Public Employee Unions

[Wyatt earp]

I so love these public union theads now a little girl working at Walmart making $8 bucks an hour, knows 10 bucks or her pay check goes to UNiON PUBLIC WORKERS that get $75 grand a year,,,,,That poor little girl trying to feed her 2 yearr old son and supporting that old 59 year old IRS worker making 75 grand a year.....

 

[noose4]

I so love these public union theads now a little girl working at Walmart making $8 bucks an hour, knows 10 bucks or her pay check goes to UNiON PUBLIC WORKERS that get $75 grand a year,,,,,That poor little girl trying to feed her 2 yearr old son and supporting that old 59 year old IRS worker making 75 grand a year.....

I agree Walmart should pay workers more so they dont have to rely on welfare programs to subsidize the pay they get working for a multi billion dollar corporation.

 

[jwoodie]

People in the private sector do not vote in their employers; people in the public sector do.
You are appraretly unable or unwilling to see the difference.

really?.....in 33 years in the PO..... i never had a say who was going to be my boss....

You voted for mayor/sheriff/city council, yes?
Then you had a say.

Your union contributed to their campaigns, yes?
Then you bribed them.

 

[FA_Q2]

It takes two to tango, so pushing all the blame onto the politicians isnt exactly fair. And good luck trying to get public unions to agree to defined contribution plans like a 401k. They know thier power is based on pension style benefits.

The other solution would be to transfer the retirement funds to the unions themselves, much as construction unions work it. then the fund can't go raiding the taxpayer kitty every time it runs short in a fiscal year.

You don’t actually have to get the unions to agree though – just make that portion law. I have to admit though; it is not a bad idea. Not sure that it is enough but it is a start.

Quite frankly all it will take are a couple more big municiple bankruptcies like Stockton and the public employees will agree also. If they had 401k's their benefits would not be affected by a bankruptcy.

This is a real possibility as all over the place these bankruptcies are going to start occurring. There are very real financial problems for those entities that cannot simply wave a hand and ‘create’ themselves a few more trillion.

 

[PaulS1950]

401-K is a savings account but not a very good retirement benefit. The average person would need a 401-K with $1,000,000 in it to equal the same as 50% of their wage for the retirement term. (65 - 85 including inflation at 3%)

My union retirement for the 6 years I was in the union is $200 a month. If I had been in a union job for 20 years it would have been 10 times that. Luckily that pension is not what I have to live on.

 

[snowdenisahero]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

So do you think Unions are a good thing?

 

[MikeK]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

Not only police officers are well served by public employee unions. But the police unions are by far the most powerful and politically influential.

 

[MikeK]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

So do you think Unions are a good thing?

If you belong to the middle class, whether or not you or your parents are union members you owe your relatively comfortable lifestyle to the union movement, without which there would be no concept of the living wage, no forty hour work week, no eight hour work day, no overtime pay, no paid vacations, no benefits or employee protections of any kind.

Too many contemporary Americans take these things for granted and are anti-union because of their ignorance of the sacrifices, the suffering, and the bloodshed it took to impart dignity to the American worker.


Here are some good books about unions:

Rebuilding Labor
Why Unions Matter
Unions At The Crossroads
The Transformation of U.S. Unions
Look For The Union Label
What Do We Need A Union For
The CIO
Infighting In The UAW


And union movies:

How Green Was My Valley
The Grapes Of Wrath
Native Land
On The Waterfront
The Pajama Game
Harlan County USA
The Organizer
Norma Rae
Matewan
The Molly Maguires
Hoffa

It's true that some unions have become corrupted and all unions have their flaws, but we are far better off with them than we'd be without them.

 

[midcan5]

Yep, America can now become China, Walmart would be happy. Fair wages you say, balderdash corporatists say. Americans need to work like Third world slaves - come on people get with it - Apple stock needs you. And Americans are strong they won't kill themselves!

"...Chinese bloggers began referring to the Shenzhen plant as the "Foxconn Suicide Express." In its investigation of conditions at Longhua and other plants making Apple products, SACOM concluded that many of those who committed suicide were exhausted, overworked, verbally and physically abused by supervisors, or publicly humiliated when they failed to meet their production quotas. SACOM reports tell the story of some of these young victims:

• Hou, a nineteen-year-old woman from Hunan province, hanged herself in the toilet of her dorm room on June 18, 2007, shortly a&er she had assured her parents that she would soon be coming home.

