Real History: The Costs of Not Ending WWII

[regent]

The allies gave Germany terms at the end of WWI, and 20 years later Germany was ready to go again. WWII it was unconditional surrender and Germany is still at peace after 70 years.

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC, Germany had already surrendered, and Japan would surrender three months later.

 

[Camp]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2815901/posts

Note the date and name. Three days before Pearl Harbor the contingency plans for the military in Europe and how the war would be fought were published by the OP's often used source. Hitler used the article in his Declaration of War against the United States.

Note that after whining and carping in three or four posts, this dolt and Roosevelt-apologist, has not been able to offer a single example of anything........anything.....in the thread that is not 100%, totally, absolutely correct and accurate.




The only conclusion is that every one of my facts is so stipulated:



2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

I responded to this claim by bringing up the North African, Italian and Southern France campaigns. You know so little about WWII or are in such support of Hitler that you would have freed up millions of German troops and given needed time for them to regroup and rebuild.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The allies gave Germany terms at the end of WWI, and 20 years later Germany was ready to go again. WWII it was unconditional surrender and Germany is still at peace after 70 years.

The ones most at peace are the 100,000 Americans who died so that FDR could offer their sacrifice to Stalin.

Now....watch me grind you to dust in this post:

Consider the decision Roosevelt had to make: Agree to Stalin's demand for 'unconditional surrender'...which military experts agreed would harden the German's resolve..or accept surrender with the aid of anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans.



....why not simply accept the offers of anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans....who had been trying to open communication with the Allies since the late 30s????



Think about that decision.







9. In order to deny that the policy, 'unconditional surrender,' was advantageous, even necessary, only to the Soviet Communists, one must argue that America could not agree to give anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans, who were helpful to the United States, any special consideration after they deposed Hitler, and surrendered.



But we did exactly that for lots of Germans!



a. Due to Roosevelt, we had no spying infrastucture in Russia, and needed same after the war. Germans did....and the anti-Nazi, anti-communist Germans became our CIA.

"Gehlen Organization or Gehlen Org was an intelligence agency established in June 1946 by U.S. occupation authorities in the United States Zone of Germany, and consisted of former members of the 12th Department of the German Army General Staff (Foreign Armies East, or FHO). It carries the name of Wehrmacht Major general Reinhard Gehlen, head of the German military intelligence in the Eastern Frontduring World War II....

The Org was for many years the only eyes and ears of the CIA on the ground in the Soviet Bloc nations during the Cold War. The CIA kept close tabs on the Gehlen group: the Org supplied the manpower while the CIA supplied the material needs for clandestine operations, including funding, cars and airplanes.

Every German POW returning from Soviet captivity to West Germany between 1947 and 1955 was interviewed by Org agents. Those returnees who were forced to work in Soviet industries and construction and were willing to participate, represented an incomparable source of information, a post-war, up-to-date picture of the Soviet empire as it evolved.[2]"
. Gehlen Organization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




b. Need I mention Wernher von Braun, and the German rocket scientists who aided America post-war, and became NASA?



Of course the United States could have accepted surrender....years before 1945.
But that would have meant insulting the world's most prolific homicidal killer.

 

[PoliticalChic]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2815901/posts

Note the date and name. Three days before Pearl Harbor the contingency plans for the military in Europe and how the war would be fought were published by the OP's often used source. Hitler used the article in his Declaration of War against the United States.

Note that after whining and carping in three or four posts, this dolt and Roosevelt-apologist, has not been able to offer a single example of anything........anything.....in the thread that is not 100%, totally, absolutely correct and accurate.




The only conclusion is that every one of my facts is so stipulated:



2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

I responded to this claim by bringing up the North African, Italian and Southern France campaigns. You know so little about WWII or are in such support of Hitler that you would have freed up millions of German troops and given needed time for them to regroup and rebuild.

You can run, but you can't hide.

These are the facts that I presented.

1. The Soviet Communists had no regard for the lives of their own citizens or troops.

2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

3. Reversing the position of previous Presidents and Sec'ys of State, Franklin Roosevelt rushed to recognize Stalin's slaughterhouse just a few months after his first election.

