Real History: The Costs of Not Ending WWII

[The Great Goose]

Now.....about 'The Costs of Not Ending WWII'.......


4. Franklin Roosevelt aligned this nation with Joseph Stalin and Soviet communism within months of his election, in 1933.
Taken by itself, it might mean very little, perhaps simply a magnanimous gesture.

But numerous other actions by that President lead to in inexplicable conclusion: Roosevelt had an inordinate fondness for Stalin and his homicidal, pathological regime.


Perhaps the most egregious is that Roosevelt obeyed Stalin's instructions to forbid the surrender of Nazi Germany.....which might have been accomplished...years earlier than V-E Day, May 8,1945.


5. What was the actual cost of allowing the war to go on for several years more than necessary?

"....over one hundred thirty-five thousand American GIs died – a startling figure today – between D day[June 6, 1944] and V-E day,[May 8, 1945]...."
So did the Red Army really singlehandedly defeat the Third Reich?



135,000 more American soldiers, sons, fathers, brothers..
...who would never be celebrated, welcomed home as heroes,
....would have danced in Times Square.....



a. "World War 2 ended with the unconditional surrender of the Axis powers. On 8 May 1945, the Allies accepted Germany's surrender, about a week after Adolf Hitler had committed suicide. VE Day – Victory in Europe celebrates the end of the Second World War on 8 May 1945."
When did World War II end? - Primary Homework Help www.primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk/war/end.html







Consider, arguendo, the savings in American and other Allied lives had the conclusion of the war been accomplished in the late 30s or early 40s.





The only loser would have been world communism.

Its all about envy. The far left loathes good looking people. Of course they want them killed.

It all stems from envy. National socialism was a defensive reaction against envious people. When have you ever met a far leftist who wasnt narcissist?

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. What is the excuse for submitting to Stalin's demands for 'unconditional surrender'?
This:
"But the USSR was our ally against Hitler! "


"No. The USSR was not our ally. It was our secret master-manipulator. We were secretly master-manipulated, not into defeating the Nazis, who, but for the de facto Soviet occupation of Washington, I am now persuaded could have been eliminated in 1943, but rather into decimating, obliterating, Germany, Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire. Japan, very much too, for that matter, in the East."
West, "American Betrayal," p.277



If the above is correct....two years worth of deaths eliminated simply by accepting Germany's surrender.

" The USSR was not our ally. It was our secret master-manipulator...."

Any proof?

Yup:

a. The first Soviet to defector, Victor Kravchenko, revealed this about Russians in America during the war:

"....Victor Kravchenko appeared before the committee, speaking in rapid-fire Russian and occasionally switching to heavily accented, balky English. He told the committee that "every responsible representative of the Soviet government in the United States may be regarded as an economic or political spy," and that no Soviet citizen arrived in the U.S. without a "specific assignment" to collect secret documents." L'AFFAIRE FRAVCHENKO

 

[The Great Goose]

Pc has some valid points.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Pc has some valid points.

I'm just gettin' started!

 

[regent]

More "I think" history. The beauty of "I think" history one can change history to anything the writer wants. Added bonus features of "I think" is one is also given the power to label ideologies, philosophies, and motives to fit their "I think" history. But the real beauty is that one can cut and paste what traditional historians have written and bingo it can be cited with footnotes just like the big boys.

 

[Camp]

DDE and FDR did not give into Stalin's demand for a western front in 1942 and 1943. An invasion would have failed, and the war would have continued for years. PC is on Stalin's side.

American dead came to about 400,000. The Soviets lost about 20,000,000 dead.

The OP conveniently ignores the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, Southern France and the bombing campaigns. In addition, she fails to enter the war in the Pacific into her equations. No matter how many times she is reminded, for some reason, she does not like to take actual facts into account. A very common method of presenting conspiracy theories

 

[PoliticalChic]

More "I think" history. The beauty of "I think" history one can change history to anything the writer wants. Added bonus features of "I think" is one is also given the power to label ideologies, philosophies, and motives to fit their "I think" history. But the real beauty is that one can cut and paste what traditional historians have written and bingo it can be cited with footnotes just like the big boys.

