Raising the Minimum Wage Does Not Cut Jobs

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Are you suggesting you're not biased? .

yes dummy that's why I asked you to point out the bias, and you changed the subject! Slow?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Indeed it would.

The simplest explanation is to say that the more money a community has, the more it spends, and the more jobs are created by that spending.

The simplest explanation is to say that the more money a community has, the more it spends

Can you explain why the higher minimum wage will increase the money in a community?

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place. Thus they would have more money to spend and would likely spend it in the area where the work, sleep and play.

Those who commute to work would generally spend most of their earnings in the place where they work.

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place.

I would expect the business owner and customers live in the community as well.
They will have less money to spend in the community. I wonder if that will reduce jobs?

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

Urban areas and suburban communities within commute distant of Urban jobs are the most likely to fit within the scenario I proffered. I have very little experience in very rural communities.

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

I'm not sure how this is any sort of rebuttal to what I posted.
The customers of these businesses with mandated hikes in wage expenses will have less money to spend at other businesses in the community. So how has this helped the community? It sounds like a wash at best.

An interesting point, but one which can only be tested when the minimum wage is raised. Since that has not occurred recently on a nation wide scale, but has in San Francisco, I'll look at some stats. I do know when the bill in a SF Restaurant comes it include a small percentage added to provide healthcare for the service employees; this has been in effect for a couple of years and has had no negative impact on employment in The City.

I can't do research today because our dog has agility training at 4 PM, then we are taking our sons and daughter-in-law to Lazy Dogs, a restaurant which allows dogs to dine (well, sleep on the floor as we eat). The food there is pretty good too.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Are you suggesting you're not biased? .

yes dummy that's why I asked you to point out the bias, and you changed the subject! Slow?

Really? I suggest you go back and read your many posts.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

you're one of the callous conservatives who believe poverty is a product of laziness, a lack of ambition or character flaws. .

stupid liberal liar!! Conservative believe most poverty is caused by crippling liberal programs.

 

[gallantwarrior]

The simplest explanation is to say that the more money a community has, the more it spends

Can you explain why the higher minimum wage will increase the money in a community?

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place. Thus they would have more money to spend and would likely spend it in the area where the work, sleep and play.

Those who commute to work would generally spend most of their earnings in the place where they work.

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place.

I would expect the business owner and customers live in the community as well.
They will have less money to spend in the community. I wonder if that will reduce jobs?

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

Urban areas and suburban communities within commute distant of Urban jobs are the most likely to fit within the scenario I proffered. I have very little experience in very rural communities.

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

I'm not sure how this is any sort of rebuttal to what I posted.
The customers of these businesses with mandated hikes in wage expenses will have less money to spend at other businesses in the community. So how has this helped the community? It sounds like a wash at best.

An interesting point, but one which can only be tested when the minimum wage is raised. Since that has not occurred recently on a nation wide scale, but has in San Francisco, I'll look at some stats. I do know when the bill in a SF Restaurant comes it include a small percentage added to provide healthcare for the service employees; this has been in effect for a couple of years and has had no negative impact on employment in The City.

I can't do research today because our dog has agility training at 4 PM, then we are taking our sons and daughter-in-law to Lazy Dogs, a restaurant which allows dogs to dine (well, sleep on the floor as we eat). The food there is pretty good too.

Good thing they let the dogs in. Liberals are pretty low-class clientele...At least the dogs won't shit on the floor...they probably tip better, too.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

it suggests a meanness of pathological proportion.

you are typical liberal bigot. Crippling generations of Americans with welfare programs and then feeling morally superior makes you stupid and a bigot! When Clinton ended welfare as we know it by making it workfare fully half decided they no longer need welfare. What does that teach the liberal bigot?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The simplest explanation is to say that the more money a community has, the more it spends

Can you explain why the higher minimum wage will increase the money in a community?

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place. Thus they would have more money to spend and would likely spend it in the area where the work, sleep and play.

Those who commute to work would generally spend most of their earnings in the place where they work.

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place.

I would expect the business owner and customers live in the community as well.
They will have less money to spend in the community. I wonder if that will reduce jobs?

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

Urban areas and suburban communities within commute distant of Urban jobs are the most likely to fit within the scenario I proffered. I have very little experience in very rural communities.

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

I'm not sure how this is any sort of rebuttal to what I posted.
The customers of these businesses with mandated hikes in wage expenses will have less money to spend at other businesses in the community. So how has this helped the community? It sounds like a wash at best.

