Quit or Fired?

[chanel]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

 

[California Girl]

I'd say contact the Unemployment Office and tell them he quit... without the courtesy of giving your husband notice. Put it in writing.

 

[Wry Catcher]

In the future if you have an employee with a drug problem, or a problem getting to work, on time or at all, your best course of action is to have a 'chat' with him/her. Put them on notice that future violations of whatever will be cause for termination. Give them a last chance document, spell out your expectations and have the employee sign a "last chance" contract.

It's a simple way to solve what may become a problem.

 

[Mr. H.]

Maybe write a letter to the UI office. Request a meeting with them. Anything to set the record straight and to keep your rates from going up again.

 

[chanel]

In the future if you have an employee with a drug problem, or a problem getting to work, on time or at all, your best course of action is to have a 'chat' with him/her. Put them on notice that future violations of whatever will be cause for termination. Give them a last chance document, spell out your expectations and have the employee sign a "last chance" contract.

It's a simple way to solve what may become a problem.

You are right Wry. We had no "contract" but that conversation did take place. The guy was up front about his addiction when he was hired. He said he had been clean for 2 years and was in a stable relationship and was starting over. And as I said, he was very good at his job.

But this is the problem. I am fairly certain that my husband did warn him that subsequent "no show, no calls" would result in termination. And in that case, he could have assumed that he was fired, after the last one.

This is why it is tricky and he could very well prevail. But it's not right. What's to stop anyone from just not going to work and then getting fired?

BTW - Believe it or not, hubby could still use him. He's going to tell the UI office he can have his job back. If he refuses, (which I suspect he will), then we may have a stronger case.

 

[Douger]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

Mandatory drug test compliance. No compliance ? Fired/no unemployment benefits. You can even select the drugs ! A friend of mine in Floridastan allows THC.

 

[Ariux]

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

Doesn't UI insurance require that one be fired without cause, e.g. laid off for lack of work? Therefor, claiming he was fired for non-attendance would disqualify him from UI?

 

[AquaAthena]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

My former hubby and I consistently won over the employee, by previously documenting every conversation we had with the employee and every action taken by us and the employee. My hubby would give the employee many chances to get their act together. I would warn once, sometimes twice, and then let that employee go. They did harm to the reputation of the business and customer service, and I found out that if they didn't comply with policy after two warnings, they really never would.

Our rates never went up. Our record keeping impressed the judge at the meetings and the deliberate and disgruntled employee lost yet again.

 

[American Horse]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

I always operated my construction business with just a few employees, never more than 4 and usually only one. by myself An employeed drawing UI was a larger factor in that size base than someone with say 10 or 20 employees. Yet, when a person drew UI it never affected my rate substantially. I never contested anyone drawing, I just provided honest information when asked and let it go at that, or be aggressive and report it, but then let it go.

Your rate increase you mentioned may or may not have been triggered by that one event, I doubt it, it was probably a tipping point and that's not the fault of that person per se. Your rate is based on your experience over time, not a single event.

 

[007]

In the future if you have an employee with a drug problem, or a problem getting to work, on time or at all, your best course of action is to have a 'chat' with him/her. Put them on notice that future violations of whatever will be cause for termination. Give them a last chance document, spell out your expectations and have the employee sign a "last chance" contract.

It's a simple way to solve what may become a problem.

You are right Wry. We had no "contract" but that conversation did take place. The guy was up front about his addiction when he was hired. He said he had been clean for 2 years and was in a stable relationship and was starting over. And as I said, he was very good at his job.

But this is the problem. I am fairly certain that my husband did warn him that subsequent "no show, no calls" would result in termination. And in that case, he could have assumed that he was fired, after the last one.

This is why it is tricky and he could very well prevail. But it's not right. What's to stop anyone from just not going to work and then getting fired?

BTW - Believe it or not, hubby could still use him. He's going to tell the UI office he can have his job back. If he refuses, (which I suspect he will), then we may have a stronger case.

I don't know about where you live, but in the state of Wisconsin, if you're fired for no show, no call, you are NOT eligible for unemployment. If you're fired for any legitimate reason, you will not collect UE in Wisconsin. Nevada either.

 

[g5000]

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

Doesn't UI insurance require that one be fired without cause, e.g. laid off for lack of work? Therefor, claiming he was fired for non-attendance would disqualify him from UI?

That's the way it is in my state. I would be surprised if NJ was different.

 

[chanel]

The state unemployment FAQ section is pretty vague. They say all claims are made on a case-by-case basis.