4. He followed this with innumerable actions in support of Stalin, to the detriment of American military efforts.

5. Not only was Roosevlelt's administration rife with Soviet spies, but he accepted them with open arms....even having one live in the White House!!!

6. Every Russian sent over by Stalin was a spy.

7. The only advantage of 'unconditional surrender,' as opposed to 'surrender, with terms,' was to Stalin. He demanded the same for Japan, so neither stood in the way of international socialism post war.

8. After the war, we gave exactly the sort of consideration.....right up to citizenship.....to Germans.....offering save would have saved almost 200,000 American troop's lives.



Your feeble attempt to ignore them proves them to be the case.

Now...back under your rock.

 

[Camp]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2815901/posts

Note the date and name. Three days before Pearl Harbor the contingency plans for the military in Europe and how the war would be fought were published by the OP's often used source. Hitler used the article in his Declaration of War against the United States.

Note that after whining and carping in three or four posts, this dolt and Roosevelt-apologist, has not been able to offer a single example of anything........anything.....in the thread that is not 100%, totally, absolutely correct and accurate.




The only conclusion is that every one of my facts is so stipulated:



2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

I responded to this claim by bringing up the North African, Italian and Southern France campaigns. You know so little about WWII or are in such support of Hitler that you would have freed up millions of German troops and given needed time for them to regroup and rebuild.

You can run, but you can't hide.

These are the facts that I presented.


2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.
!

You are not responding with an answer to the questions and challenges you were given. You are simply cutting and pasting a menagerie of non-related topics to the specific challenge.
You are suggesting, rather insisting, it was possible to have a conditional surrender in 1942 or '43 without giving an explanation for the factors I presented that made that scenario impossible.
Instead of deflecting away from the question you are being asked with an array of diverting statements and questions, how about if you answer the questions you were given and skipped over and ignored.
If you answer any of the inquiries you have been asked and evaded answering, we can move on to a new one. Perhaps we can ask you who the allies would have made a conditional surrender with. No one you have mentioned had anything resembling the authority to make such a surrender.

 

[PoliticalChic]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2815901/posts

Note the date and name. Three days before Pearl Harbor the contingency plans for the military in Europe and how the war would be fought were published by the OP's often used source. Hitler used the article in his Declaration of War against the United States.

Note that after whining and carping in three or four posts, this dolt and Roosevelt-apologist, has not been able to offer a single example of anything........anything.....in the thread that is not 100%, totally, absolutely correct and accurate.




The only conclusion is that every one of my facts is so stipulated:



2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

I responded to this claim by bringing up the North African, Italian and Southern France campaigns. You know so little about WWII or are in such support of Hitler that you would have freed up millions of German troops and given needed time for them to regroup and rebuild.

You can run, but you can't hide.

These are the facts that I presented.


2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.
!

You are not responding with an answer to the questions and challenges you were given. You are simply cutting and pasting a menagerie of non-related topics to the specific challenge.
You are suggesting, rather insisting, it was possible to have a conditional surrender in 1942 or '43 without giving an explanation for the factors I presented that made that scenario impossible.
Instead of deflecting away from the question you are being asked with an array of diverting statements and questions, how about if you answer the questions you were given and skipped over and ignored.
If you answer any of the inquiries you have been asked and evaded answering, we can move on to a new one. Perhaps we can ask you who the allies would have made a conditional surrender with. No one you have mentioned had anything resembling the authority to make such a surrender.

Maybe you missed this review of the facts that I presented:

These are the facts that I presented.

1. The Soviet Communists had no regard for the lives of their own citizens or troops.

2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

3. Reversing the position of previous Presidents and Sec'ys of State, Franklin Roosevelt rushed to recognize Stalin's slaughterhouse just a few months after his first election.

4. He followed this with innumerable actions in support of Stalin, to the detriment of American military efforts.

5. Not only was Roosevlelt's administration rife with Soviet spies, but he accepted them with open arms....even having one live in the White House!!!