• Sun, a twenty-five-year-old college graduate from Yunnan province, jumped to his death from his twelfth-floor room on July 16, 2009, after he was allegedly blamed for losing a prototype for a new iPhone. According to SACOM, Sun was detained by security officers, placed in "solitary confinement," subjected to "psychological pressures," and allegedly beaten. In a final chat with friends shortly before he killed himself, he described the relief he felt in planning to take his own life: "Thinking that I won't be bullied tomorrow, won't have to be the scapegoat, I feel much better."

• After Feng, a twenty-three-year-old college graduate, jumped to his death from his fourteenth-floor room on January 16, 2009, police found a suicide note: "Too much work pressure; unstable emotions."

• Ma, a nineteen-year-old native of Henan province, was found dead near a stairway of his dormitory on January 23, 2010. An autopsy concluded that he had fallen to his death. His sisters later insisted that their brother died from a beating he had suffered after he accidentally damaged equipment at work.

After a rash of suicides at the Foxconn plant in early 2010, Foxconn took action: it strung nets around the dorms to catch any workers who might try to kill themselves by jumping. It also sealed balcony doors and barred access to roofs. Workers were reportedly urged to sign a statement promising not to kill themselves and to "treasure their lives." Apple said later in a public report on "supplier responsibility') issued to shareholders that it was "disturbed and deeply saddened to learn that factory workers were taking their own lives" and pledged to take steps "to help prevent further tragedies."" from p 93-94 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/t...use-forced-student-labor-to-make-iphones.html

"Roosevelt did not bother with economic arguments when it came to hours and wages. He offered a simple framework, both moral and patriotic. “A self-supporting and self-respecting democracy,” he proclaimed, “can plead no justification for the existence of child labor, no economic reason for chiseling workers’ wages or stretching workers’ hours.” That is as true today as it was then." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/25/opinion/the-future-of-fair-labor.html

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-conservatives-in-lansing-14.html#post6481896
'Right to Work' for Less


"With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed." Clarence Darrow

"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy' [see also Home | MIT Video ]
.

 

[noose4]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

So do you think Unions are a good thing?

I think unions are the last line of defense for the working middle class so yes.

 

[Papageorgio]

I don't mind unions in both the public and private sector. I do not like public unions to have collective bargaining, it gives to much power to a union over the taxpayer. That is why federal employees that belong to federal unions do not have that power.

On this I agree with FDR.

 

[sealybobo]

are like Communism: Great in theory but terrible in practice. They now represent a new aristocracy which holds a knife to the throat of our democracy. If we don't give them what they demand, we will be punished...

Tell sayit

 

[initforme]

Unions are slowly going away....worker progress will follow.....down the tubes.

 

[candycorn]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

They trust businesses to regulate themselves, pay good wages, do the right thing, etc... Some do, most do not.
This is why industrial plants routinely blow up in Texas.

 

[candycorn]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

So do you think Unions are a good thing?

If you belong to the middle class, whether or not you or your parents are union members you owe your relatively comfortable lifestyle to the union movement, without which there would be no concept of the living wage, no forty hour work week, no eight hour work day, no overtime pay, no paid vacations, no benefits or employee protections of any kind.

Too many contemporary Americans take these things for granted and are anti-union because of their ignorance of the sacrifices, the suffering, and the bloodshed it took to impart dignity to the American worker.


Here are some good books about unions:

Rebuilding Labor
Why Unions Matter
Unions At The Crossroads
The Transformation of U.S. Unions
Look For The Union Label
What Do We Need A Union For
The CIO
Infighting In The UAW


And union movies:

How Green Was My Valley
The Grapes Of Wrath
Native Land
On The Waterfront
The Pajama Game
Harlan County USA
The Organizer
Norma Rae
Matewan
The Molly Maguires
Hoffa

It's true that some unions have become corrupted and all unions have their flaws, but we are far better off with them than we'd be without them.

When I graduated HS way back when, I must have gotten 2-3 dozen letters from organizations on campus, the military, colleges, etc... When I graduated from College and got my multiple occupational certifications--all accredited by national governing bodies...I got zero from unions.

Unions have themselves to blame for their decline in some cases.

You'd figure that there would be someone at the union doing some recruiting

 

[Wyatt earp]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

So do you think Unions are a good thing?

If you belong to the middle class, whether or not you or your parents are union members you owe your relatively comfortable lifestyle to the union movement, without which there would be no concept of the living wage, no forty hour work week, no eight hour work day, no overtime pay, no paid vacations, no benefits or employee protections of any kind.

Too many contemporary Americans take these things for granted and are anti-union because of their ignorance of the sacrifices, the suffering, and the bloodshed it took to impart dignity to the American worker.