1. "More "I think" history."

Really?

With all of it supported with links, quotes, documentation?


2. "But the real beauty is that one can cut and paste what traditional historians have written and bingo it can be cited with footnotes just like the big boys."

Any who use the term 'cut and paste' as a pejorative are simply looking for a way to dodge the truth provided.
That would be you,reggie, you coward.


3. The use of cut and paste with the supporting links is both scholarly and ethical.

Now...you Leftists, on the other hand, plagiarize the NYTimes, MSNBC, the DNC, leftist academics.....
...and never provide the source.


4. So....when considering the motivation for your bogus post, it becomes clear that the truth that I provide is as undeniable as it is hurtful to you who have been indoctrinated, and never considered the facts.

That's the truth, isn't it.

 

[PoliticalChic]

DDE and FDR did not give into Stalin's demand for a western front in 1942 and 1943. An invasion would have failed, and the war would have continued for years. PC is on Stalin's side.

American dead came to about 400,000. The Soviets lost about 20,000,000 dead.

The OP conveniently ignores the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, Southern France and the bombing campaigns. In addition, she fails to enter the war in the Pacific into her equations. No matter how many times she is reminded, for some reason, she does not like to take actual facts into account. A very common method of presenting conspiracy theories

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

 

[Camp]

DDE and FDR did not give into Stalin's demand for a western front in 1942 and 1943. An invasion would have failed, and the war would have continued for years. PC is on Stalin's side.

American dead came to about 400,000. The Soviets lost about 20,000,000 dead.

The OP conveniently ignores the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, Southern France and the bombing campaigns. In addition, she fails to enter the war in the Pacific into her equations. No matter how many times she is reminded, for some reason, she does not like to take actual facts into account. A very common method of presenting conspiracy theories

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

I have and others have repeatedly. You just repeat the same nonsense over and over. Your theories get destroyed and debunked and proven to be nothing more than flimsy conspiracy theories. You wait awhile and resubmit them under different thread titles and a reshuffling of the cut and paste. I am still waiting for responses from questions and challenges I made to you in several recent threads. I am still waiting for you to respond to a very old question about one of your main sources. Who or what was Chesley Manly?

 

[Camp]

6. What is the excuse for submitting to Stalin's demands for 'unconditional surrender'?
This:
"But the USSR was our ally against Hitler! "


"No. The USSR was not our ally. It was our secret master-manipulator. We were secretly master-manipulated, not into defeating the Nazis, who, but for the de facto Soviet occupation of Washington, I am now persuaded could have been eliminated in 1943, but rather into decimating, obliterating, Germany, Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire. Japan, very much too, for that matter, in the East."
West, "American Betrayal," p.277

The author of this "source" and cite is not a military historian. West is not a historian at all. She is a political commentator who published a conspiracy theory based on and using as a primary source, a book published by front Chesley Manly, for a well known right wing Germany supporter and isolationist newspaper owner.
The above quote submitted by the OP as fact, is nothing more than an opinion by an uncredentialed political commentator with a right wing agenda.

 

[PoliticalChic]

DDE and FDR did not give into Stalin's demand for a western front in 1942 and 1943. An invasion would have failed, and the war would have continued for years. PC is on Stalin's side.

American dead came to about 400,000. The Soviets lost about 20,000,000 dead.

The OP conveniently ignores the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, Southern France and the bombing campaigns. In addition, she fails to enter the war in the Pacific into her equations. No matter how many times she is reminded, for some reason, she does not like to take actual facts into account. A very common method of presenting conspiracy theories

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

I have and others have repeatedly. You just repeat the same nonsense over and over. Your theories get destroyed and debunked and proven to be nothing more than flimsy conspiracy theories. You wait awhile and resubmit them under different thread titles and a reshuffling of the cut and paste. I am still waiting for responses from questions and challenges I made to you in several recent threads. I am still waiting for you to respond to a very old question about one of your main sources. Who or what was Chesley Manly?

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

Stop dancing around with your lies, and list any that aren't accurate, correct, and documented.


Waiting.