In 2010, Christie changed the eligibility requirements so that people who quit or were fired for "gross misconduct" were ineligible to collect. Prior to that, anyone who didn't feel like working, or stole from their employer, could. Crazy ain't it?

I'm not sure if "no show" qualifies as "gross misconduct". I guess we'll find out.

Thanks all for your input.

 

[editec]

If he quit he is not eligible for unemployment.

If he quit because of a hostile workplace environment, (not that your narrative suggests that is the case, of course,) he might be eligible for unemployment.

 

[chanel]

He won't be able to make that claim editec. He was pretty well respected by the other guys.

But the question is "did he quit"? or "did he presume he was fired?" since he had been warned that further no-shows would result in termination.

I guess that's why they have to take it "case by case".

BTW- His "wife" (or live in g/f) has a good job. He's not out on the streets.

 

[Paulie]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

Your only burden is proving misconduct. Chronic non-attendance would be misconduct, no?

 

[signelect]

He shouldn't get a dime. I have a friend that has a very small company and he can't get employeeds becausew as soon as they realize that the 4 letter word WORK is involved they don't show up. I am surpised that the employee demand that they bring the last check to his house. I have another 4 letter word that would express my opinion of this individual it is **** You. figure it out.

 

[The Professor]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.


What say you?

What say I?

How dare you ask?

You think you have the right to question me just because you're better looking and smarter than I am?

Nonetheless, here is my response.

I do not know the laws in every state. However, I do know that in most states, someone who is fired for cause cannot receive Unemployment Compensation (UC). Generally, in order to receive UC, the employee must show he/she was ready, willing and able to work, and through no fault of his/her own was denied continued employment. Thus, an employee who was too ill to work would not receive UC benefits unless the work environment was the proximate cause of the employee's illness. Just because an employee was fired does not entitle him to UC. In fact, most terminate employees do not qualify for UC. The question is whether he was fired for cause, and by that I mean JUST cause. If an employee was fired because he allegedly used drugs, but the employee proved the accusations were unsubstantiated, he would be entitle to benefits. The case law I have reviewed shows that those who cannot show up for work as scheduled can be fired and they are not entitled to benefits.

Sometimes, the law seems unfair. For example, an employee who is inured in an automobile accident unrelated to her employment may be terminated if her injuries prevent her from maintaining acceptable levels of attendance. Even though the accident was not her fault, she was not able to work and thus unable to receive UC.

I suggest you check the rules for UC in your particular state.

I sincerely hope this helps you.

 

[Big Fitz]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

He quit without notice by not showing up.

 

[Intense]

In the future if you have an employee with a drug problem, or a problem getting to work, on time or at all, your best course of action is to have a 'chat' with him/her. Put them on notice that future violations of whatever will be cause for termination. Give them a last chance document, spell out your expectations and have the employee sign a "last chance" contract.

It's a simple way to solve what may become a problem.

You are right Wry. We had no "contract" but that conversation did take place. The guy was up front about his addiction when he was hired. He said he had been clean for 2 years and was in a stable relationship and was starting over. And as I said, he was very good at his job.

But this is the problem. I am fairly certain that my husband did warn him that subsequent "no show, no calls" would result in termination. And in that case, he could have assumed that he was fired, after the last one.

This is why it is tricky and he could very well prevail. But it's not right. What's to stop anyone from just not going to work and then getting fired?

BTW - Believe it or not, hubby could still use him. He's going to tell the UI office he can have his job back. If he refuses, (which I suspect he will), then we may have a stronger case.

Tell the Employment Office that his job is waiting for him, see if he even shows up. I would trust him with a broom more than with customers, unless you want him to be accompanied with a Baby Sitter. If he shows, see how long he lasts. Have all of your documentation signed and in order.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

My husband just got notice that one of our former employees has filed for UI. He was an excellent technician but he had a problem with "showing up". (He had a drug problem in the past).

A couple of months ago he stopped coming to work. My husband tried calling him several times, but his phone was disconnected. He eventually showed up at the shop looking for his last paycheck and turned in his uniform. Essentially, he quit.

Unemployment fraud is rampant in the State of NJ. We challenged a claim several years ago where an employee quit and got another job working under the table. But when we contacted the Unemployment office, they said they'd "investigate". Of course they never did, and our rate went up.

This guy will argue that he was fired for non-attendance, and my guess is that he will prevail.

What say you?

He will not prevail.
I assume you have employee handbooks or some other method where your attendance requirements are available to employees?
Then you have nothing to worry about.
It is called "Job abandonment"...most states recognize it as an employee who fails to show up for work for 72 hours and they will NOT receive compensation.