Rape: An Honest Discussion

[Mathbud1]

The issue with this argument is that most victims of rape know their perpetrator personally. Forcible rape in a parking lot or alleyway is not the norm. There have been studies performed on those convicted of those forcible rape of strangers and the vast majority are unable to give an accurate description of what their victim was wearing when they attacked.

Just because they can't describe it does not mean it did not register on a more primal level. If I see a sexy girl walk by wearing practically nothing I couldn't describe her clothes either. And does knowing someone personally erase the effect of dressing suggestively? Spending more time around someone dressed sexually is going to have more of a effect. Someone mentally unstable enough to rape could see it as an invitation.

So again, does it not make sense to encourage people to dress and act more conservatively for their own safety?

Those that rape strangers are not going to not rape someone because they are not showing cleavage. That was the point I was trying to make. Also that most rapes are done between people who know each other, so again dress is not a factor.

Why is dress not a factor between people who know each other though?

And that stranger rapist may be definitely going to rape somebody, but do you seriously claim that appearance will have no bearing on their choice of who?

 

[Kosh]

The far left rapes the country all the time, but should they get the death penalty?

rape = 4. an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.

 

[Slyhunter]

Sorry, that's rape.

Bullshit.

If your sexual partner tells you to stop and you don't that is rape.

You must of never enjoyed an orgasm. There comes a time where stopping isn't an option.

 

[Zmrzlina]

Why is dress not a factor between people who know each other though?

Because as a man I find the idea that men are unable to control themselves and keep their hands to themselves to be extremely offensive.

And that stranger rapist may be definitely going to rape somebody, but do you seriously claim that appearance will have no bearing on their choice of who?

It doesn't, being a easy target and high probability of getting away with the crime are far greater motivations. This comes from interviews with convicted rapists themselves.

 

[Zmrzlina]

Bullshit.

If your sexual partner tells you to stop and you don't that is rape.

You must of never enjoyed an orgasm. There comes a time where stopping isn't an option.

That will hold up in court.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Rape might have been as a concept introduced by industrialization. Before the industrial revolution, there was no shivalry except in the circles of the feudal elite.

For most of history, women were kidnapped to make wives out of them. This is where the wedding day fun of running off with the bride is rooted in.

Small children get raped too. This causes them to disassociate with their bodies. Rape of people at or after the age of puberty still results in disassociation, but aggravated by acquired modern concepts too.

Rapists are created by being raped. There is no cure for rapists and rape victims. Historically they were both executed always. Why did we stop doing that?

Yeah, see, the fact that we only comparatively recently figured out that forcing sex on other people was bad doesn't mean it wasn't bad before. It just means that we were a lot stupider and more savage then.

As to why we stopped writing people off as unsalvageable, that would also be the result of civilization. Which is not to say we didn't go too far in that direction, since some people really ARE unsalvageable. I think once someone becomes like a rabid dog, the fact that the circumstances leading to that state are sad shouldn't affect the solution of shooting them in the head.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I remember in college there was a march by fem groups and sororities about issue of date rape. It was a candlelight "take back the night" type of thing. When they marched down Greek row passed the frat's (drunk guys standing outside or on porches) the Greek men began chanting "No means yes! No means yes!" Could not do that today without explosion of PC police. Just saying.

How mature.

Well, OF COURSE they're immature. They're frat boys. Duh.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Sorry, that's rape.

Bullshit.

If your sexual partner tells you to stop and you don't that is rape.

I'm trying to picture any way in which I would get that far sexually with someone who would ever engender the need to demand they stop after penetration, and I'm coming up blank. How does that happen?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Knowing that rapists exist and that they act on their impulses should be cause enough for ALL women to do whatever they can to avoid places frequented by said predators and dressing in a manner that could or would seen (from a predator's point of view) as an "invitation" (even if that's not the woman's intent). They have to think like a psycho think and ask themselves what would provoke a rapist to act. Even non-rapists or non-psychos can be enticed by a woman who is dressed provocatively. Add a little beer or wine and Dr. Jekyll can turn into Mr. Hyde. Be careful and use common sense and instead of dressing half naked try leaving a little something to the imagination.