An interesting point, but one which can only be tested when the minimum wage is raised. Since that has not occurred recently on a nation wide scale, but has in San Francisco, I'll look at some stats. I do know when the bill in a SF Restaurant comes it include a small percentage added to provide healthcare for the service employees; this has been in effect for a couple of years and has had no negative impact on employment in The City.

I can't do research today because our dog has agility training at 4 PM, then we are taking our sons and daughter-in-law to Lazy Dogs, a restaurant which allows dogs to dine (well, sleep on the floor as we eat). The food there is pretty good too.

An interesting point, but one which can only be tested when the minimum wage is raised.

Hold on one second. You raise the minimum wage. Assuming no jobs are lost, big assumption, the workers have "more money to spend in their community". Say wages increased by $1,000,000 in the community. That's either $1 million less the employers have to "spend in the community" or, if they hiked prices by $1 million, the customers who paid that extra $1 million have $1 million "less money to spend in their community". Like I said, a wash at best.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place. Thus they would have more money to spend and would likely spend it in the area where the work, sleep and play.

Those who commute to work would generally spend most of their earnings in the place where they work.

I would expect it would, depending of course on the specific community. Minimum wage earners are likely to live, work and play in the same place.

I would expect the business owner and customers live in the community as well.
They will have less money to spend in the community. I wonder if that will reduce jobs?

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

Urban areas and suburban communities within commute distant of Urban jobs are the most likely to fit within the scenario I proffered. I have very little experience in very rural communities.

Maybe, but likely not as many minimum wage jobs will exist in middle class or higher communities. Consider the amount of fast food shops in minimum wage communities, and the amount of up scale restaurants in those communities where business owners play and shop.

I'm not sure how this is any sort of rebuttal to what I posted.
The customers of these businesses with mandated hikes in wage expenses will have less money to spend at other businesses in the community. So how has this helped the community? It sounds like a wash at best.

An interesting point, but one which can only be tested when the minimum wage is raised. Since that has not occurred recently on a nation wide scale, but has in San Francisco, I'll look at some stats. I do know when the bill in a SF Restaurant comes it include a small percentage added to provide healthcare for the service employees; this has been in effect for a couple of years and has had no negative impact on employment in The City.

I can't do research today because our dog has agility training at 4 PM, then we are taking our sons and daughter-in-law to Lazy Dogs, a restaurant which allows dogs to dine (well, sleep on the floor as we eat). The food there is pretty good too.

An interesting point, but one which can only be tested when the minimum wage is raised.

Hold on one second. You raise the minimum wage. Assuming no jobs are lost, big assumption, the workers have "more money to spend in their community". Say wages increased by $1,000,000 in the community. That's either $1 million less the employers have to "spend in the community" or, if they hiked prices by $1 million, the customers who paid that extra $1 million have $1 million "less money to spend in their community". Like I said, a wash at best.

yes, real economic growth from the stone age to here comes from supplying new inventions or improving existing ones, not from liberal govt mandating higher wages. There is no free lunch! A liberal has no where near the IQ to understand that.

 

[Toro]

The CBO disagrees.

The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income Congressional Budget Office

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The CBO disagrees.

The Effects of a Minimum-Wage Increase on Employment and Family Income Congressional Budget Office

yes the law of supply and demand is really very simple. As you raise the price of a job or car the fewer can be purchased. This is why fewer Roll's Royce's are purchased than Kias.

 

[Amazon]

I Demand an answer from the OP:

How many businesses do you have and how many people do you employ?

Keep right on demanding.

I am not the subject of this topic, and your insistence on making me the topic simply shows that you have no credible answer to the fact that raising the minimum wage does not cost jobs.

So, since you laughingly demand an answer, here it is:

NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

 

[Amazon]

Sorry I haven't been around to witness the meltdowns, but I have a few minutes to spare, so I thought I'd check in and read the responses.

I've read that several of you think that raising the minimum wage would increase the cost of living. The fact is that the cost of living has gone up steadily since 1938 whether or not the minimum wage has increased. In fact, wages have been stagnant for two decades and the cost of living has gone up 67% according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (Consumer Price Index CPI) The push for a minimum wage increase is fueled by the rising cost of living, not the other way around.