6. Every Russian sent over by Stalin was a spy.

7. The only advantage of 'unconditional surrender,' as opposed to 'surrender, with terms,' was to Stalin. He demanded the same for Japan, so neither stood in the way of international socialism post war.

8. After the war, we gave exactly the sort of consideration.....right up to citizenship.....to Germans.....offering save would have saved almost 200,000 American troop's lives.





Any you can prove false or inaccurate?

Didn't think so.

 

[Syriusly]

Just that PC even uses the term 'Real History' in a thread is hilarious.

PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Already examined, PC,and dismissed as in error and misexamined.

Gehlen and Braun are interesting and have nothing to do with your thread.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Just that PC even uses the term 'Real History' in a thread is hilarious.

PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead.

So.....lying is what you equate with responding to facts??

You must be a Liberal, huh?

 

[Syriusly]

Just that PC even uses the term 'Real History' in a thread is hilarious.

PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead.

So.....lying is what you equate with responding to facts??

You must be a Liberal, huh?

As I said-
PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead

Your posts have only a slight relationship with 'facts'

 

[PoliticalChic]

Just that PC even uses the term 'Real History' in a thread is hilarious.

PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead.

So.....lying is what you equate with responding to facts??

You must be a Liberal, huh?

As I said-
PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead

Your posts have only a slight relationship with 'facts'

You meant as you lied.

No problem.



I dare you to find any posts that have 'only a slight relationship with 'facts.' Better not...you don't have the education for such an attempt.

 

[PoliticalChic]

10. Joseph Stalin was far more farsighted and clever than either Adolph Hitler, or Franklin Roosevelt. He was allied with both, at one time or another, and used both to further world communist domination.



Stalin looked toward goals that included spreading his version of international socialism throughout Europe, post-war, and toward this end needed any possible German resistance obliterated.

He used America and the Allies for this purpose....FDR made it easy to do that.



The Allies had the contacts with the anti-Nazi resistance in every other nation....except Germany.
Stalin forbid any talks with anti-Nazi Germans.



a. The Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance. Following the Soviet orders, only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which obviously prolonged the war; the German army, which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies, would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.


b. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force) directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.
The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




c. "Archival evidence indicates that the Soviet’s wanted the war to continue long enough for them to conquer Eastern Europe and in order for Germany to be utterly destroyed or “pastoralized” which was called for in the Morgenthau Plan which was actually written by Soviet spy Harry Dexter White. The Soviets were also clamoring for a “second front” in France in order to deflect the allies out of Italy and the Balkans which was too close to Russia."
Chuck Morse Speaks: The Canaris Cover-up

 

[Syriusly]

Just that PC even uses the term 'Real History' in a thread is hilarious.

PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead.

So.....lying is what you equate with responding to facts??

You must be a Liberal, huh?

As I said-
PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead

Your posts have only a slight relationship with 'facts'

You meant as you lied.

No problem.



I dare you to find any posts that have 'only a slight relationship with 'facts.' Better not...you don't have the education for such an attempt.

Oh I am not even going to bother wasting my time again pointing out that the BS you rely upon is pure BS.

You just ignore any fact which you don't agree with.

I have ridden in that rodeo before- no need to do so again.

So I will confine my posts to mocking why you prefer Hitler to Roosevelt.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Just that PC even uses the term 'Real History' in a thread is hilarious.

PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead.

So.....lying is what you equate with responding to facts??

You must be a Liberal, huh?

As I said-
PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead

Your posts have only a slight relationship with 'facts'

You meant as you lied.

No problem.



I dare you to find any posts that have 'only a slight relationship with 'facts.' Better not...you don't have the education for such an attempt.

Oh I am not even going to bother wasting my time again pointing out that the BS you rely upon is pure BS.

You just ignore any fact which you don't agree with.

I have ridden in that rodeo before- no need to do so again.

So I will confine my posts to mocking why you prefer Hitler to Roosevelt.

"Oh I am not even going to bother wasting my time again..."

Stop lying.

You wish you had the ability to find any flaws in my posts.