Let me just say that, from a predator's point of view, anything short of the habit of a Carmelite nun - and maybe even that - would be seen as "an invitation". I have no intention of choosing my wardrobe in order to be unattractive to scum. I simply avoid being in the position to be vulnerable to them. There is a line between being prudent and cautious, and being ruled by fear, and I'm not going to step over it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Just because they can't describe it does not mean it did not register on a more primal level. If I see a sexy girl walk by wearing practically nothing I couldn't describe her clothes either. And does knowing someone personally erase the effect of dressing suggestively? Spending more time around someone dressed sexually is going to have more of a effect. Someone mentally unstable enough to rape could see it as an invitation.

So again, does it not make sense to encourage people to dress and act more conservatively for their own safety?

Those that rape strangers are not going to not rape someone because they are not showing cleavage. That was the point I was trying to make. Also that most rapes are done between people who know each other, so again dress is not a factor.

Why is dress not a factor between people who know each other though?

And that stranger rapist may be definitely going to rape somebody, but do you seriously claim that appearance will have no bearing on their choice of who?

Sorry, but I'm not buying the "You were dressed so sexy, I just knew you wanted it, no matter how many times you screamed NO!" argument.

I am blessed to have had some very good men in my life: my father, my ex-husband, my current boyfriend. Not a one of them could be induced to so much as put their hands on a woman who had not explicitly told them to do so, even if she was standing there, buck naked. Nor would they continue sexual behavior a single second longer after she said, "No."

A man who thinks he has a right to do as he pleases with a woman's body, regardless of her expressed wishes on the subject, has no excuse. If he thinks her clothing says, "Yes" while her lips are saying, "No", and he doesn't know which of the two he should be listening to, that is HIS fault. Period.

Let us not lose sight of the line between "stupid behavior that puts you at risk" and "inviting harm".

 

[Mathbud1]

Why is dress not a factor between people who know each other though?

Because as a man I find the idea that men are unable to control themselves and keep their hands to themselves to be extremely offensive.

And that stranger rapist may be definitely going to rape somebody, but do you seriously claim that appearance will have no bearing on their choice of who?

It doesn't, being a easy target and high probability of getting away with the crime are far greater motivations. This comes from interviews with convicted rapists themselves.

But you are trying to apply rational thought to irrational actions. By definition people who commit rape are NOT balanced people. An honestly sane and balanced man (or woman) is not going to rape anyone. Of course that kind of person is not going to be overwhelmed by anyone's choice of clothing.

The point is this, dressing in a way that is fully designed to arouse sexual attention is going to, shocker, arouse sexual attention. And in an irrational mind, or one overly intoxicated by alcohol or drugs, it can easily seem like an open invitation regardless of the actual intentions.

Anyone who doesn't want to be raped should be making choices that reduce their risk of being raped. The most obvious choices are not walking alone in the dark and not drinking or doing drugs. But I'd say there are smaller choices that should be considered as well.

 

[Mathbud1]

Those that rape strangers are not going to not rape someone because they are not showing cleavage. That was the point I was trying to make. Also that most rapes are done between people who know each other, so again dress is not a factor.

Why is dress not a factor between people who know each other though?

And that stranger rapist may be definitely going to rape somebody, but do you seriously claim that appearance will have no bearing on their choice of who?

Sorry, but I'm not buying the "You were dressed so sexy, I just knew you wanted it, no matter how many times you screamed NO!" argument.

I am blessed to have had some very good men in my life: my father, my ex-husband, my current boyfriend. Not a one of them could be induced to so much as put their hands on a woman who had not explicitly told them to do so, even if she was standing there, buck naked. Nor would they continue sexual behavior a single second longer after she said, "No."

A man who thinks he has a right to do as he pleases with a woman's body, regardless of her expressed wishes on the subject, has no excuse. If he thinks her clothing says, "Yes" while her lips are saying, "No", and he doesn't know which of the two he should be listening to, that is HIS fault. Period.