The other common myth is that increasing the minimum wage would not result in a community having more money. That is also false, for reasons that should be fairly obvious: the wealthy have plenty of money, and they buy pretty much anything they want. So extra money in the hands of a millionaire does nothing to stimulate job growth. In fact, the extra money given to a wealthy person usually winds up in an offshore account somewhere in the Cayman Islands. Putting that money into the hands of the public means that it stays in the community and is spent, as opposed to leaving the community in favor of an offshore account where it isn't spent.

But perhaps the silliest complaint is that anyone who wants to become a doctor or get promoted can do so simply by studying or becoming more valuable to the employer. I am not aware of any company promoting all those who deserve it to a manager's position. The fact is, a company will promote someone when they need to, not in response to their continuing education. And then it is only the number of people they need to fill a position, not everyone who deserves it. Likewise, a community cannot survive if 100% of their population is comprised of doctors.

I must give credit to Toro, however. Among all the logical fallacies from the rest of the pack, Toro was the only person here besides me to provide support for his argument. He posted an estimate from the Congressional Budget Office that raising the minimum wage would increase unemployment.

The study does predict that, however, a quick look at their methodology shows that the figures are estimates, not data from past years. Estimates are not proof, they are just what they claim to be: estimates.

Also, the CBO only predicted the immediate results of a minimum wage hike, not even considering what effect the hike would have two or three years from now, which is a key point of my argument.

The studies I quoted in the OP are taken from historical data. At any rate, my 5 studies taken from historical data outweigh one study based on estimates.

The majority of the responses were attempts at logic by folks who don't understand logic, have no support for their arguments, and simply hope to drown the evidence in ridicule. It is a typical conservative response, but typically ineffective as well.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Sorry I haven't been around to witness the meltdowns, but I have a few minutes to spare, so I thought I'd check in and read the responses.

I've read that several of you think that raising the minimum wage would increase the cost of living. The fact is that the cost of living has gone up steadily since 1938 whether or not the minimum wage has increased. In fact, wages have been stagnant for two decades and the cost of living has gone up 67% according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics (Consumer Price Index CPI) The push for a minimum wage increase is fueled by the rising cost of living, not the other way around.

The other common myth is that increasing the minimum wage would not result in a community having more money. That is also false, for reasons that should be fairly obvious: the wealthy have plenty of money, and they buy pretty much anything they want. So extra money in the hands of a millionaire does nothing to stimulate job growth. In fact, the extra money given to a wealthy person usually winds up in an offshore account somewhere in the Cayman Islands. Putting that money into the hands of the public means that it stays in the community and is spent, as opposed to leaving the community in favor of an offshore account where it isn't spent.

But perhaps the silliest complaint is that anyone who wants to become a doctor or get promoted can do so simply by studying or becoming more valuable to the employer. I am not aware of any company promoting all those who deserve it to a manager's position. The fact is, a company will promote someone when they need to, not in response to their continuing education. And then it is only the number of people they need to fill a position, not everyone who deserves it. Likewise, a community cannot survive if 100% of their population is comprised of doctors.

I must give credit to Toro, however. Among all the logical fallacies from the rest of the pack, Toro was the only person here besides me to provide support for his argument. He posted an estimate from the Congressional Budget Office that raising the minimum wage would increase unemployment.

The study does predict that, however, a quick look at their methodology shows that the figures are estimates, not data from past years. Estimates are not proof, they are just what they claim to be: estimates.

Also, the CBO only predicted the immediate results of a minimum wage hike, not even considering what effect the hike would have two or three years from now, which is a key point of my argument.

The studies I quoted in the OP are taken from historical data. At any rate, my 5 studies taken from historical data outweigh one study based on estimates.

The majority of the responses were attempts at logic by folks who don't understand logic, have no support for their arguments, and simply hope to drown the evidence in ridicule. It is a typical conservative response, but typically ineffective as well.

The other common myth is that increasing the minimum wage would not result in a community having more money. That is also false, for reasons that should be fairly obvious:

You're wrong. If you raise the minimum and that causes my family's meal at McDonalds to cost $5 more, I now have $5 less to buy something else in my community. That fact should be fairly obvious.

the wealthy have plenty of money, and they buy pretty much anything they want. So extra money in the hands of a millionaire does nothing to stimulate job growth.

If you structure a tax cut to encourage investment, those nasty wealthy people could create a new business (or expand an existing one) that adds employment and increases wages.

 

[Katzndogz]

Raising the minimum wage might work out very well. Raising the minimum wage encourages automation making technology more attractive in replacing high minimum wage workers. As technology increases and low skilled work disappears, we would not need all those maids and gardeners reducing our need for the illegal immigrant class.