Let's prove it.
These are the facts that I've posted:

1. The Soviet Communists had no regard for the lives of their own citizens or troops.

2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

3. Reversing the position of previous Presidents and Sec'ys of State, Franklin Roosevelt rushed to recognize Stalin's slaughterhouse just a few months after his first election.

4. He followed this with innumerable actions in support of Stalin, to the detriment of American military efforts.

5. Not only was Roosevlelt's administration rife with Soviet spies, but he accepted them with open arms....even having one live in the White House!!!

6. Every Russian sent over by Stalin was a spy.

7. The only advantage of 'unconditional surrender,' as opposed to 'surrender, with terms,' was to Stalin. He demanded the same for Japan, so neither stood in the way of international socialism post war.

8. After the war, we gave exactly the sort of consideration.....right up to citizenship.....to Germans.....offering save would have saved almost 200,000 American troop's lives.

9. While the Allies worked with and supported the anti-Nazi resistance in every country.....except the one that Stalin forbid them to, Roosevelt had SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force) author a directive prohibiting activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime. Think about that.

10. Stalin demanded a 'second front' in western Europe, not via Italy...which we already conquored....so the Red Army could occupy Eastern Europe. Even Eisenhower agreed it was foolish...until Roosevelt put pressure on him. All for Stalin.

11. Stalin had Soviet spy Harry Dexter White, in the Roosevelt administration, write up the 'unconditional surrender' plan. And Roosevelt rubber-stamped it. After all,....got to obey orders.



Best not 'waste your time'.....I'm never wrong.

 

[Syriusly]

Just that PC even uses the term 'Real History' in a thread is hilarious.

PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead.

So.....lying is what you equate with responding to facts??

You must be a Liberal, huh?

As I said-
PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead

Your posts have only a slight relationship with 'facts'

You meant as you lied.

No problem.



I dare you to find any posts that have 'only a slight relationship with 'facts.' Better not...you don't have the education for such an attempt.

Oh I am not even going to bother wasting my time again pointing out that the BS you rely upon is pure BS.

You just ignore any fact which you don't agree with.

I have ridden in that rodeo before- no need to do so again.

So I will confine my posts to mocking why you prefer Hitler to Roosevelt.

"Oh I am not even going to bother wasting my time again..."

Stop lying.
.

LOL- if you were really to stop lying, you would never be able to post again.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Hmmmm......there is a certain...'consistency' among the low-lifes who endorse Liberalism, Roosevelt, and and the totalitarian outlook.

The same sneering Liberal who posted this comment about the 100 million slaughtered by Stalin..

When the shocking fact of the slaughter was brought to the attention of a resident Leftist, his shrug came out this way, as a sneer:

"Sure it wasn't 100 billion?"
FDR Admiration Society



...just commented 'funny' on the post which revealed this:

"....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died – a startling figure today – between D day[June 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich?

135,000 more American soldiers, sons, fathers, brothers..
...who would never be celebrated, welcomed home as heroes,
....would have danced in Times Square.....

 

[PoliticalChic]

So.....lying is what you equate with responding to facts??

You must be a Liberal, huh?

As I said-
PC is still upset that the United States dared to fight Hitler- and didn't spend the lives of millions of American soldiers to defeat Stalin instead

Your posts have only a slight relationship with 'facts'

You meant as you lied.

No problem.



I dare you to find any posts that have 'only a slight relationship with 'facts.' Better not...you don't have the education for such an attempt.

Oh I am not even going to bother wasting my time again pointing out that the BS you rely upon is pure BS.

You just ignore any fact which you don't agree with.

I have ridden in that rodeo before- no need to do so again.

So I will confine my posts to mocking why you prefer Hitler to Roosevelt.

"Oh I am not even going to bother wasting my time again..."

Stop lying.
.

LOL- if you were really to stop lying, you would never be able to post again.

Illustrative of what I said about you, you can't point to a single item of mine that isn't 100% accurate and correct.

 

[PoliticalChic]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2815901/posts

Note the date and name. Three days before Pearl Harbor the contingency plans for the military in Europe and how the war would be fought were published by the OP's often used source. Hitler used the article in his Declaration of War against the United States.

