996 he issued his fatwa against the US. If believed that if unless he could get the US out of the ME, he could not accomplish his goal of overthrowing the corrupt regimes in places like Saudi Arabia.

Lots of other terrorists (particularly in Palestine) are more motivated by the Israel situation, particularly those in the ME vicitinity. Israel has been a handy vicitimization card of Muslim regimes for a while, and US support of Israel has certainly inflamed anti-US feelings among Muslims. This is particularly true when the US has been viewed as having a very hard line pro-Israel government, like the Bush administration.

The ME is characterized by corrupt governments, and vast disparaty in wealth between the haves and subsistence level existence for everyone else. Any time you have a situation of extreme poverty and despair you have the opportunity for greater support for radicalism.

There is the colonial history of the ME. The arabs are a proud people, who had endured centuries of domination by Christian European powers. That makes them particularly hostile to perception that Western countries (like the US, even though it wasn't a colonial power) are trying to overrun and change their culture.

Finally, in more recent years, there was the US invasion of Iraq, which was perceived to have been unjustified as it was premised on WMDs that Iraq didn't have. The raised perceptions that the US is working as a surrogate for Israel and is trying to dominate their holy land and culture. A number of terrorist groups sprang up in Iraq after the invasion.

There is the religious aspect -- Islam has many tenants that say you should resist against those who attack you. A particularly violent and radical strain of Islam -- Whabbism -- comes from Saudi Arabia and its spread has been funded by the huge about of petrodollars that nation receives.

There are many causes that motivate anti-American hatred that fuels terrorism. This is just some of the more major ones. A true effort to reduce terrorism would involve consideration of these (and other) factors to determine where we can positively influence them.

 

[Kalam]

Hello Dung Breath???? HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO does that ring any bells for ya?? welldoit?

Totally. Somebody tell those Muslims over in Bosnia to quit bitching about that genocide. It's been what, fifteen years?

 

[AllieBaba]

Apparently you don't watch much Arab tv.

I doubt spending a lifetime watching people who are actually mentally retarded could have prepared me for the veritable retardation present in that post of yours. It'd almost be like me telling you that the Holocaust was a defensive measure taken after Jews and other "undesirables" occupied Germany's lebensraum. Or, the Japanese invasion of Manchuria was a justified, defensive response to those damn Manchurians living on top of rightfully Japanese resources.

Do you think the Sudanese are killing Darfurians because the Darfurians meddled in Arab business? How about honor killings? Do those take place because women are meddling in business they shouldn't be meddling in? Or traveling places they shouldn't travel to?

Of course, Arabs believe their business should take them all over the world...the rest of us should just sit on our hands and allow them to do their thing...whatever that may be. What it comes down to is they believe they should be allowed to ride roughshod over the world. In addition they have a religion which speaks to that by allowing lying, butchery, torture, adultery and other immoral behavior if by doing so you can advance Islam.

 

[KittenKoder]

Terrorism evolved from guerrilla warfare, and is not even close to exclusive to the Middle East, nor are all those in the ME terrorists most are just militants. It's a form of attack used to gain publicity and outrage in the hopes of accomplishing a political agenda which is not widely accepted in the area, typically using random violence and what the opponent considers "shocking" to get the message across. A terrorist is someone who just uses that method more than the others and they can be found everywhere, even in the US. It started because of civilization, simply put, but is very complex in reality.The problem is people need to make it counter productive, simply don't give them what they want and terrorism loses it's appeal.

As for the Crusades ... sorry Allie, Kalam is more correct in this one. It was a time when the Roman church was trying to spread it's christian ideals by force, as well as seek out mythical artifacts and such (of which most were in the Arabic countries at the time). This almost ruined the ME, and spurred a bunch of wars there that are still fought today.

 

[WillowTree]

Hello Dung Breath???? HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO does that ring any bells for ya?? welldoit?

Totally. Somebody tell those Muslims over in Bosnia to quit bitching about that genocide. It's been what, fifteen years?

yes,, and while yer at it remind them who saved their bacon whydoncha?

 

[Kalam]

Hello Dung Breath???? HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO does that ring any bells for ya?? welldoit?

Totally. Somebody tell those Muslims over in Bosnia to quit bitching about that genocide. It's been what, fifteen years?

yes,, and while yer at it remind them who saved their bacon whydoncha?

I know. Being assisted by a western nation completely negates the fact that they were being raped and murdered by Christians for their religious beliefs, right?

 

[Seraph]

Thanks Iriemon, that's a more understandable answer.

I don't think we can stop them from attacking us by just attacking them (unless we nuke them all, which simply wont happen), I wish we could find a way to stop them wanting to attack us.

 

[WillowTree]

Totally. Somebody tell those Muslims over in Bosnia to quit bitching about that genocide. It's been what, fifteen years?

yes,, and while yer at it remind them who saved their bacon whydoncha?

I know. Being assisted by a western nation completely negates the fact that they were being raped and murdered by Christians for their religious beliefs, right?

assisted? assisted?

 

[AllieBaba]

Very small group of people, and I don't believe it's going on now. At least I hope not.

BTW, I was a lone voice during the Bosnian conflict. I thought we should go over there and stop it.

 

[Kalam]

yes,, and while yer at it remind them who saved their bacon whydoncha?

I know. Being assisted by a western nation completely negates the fact that they were being raped and murdered by Christians for their religious beliefs, right?

assisted? assisted?

Justify away.

 

[Kalam]

Very small group of people, and I don't believe it's going on now. At least I hope not.

BTW, I was a lone voice during the Bosnian conflict. I thought we should go over there and stop it.

Half a million raped or murdered. Why oppose it? They made some progress towards eradicating Islam, after all.

 

[Bfgrn]

I'm sorry for probably sounding stupid, but I wonder if anyone knows why we're being terrorised. I see/hear/read loads about attacking and trying to defeat terrorists, or defending against them but I don't see anything about why they are terrorising us.

If this has already been debated please link me to the thread, so I can understand why we spend so much time and money and forgo so many of our liberties and freedoms in this struggle.

Ron Paul tried to explain it, but got attacked by "patriots"...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD7dnFDdwu0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD7dnFDdwu0[/ame]

And we must face the fact that the United States is neither omnipotent or omniscient - that we are only six percent of the world's population - that we cannot impose our will upon the other ninety-four percent of mankind - that we cannot right every wrong or reverse each adversity - and that therefore there cannot be an American solution to every world problem.”
President John F. Kennedy

 

[AllieBaba]

I did oppose it.

Still doesn't justify terrorism in the US.

 

[WillowTree]

I did oppose it.

Still doesn't justify terrorism in the US.

the gratitude is underwhelming hey?

 

[Article 15]

us presence in the middle east......

Ding! Ding! Ding!

And what do we have for the winner, Johnny?

Why it's a first class ticket to Red China where he can kill babies with the rest of the rational ... erm ... I mean blame America first crowd.