 

[Amazon]

The other common myth is that increasing the minimum wage would not result in a community having more money. That is also false, for reasons that should be fairly obvious:

You're wrong. If you raise the minimum and that causes my family's meal at McDonalds to cost $5 more, I now have $5 less to buy something else in my community. That fact should be fairly obvious.

Hmmm . . . the average McDonald's serves 771 customers a day. If they all paid $5 more for their meal, that would mean an additional $3855.00 for the workers. If a McDonald's had 20 workers, that would equal an extra $192 a day per worker. Added to their current wage of $7.25, an eight-hour shift would mean a total income of $31 an hour.

Nobody is arguing that minimum wage should be $31 an hour.

the wealthy have plenty of money, and they buy pretty much anything they want. So extra money in the hands of a millionaire does nothing to stimulate job growth.

If you structure a tax cut to encourage investment, those nasty wealthy people could create a new business (or expand an existing one) that adds employment and increases wages.

No tax cuts.

Besides, companies do not create jobs, consumer demand does.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The other common myth is that increasing the minimum wage would not result in a community having more money. That is also false, for reasons that should be fairly obvious:

You're wrong. If you raise the minimum and that causes my family's meal at McDonalds to cost $5 more, I now have $5 less to buy something else in my community. That fact should be fairly obvious.

Hmmm . . . the average McDonald's serves 771 customers a day. If they all paid $5 more for their meal, that would mean an additional $3855.00 for the workers. If a McDonald's had 20 workers, that would equal an extra $192 a day per worker. Added to their current wage of $7.25, an eight-hour shift would mean a total income of $31 an hour.

Nobody is arguing that minimum wage should be $31 an hour.

the wealthy have plenty of money, and they buy pretty much anything they want. So extra money in the hands of a millionaire does nothing to stimulate job growth.

If you structure a tax cut to encourage investment, those nasty wealthy people could create a new business (or expand an existing one) that adds employment and increases wages.

No tax cuts.

Besides, companies do not create jobs, consumer demand does.

Hmmm . . . the average McDonald's serves 771 customers a day. If they all paid $5 more for their meal, that would mean an additional $3855.00 for the workers.


Hmmm...I didn't say the $5 increase was for a single meal. Try again?

No tax cuts.
Besides, companies do not create jobs, consumer demand does.

Excellent point, you've just reduced consumer demand for the more expensive McDonalds meals.
Why do you want to destroy jobs?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The other common myth is that increasing the minimum wage would not result in a community having more money. That is also false, for reasons that should be fairly obvious:

You're wrong. If you raise the minimum and that causes my family's meal at McDonalds to cost $5 more, I now have $5 less to buy something else in my community. That fact should be fairly obvious.

Hmmm . . . the average McDonald's serves 771 customers a day. If they all paid $5 more for their meal, that would mean an additional $3855.00 for the workers. If a McDonald's had 20 workers, that would equal an extra $192 a day per worker. Added to their current wage of $7.25, an eight-hour shift would mean a total income of $31 an hour.

Nobody is arguing that minimum wage should be $31 an hour.

the wealthy have plenty of money, and they buy pretty much anything they want. So extra money in the hands of a millionaire does nothing to stimulate job growth.

If you structure a tax cut to encourage investment, those nasty wealthy people could create a new business (or expand an existing one) that adds employment and increases wages.

No tax cuts.

Besides, companies do not create jobs, consumer demand does.

Hmmm . . . the average McDonald's serves 771 customers a day. If they all paid $5 more for their meal, that would mean an additional $3855.00 for the workers.


Hmmm...I didn't say the $5 increase was for a single meal. Try again?

No tax cuts.
Besides, companies do not create jobs, consumer demand does.

Excellent point, you've just reduced consumer demand for the more expensive McDonalds meals.
Why do you want to destroy jobs?

liberals don't know about the law of supply and demand. It says that when you raise the price of anything the demand for it goes down. This is why there is less demand for Rolls Royces than VWs.

Similarily , as you raise the price of labor the demand for it (number of jobs in this case) goes down.

does the liberal understand nbow?

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Judicial review]

There was already a thread on this. Go find it you lazy ass.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

There was already a thread on this. Go find it you lazy ass.

liberals don't know about the law of supply and demand. It says that when you raise the price of anything the demand for it goes down. This is why there is less demand for Rolls Royces than VWs.

Similarily , as you raise the price of labor the demand for it (number of jobs in this case) goes down.

does the liberal understand now?