Here are some good books about unions:

Rebuilding Labor
Why Unions Matter
Unions At The Crossroads
The Transformation of U.S. Unions
Look For The Union Label
What Do We Need A Union For
The CIO
Infighting In The UAW


And union movies:

How Green Was My Valley
The Grapes Of Wrath
Native Land
On The Waterfront
The Pajama Game
Harlan County USA
The Organizer
Norma Rae
Matewan
The Molly Maguires
Hoffa

It's true that some unions have become corrupted and all unions have their flaws, but we are far better off with them than we'd be without them.

When I graduated HS way back when, I must have gotten 2-3 dozen letters from organizations on campus, the military, colleges, etc... When I graduated from College and got my multiple occupational certifications--all accredited by national governing bodies...I got zero from unions.

Unions have themselves to blame for their decline in some cases.

You'd figure that there would be someone at the union doing some recruiting

But then again the Unions are the good ol' boy network, I remember my cousin being on the list to hire when he was five years old and got the job when he was 28

 

[jwoodie]

Yep, America can now become China, Walmart would be happy. Fair wages you say, balderdash corporatists say. Americans need to work like Third world slaves - come on people get with it - Apple stock needs you. And Americans are strong they won't kill themselves!

"...Chinese bloggers began referring to the Shenzhen plant as the "Foxconn Suicide Express." In its investigation of conditions at Longhua and other plants making Apple products, SACOM concluded that many of those who committed suicide were exhausted, overworked, verbally and physically abused by supervisors, or publicly humiliated when they failed to meet their production quotas. SACOM reports tell the story of some of these young victims:

• Hou, a nineteen-year-old woman from Hunan province, hanged herself in the toilet of her dorm room on June 18, 2007, shortly a&er she had assured her parents that she would soon be coming home.

• Sun, a twenty-five-year-old college graduate from Yunnan province, jumped to his death from his twelfth-floor room on July 16, 2009, after he was allegedly blamed for losing a prototype for a new iPhone. According to SACOM, Sun was detained by security officers, placed in "solitary confinement," subjected to "psychological pressures," and allegedly beaten. In a final chat with friends shortly before he killed himself, he described the relief he felt in planning to take his own life: "Thinking that I won't be bullied tomorrow, won't have to be the scapegoat, I feel much better."

• After Feng, a twenty-three-year-old college graduate, jumped to his death from his fourteenth-floor room on January 16, 2009, police found a suicide note: "Too much work pressure; unstable emotions."

• Ma, a nineteen-year-old native of Henan province, was found dead near a stairway of his dormitory on January 23, 2010. An autopsy concluded that he had fallen to his death. His sisters later insisted that their brother died from a beating he had suffered after he accidentally damaged equipment at work.

After a rash of suicides at the Foxconn plant in early 2010, Foxconn took action: it strung nets around the dorms to catch any workers who might try to kill themselves by jumping. It also sealed balcony doors and barred access to roofs. Workers were reportedly urged to sign a statement promising not to kill themselves and to "treasure their lives." Apple said later in a public report on "supplier responsibility') issued to shareholders that it was "disturbed and deeply saddened to learn that factory workers were taking their own lives" and pledged to take steps "to help prevent further tragedies."" from p 93-94 'The Betrayal of the American Dream' Donald L. Barlett, James B. Steele

Foxconn Said to Use Forced Student Labor to Make iPhones

"Roosevelt did not bother with economic arguments when it came to hours and wages. He offered a simple framework, both moral and patriotic. “A self-supporting and self-respecting democracy,” he proclaimed, “can plead no justification for the existence of child labor, no economic reason for chiseling workers’ wages or stretching workers’ hours.” That is as true today as it was then." Opinion | The Future of Fair Labor

UNION THUGS Destroy & Trample AFP Tent – Rough Up Conservatives in Lansing
'Right to Work' for Less


"With all their faults, trade unions have done more for humanity than any other organization of men that ever existed." Clarence Darrow

"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy' [see also Home | MIT Video ]
.

Ideological diatribes have no place in the CDZ.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Are you even remotely aware that compensation for federal government positions is not subject to collective bargaining?

Of course you did not know that.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

Change your state and local laws because none of that applies to the federal government.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

1. Public employees' total compensation is 50% higher than their private sector counterparts, not counting much greater job security.

2. Public employees do not need union protection because they are already covered by civil service regulations.

3. Making contributions to their employers (politicians) is an obvious conflict of interest that would constitute a felony in the private sector.

You just posted three false statements. Why?