Let us not lose sight of the line between "stupid behavior that puts you at risk" and "inviting harm".

Of course it doesn't excuse anything a rapist does. That isn't the point. The point is about making choices to reduce your risk instead of blandly saying, "I have the right to dress the way I want" regardless of what may come.

Again, sane and rational men are not rapists, and rapists are not sane and rational. If you KNOW that every man you are around is as good as the men you described, then you SHOULD feel safe dressing however you want. But you can't know that about every man you are around unless you know well every man you are around. So maybe your choice of clothing is much less risky than your choice of who to be around. But you don't see many women getting all dolled up to hang around with their dad. They are going out to clubs and bars and other places where they are going to be surrounded by men they know NOTHING about.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Knowing that rapists exist and that they act on their impulses should be cause enough for ALL women to do whatever they can to avoid places frequented by said predators and dressing in a manner that could or would seen (from a predator's point of view) as an "invitation" (even if that's not the woman's intent). They have to think like a psycho think and ask themselves what would provoke a rapist to act. Even non-rapists or non-psychos can be enticed by a woman who is dressed provocatively. Add a little beer or wine and Dr. Jekyll can turn into Mr. Hyde. Be careful and use common sense and instead of dressing half naked try leaving a little something to the imagination.

Let me just say that, from a predator's point of view, anything short of the habit of a Carmelite nun - and maybe even that - would be seen as "an invitation". I have no intention of choosing my wardrobe in order to be unattractive to scum. I simply avoid being in the position to be vulnerable to them. There is a line between being prudent and cautious, and being ruled by fear, and I'm not going to step over it.

Exactly my point. It is stupid to pretend that the danger doesn't exist, and the women that get offended by common sense advice like "Don't walk into a dark alley filled with gang members" aren't really fit to rationally discuss the issues. It would be great if we could wave a magic wand and eliminate rape, but we don't live in a world where magic wands work.

 

[bianco]

Rape should carry a death sentence. We should also be aware that the majority of individuals in prison that are not guilty are those that are accused of rape. In some situations it is obvious the woman was raped. In the vast majority of rape claims it is merely a "he said she said" situation. I have no idea how to determine the truth. Polygraph tests are not allowed in court and failing or passing the polygraph does not determine whether or not the person is charged. The woman's past can not be brought up in trial. I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand a person's distant past should not be held against her but perhaps recent behavior should.

We often hear of a woman that says she was too intoxicated to say no. Assuming the man was also intoxicated how could he be charged. It happens and it is unfair.

Rape should not carry a death sentence.
No crime should carry a death sentence...trust "prosecutors" and "the legal system" at your/everyone's own peril.
Death chambers in America should all be demolished, they belong in the days of 'Auschwitz'.

At least these days the cops give a girl/woman every sympathy, belief and caring if she says she's been raped...at the same time having in the back of their minds the possibility that she's not telling the truth.

Woman who falsely accused boyfriend of rape jailed for three years - Independent.ie

Woman who falsely accused boyfriend of rape jailed for three years


A lying law graduate who falsely accused her boyfriend of a series of rapes has been jailed for three-and-a-half years.

Rhiannon Brooker, 30, falsely claimed Paul Fensome, 46, forced her to have sex with him on five occasions and faked injuries to suggest he had beaten her.

The Birmingham law graduate even alleged that Mr Fensome caused her to have a miscarriage by punching her in the stomach.

Bristol Crown Court heard Brooker falsified the "wicked" allegations so she would have an excuse for failing her legal exams at the University of the West of England.

She repeatedly told tutors at the university, in Bristol, that her performance suffered from "extenuating circumstances".

Mr Fensome, a 6ft 8in heavy metal fan, was arrested, charged and held in custody for 36 days before police confirmed he had clear alibis for the dates of the alleged rapes.

#####

Luckily, the guy had those clear alibis.

Death penalty for rapists?
No thank you!

Prison sentences for lying women falsely accusing men of rape?
Yes please!