Note that after whining and carping in three or four posts, this dolt and Roosevelt-apologist, has not been able to offer a single example of anything........anything.....in the thread that is not 100%, totally, absolutely correct and accurate.




The only conclusion is that every one of my facts is so stipulated:



2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

I responded to this claim by bringing up the North African, Italian and Southern France campaigns. You know so little about WWII or are in such support of Hitler that you would have freed up millions of German troops and given needed time for them to regroup and rebuild.

You can run, but you can't hide.

These are the facts that I presented.


2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.
!

You are not responding with an answer to the questions and challenges you were given. You are simply cutting and pasting a menagerie of non-related topics to the specific challenge.
You are suggesting, rather insisting, it was possible to have a conditional surrender in 1942 or '43 without giving an explanation for the factors I presented that made that scenario impossible.
Instead of deflecting away from the question you are being asked with an array of diverting statements and questions, how about if you answer the questions you were given and skipped over and ignored.
If you answer any of the inquiries you have been asked and evaded answering, we can move on to a new one. Perhaps we can ask you who the allies would have made a conditional surrender with. No one you have mentioned had anything resembling the authority to make such a surrender.

"Perhaps we can ask you who the allies would have made a conditional surrender with. No one you have mentioned had anything resembling the authority to make such a surrender."

How nice of you to admit to your ignorance!

Now....take notes:

11. Under Stalin's orders, backed by Roosevelt, Eisenhower was not allowed to offer aid to the anti-Nazi, anti-communist German resistance in the Wehrmacht, or the Abwehr....


On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."


a. Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?

That's right: German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
"The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman



b. Allen Dulles, first civilian to head the CIA, and its longest serving director. In "Germany's Underground: The Anti-Nazi Resistance," Dulles wrote of that the German was the only anti-Nazi underground not supported by the United States. (p.22).

On page 140, Dulles states "The plotters (anti-Nazi German resistance)....were told clearly and repeatedly that we had made common cause with Russia...." as the reason they were frozen out.



c. The NYTimes told the same story, March 18, 1946: "Full Story of Anti-Hitler Plot Shows That Allies Refused To Assist."




Time for deep thinking, here: who would have benefitted from extending the war until Germany was ground to dust? Right, Stalin.

And to whose detriment was 3-4-or 7 more years of warfare?


What was foremost in FDR's mind....saving the lives of American soldiers, or worming his way into the good graces of the homicidal maniac, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin?

 

[Camp]

2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

These are the facts that I presented.


2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

Time for deep thinking, here: who would have benefitted from extending the war until Germany was ground to dust? Right, Stalin.

And to whose detriment was 3-4-or 7 more years of warfare?


What was foremost in FDR's mind....saving the lives of American soldiers, or worming his way into the good graces of the homicidal maniac, Joseph 'Koba' Stalin?
[/QUOTE]

It is easy to make the mistake of thinking America was at war with Germany for four years. 1941 to 1945. History requires the understanding of dates. War was declared by the Americans and Germans on Dec. 11, 1941. Only three weeks of 1941 were war dates. The Germans surrendered on May 7, 1945. Only five months of 1945 were war dates. The USA time frame for war was two and a half years in actual time at war with Germany. Start to finish, 2 1/2 years. The OP blames FDR for not shortening the war and ending it 3, 4, or even 7 years, in other words, before the USA was even in the war.

PoliticalChic insists that Roosevelt could have somehow convinced Germany to conclude the war and even surrender two years before the actual surrender took place. The problem with her claim is that two years before the end of the war is May of 1942. At that time. the Russians were in retreat. The allies were fighting Rommel in North Africa and in the Pacific, the US forces were being defeated by the Japanese at Corregidor and Bataan. England was being overwhelmed by the German air force and in retreat in Asia against the Japanese.

Once these factors are considered, it is easy to understand how ridiculous this misinformed PoliticalChic is. No one in the world was in position by themselves or as allies to demand anything from Germany. Germany was winning and had both the UK and the USSR on the ropes.