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. What is the excuse for submitting to Stalin's demands for 'unconditional surrender'?
This:
"But the USSR was our ally against Hitler! "


"No. The USSR was not our ally. It was our secret master-manipulator. We were secretly master-manipulated, not into defeating the Nazis, who, but for the de facto Soviet occupation of Washington, I am now persuaded could have been eliminated in 1943, but rather into decimating, obliterating, Germany, Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire. Japan, very much too, for that matter, in the East."
West, "American Betrayal," p.277

The author of this "source" and cite is not a military historian. West is not a historian at all. She is a political commentator who published a conspriracy theorie based on and using as a main source, a book published by front Cheley Manly, for a well known right wing Germany supporter and isolationist newspaper owner.
The above quote submitted by the OP as fact, is nothing more than an opinion by an uncredentialed political commentator with a right wing agenda.

"The author of this "source" and cite is not a military historian."

Well, at least West isn't a pretender, like you.

So the best you can do isn't to deny or refute the facts....

...it's to claim that the individual who presented the facts isn't to your liking.



The fact remains unchallenged.

And that, pal, is comedy gold.

 

[PoliticalChic]

More 'real history' rather than the hagiography offered by Roosevelt lap-dogs.

Could it be that the Soviet Communists were higher in Roosevelt's estimation than were American soldiers????

There is some indicia of that view:

7. For Roosevelt, being a Soviet spy was nothing to be concerted about: he accepted Stalin's spies with open arms!

As Hitler marched into Poland, Whittaker Chambers, converted communist spy, arranged a private meeting with Adolf Berle, President Roosevelt’s assistant Sec’y of State. Chambers detailed the Communist espionage network, naming at least two dozen Soviet spies in Roosevelt’s administration, including Alger Hiss.

Berle reported this to Roosevelt, who laughed, and told Berle to 'go f--- himself.' Arthur Herman, "Joseph McCarthy: Reexaming the Life and Legacy of America’s Most Hated Senator," p. 60

No action was taken, and in fact, Roosevelt promoted Hiss.



To get an ideas as to how intimately involved Stalin's spies were in Roosevelt's administration, there is Harry Hopkins:


a. Life magazine ran a spread on Harry Hopkins on September 22, 1941, calling his a one-man cabinet to Roosevelt. In fact, he lived at the White House, in the Lincoln Bedroom, from May 1940 to December 1943....[Hopkins] has the greatest influence who has easiest access to the Chief-of-State's ear." LIFE, p. 93.



b. Harry Hopkins,- FDR's alter ego, co-president, or Rasputin, "...the closest and most influential adviser to President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II, was a Soviet agent." and “the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States.”
The Treachery Of Harry Hopkins


Let's hear the whining from the lap-dogs.

 

[Camp]

DDE and FDR did not give into Stalin's demand for a western front in 1942 and 1943. An invasion would have failed, and the war would have continued for years. PC is on Stalin's side.

American dead came to about 400,000. The Soviets lost about 20,000,000 dead.

The OP conveniently ignores the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, Southern France and the bombing campaigns. In addition, she fails to enter the war in the Pacific into her equations. No matter how many times she is reminded, for some reason, she does not like to take actual facts into account. A very common method of presenting conspiracy theories

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

I have and others have repeatedly. You just repeat the same nonsense over and over. Your theories get destroyed and debunked and proven to be nothing more than flimsy conspiracy theories. You wait awhile and resubmit them under different thread titles and a reshuffling of the cut and paste. I am still waiting for responses from questions and challenges I made to you in several recent threads. I am still waiting for you to respond to a very old question about one of your main sources. Who or what was Chesley Manly?

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

Stop dancing around with your lies, and list any that aren't accurate, correct, and documented.


Waiting.

I have. You just use your usual method of not answering by moving on with a new cut and paste menagerie.
You will change the subject and not answer the questions. Allow them to linger in what you figure is a dormant state, and pull them out of your ass in a later thread.
You will not answer the question about Manley because you know that name was a main voice of Hitler and Germany in American propaganda during the 1939's and early '40's.

 

[PoliticalChic]

DDE and FDR did not give into Stalin's demand for a western front in 1942 and 1943. An invasion would have failed, and the war would have continued for years. PC is on Stalin's side.

American dead came to about 400,000. The Soviets lost about 20,000,000 dead.

The OP conveniently ignores the campaigns in North Africa, Italy, Southern France and the bombing campaigns. In addition, she fails to enter the war in the Pacific into her equations. No matter how many times she is reminded, for some reason, she does not like to take actual facts into account. A very common method of presenting conspiracy theories

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

I have and others have repeatedly. You just repeat the same nonsense over and over. Your theories get destroyed and debunked and proven to be nothing more than flimsy conspiracy theories. You wait awhile and resubmit them under different thread titles and a reshuffling of the cut and paste. I am still waiting for responses from questions and challenges I made to you in several recent threads. I am still waiting for you to respond to a very old question about one of your main sources. Who or what was Chesley Manly?

So.....how come you can't find anything in my posts that's incorrect or inaccurate?

Stop dancing around with your lies, and list any that aren't accurate, correct, and documented.


Waiting.

I have. You just use your usual method of not answering by moving on with a new cut and paste menagerie.
You will change the subject and not answer the questions. Allow them to linger in what you figure is a dormant state, and pull them out of your ass in a later thread.
You will not answer the question about Manley because you know that name was a main voice of Hitler and Germany in American propaganda during the 1939's and early '40's.

So the best you can do isn't to deny or refute the facts....

...it's to claim that the individual who presented the facts isn't to your liking.

Who cares whether you give your "OK" to the individual who provides the facts.

The facts remain unchallenged.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your facts have been challenged and shown to be in error.

PC, you are lying again and this thread should be removed to the badlands.

 

[Camp]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2815901/posts

Note the date and name. Three days before Pearl Harbor the contingency plans for the military in Europe and how the war would be fought were published by the OP's often used source. Hitler used the article in his Declaration of War against the United States.

 

[PoliticalChic]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2815901/posts

Note the date and name. Three days before Pearl Harbor the contingency plans for the military in Europe and how the war would be fought were published by the OP's often used source. Hitler used the article in his Declaration of War against the United States.

Note that after whining and carping in three or four posts, this dolt and Roosevelt-apologist, has not been able to offer a single example of anything........anything.....in the thread that is not 100%, totally, absolutely correct and accurate.




The only conclusion is that every one of my facts is so stipulated:

1. The Soviet Communists had no regard for the lives of their own citizens or troops.

2. If Roosevelt brought the war to a conclusion two years before it did, 135, 000 or more American soldier's lives would have been saved.

3. Reversing the position of previous Presidents and Sec'ys of State, Franklin Roosevelt rushed to recognize Stalin's slaughterhouse just a few months after his first election.

4. He followed this with innumerable actions in support of Stalin, to the detriment of American military efforts.

5. Not only was Roosevlelt's administration rife with Soviet spies, but he accepted them with open arms....even having one live in the White House!!!

6. Every Russian sent over by Stalin was a spy.

7. The only advantage of 'unconditional surrender,' as opposed to 'surrender, with terms,' was to Stalin. He demanded the same for Japan, so neither stood in the way of international socialism post war.

 

[JakeStarkey]

All of PC's points have been rebutted here and in dozens of threads she has started similar to this one.

 

[PoliticalChic]

8. With such access to Roosevelt, as Stalin's spy Harry Hopkins had, one can see how simple it was to put Stalin's ideas into Roosevelt's head.

Based on Stalin's wishes.....any surrender by Germany would not be accepted until its potential as a barrier to the spread of communism was obliterated so that "...Soviet Russia's natural barrier against expansion into its European empire" was removed.


And the same applied to Stalin's view of Japan, a potential impediment to the East.

After meeting with Stalin in Moscow on May 28, 1945, Harry Hopkins told Truman that Stalin "prefers to go through with unconditional surrender" regarding Japan. "However, he feels that if we stick to unconditional surrender the Japs will not give up and we will have to destroy them as we did Germany."
Sherwood, "Roosevelt and Hopkins," volume 2, ppg.892-893.

Robert E. Sherwood was Hopkins official biographer.




Stalin demanded "unconditional surrender."

So.....Roosevelt made that his policy.....no matter the deleterious effect it would have on American armed forces.