Public Employee Unions

[jwoodie]

are like Communism: Great in theory but terrible in practice. They now represent a new aristocracy which holds a knife to the throat of our democracy. If we don't give them what they demand, we will be punished...

 

[noose4]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

 

[noose4]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

 

[martybegan]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

 

[noose4]

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

Public employees, outside upper management, make similar wages and benefits to other good working class jobs, I do not envy or have a problem with the wages and benefits these workers make thanks to union negotiations.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

Public employees, outside upper management, make similar wages and benefits to other good working class jobs, I do not envy or have a problem with the wages and benefits these workers make thanks to union negotiations.

As a taxpayer, I do. Stealing money from me to give these folks who are economically non-productive more and more money each year is extortion. you may be fine with that, but im not and neither is a large portion of taxpayers.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

It's public service, it's not suppose to pay as if the government is making record profit every year. Thats the entire difference. What the government has to give to these employees through negotiation is only as big as the supply of revenue stolen from private sector workers. The government has nothign of its own, it must confiscate its revenue through force.

"One of those good government jobs" is an awful saying in this country. If people want to serve in government, they should eb satisfied with small salaries and be doing it "for the greater good" as they tell taxpayers that is why we must pay. Not that these are some of the best jjobs you can get in the country. Public unions are a moral hazard, are economically non-productive and should be completely outlawed.

 

[noose4]

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

Public employees, outside upper management, make similar wages and benefits to other good working class jobs, I do not envy or have a problem with the wages and benefits these workers make thanks to union negotiations.

As a taxpayer, I do. Stealing money from me to give these folks who are economically non-productive more and more money each year is extortion. you may be fine with that, but im not and neither is a large portion of taxpayers.

So law enforcement should be a voluntary position? As a tax payer I want the people working for me to make a decent living.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Public employees, outside upper management, make similar wages and benefits to other good working class jobs, I do not envy or have a problem with the wages and benefits these workers make thanks to union negotiations.

As a taxpayer, I do. Stealing money from me to give these folks who are economically non-productive more and more money each year is extortion. you may be fine with that, but im not and neither is a large portion of taxpayers.

So law enforcement should be a voluntary position? As a tax payer I want the people working for me to make a decent living.

Where did i indicate it should be voluntary?

And as a taxpayer, im not ok with it. So you see this is where the problem occurs. I shouldn't be held responsible to give increases to govt. workers while Im battling inflation caused by the govt adn a host of waste that comes with bureaucracy. You're not making a valid case for public unoins by simply saying you want them to have more money. in that case, fork it over and stop electing me to also fork it over. Go ahead and write a big fat check from your own account and send it in. I'll keep my money thanks.

 

[martybegan]

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

Public employees, outside upper management, make similar wages and benefits to other good working class jobs, I do not envy or have a problem with the wages and benefits these workers make thanks to union negotiations.

its not about envy, its about paying for promised retirement benefits that will not be coverable by the funds created. At that point the governments that made the promises (between the politicans elected with the help of the unions and the unions themselves) will either have to default or raise taxes/slash services.

Another issue with public unions is that unlike a buisiness, governments cannot go out of buisness (although we will be testing that soon) So the politicans can agree to all sorts of inane work rules that would never float in the private sector. So you need more people to do the same work.

 

[jwoodie]

1. Public employees' total compensation is 50% higher than their private sector counterparts, not counting much greater job security.

2. Public employees do not need union protection because they are already covered by civil service regulations.

3. Making contributions to their employers (politicians) is an obvious conflict of interest that would constitute a felony in the private sector.

 

[noose4]

As a taxpayer, I do. Stealing money from me to give these folks who are economically non-productive more and more money each year is extortion. you may be fine with that, but im not and neither is a large portion of taxpayers.

So law enforcement should be a voluntary position? As a tax payer I want the people working for me to make a decent living.

Where did i indicate it should be voluntary?

And as a taxpayer, im not ok with it. So you see this is where the problem occurs. I shouldn't be held responsible to give increases to govt. workers while Im battling inflation caused by the govt adn a host of waste that comes with bureaucracy. You're not making a valid case for public unoins by simply saying you want them to have more money. in that case, fork it over and stop electing me to also fork it over. Go ahead and write a big fat check from your own account and send it in. I'll keep my money thanks.

I will stop asking you to fork it over when you stop using government provided services.

 

[noose4]

1. Public employees' total compensation is 50% higher than their private sector counterparts, not counting much greater job security.

2. Public employees do not need union protection because they are already covered by civil service regulations.

3. Making contributions to their employers (politicians) is an obvious conflict of interest that would constitute a felony in the private sector.

You can not compare a civil service job like Law Enforcement to a job at Walmart, funny how conservative dis trust government until it comes to government regulations regarding workers and the workplace and then it becomes unions are not needed we have government to protect these workers.

 

[martybegan]

So law enforcement should be a voluntary position? As a tax payer I want the people working for me to make a decent living.

Where did i indicate it should be voluntary?

And as a taxpayer, im not ok with it. So you see this is where the problem occurs. I shouldn't be held responsible to give increases to govt. workers while Im battling inflation caused by the govt adn a host of waste that comes with bureaucracy. You're not making a valid case for public unoins by simply saying you want them to have more money. in that case, fork it over and stop electing me to also fork it over. Go ahead and write a big fat check from your own account and send it in. I'll keep my money thanks.

I will stop asking you to fork it over when you stop using government provided services.

I have never used welfare, so i should stop paying for it.
I have never used the public defenders office, so I should stop paying for it
I have never had to call the police, so I guess I dont need to pay for them
I have never called the fire department, yay! I can stop maying
I have never called an ambulance, good! more deductions!
I have never used unemployment insurance, have that deduction taken out of my paystub please.

 

[noose4]

Where did i indicate it should be voluntary?

And as a taxpayer, im not ok with it. So you see this is where the problem occurs. I shouldn't be held responsible to give increases to govt. workers while Im battling inflation caused by the govt adn a host of waste that comes with bureaucracy. You're not making a valid case for public unoins by simply saying you want them to have more money. in that case, fork it over and stop electing me to also fork it over. Go ahead and write a big fat check from your own account and send it in. I'll keep my money thanks.

I will stop asking you to fork it over when you stop using government provided services.

I have never used welfare, so i should stop paying for it.
I have never used the public defenders office, so I should stop paying for it
I have never had to call the police, so I guess I dont need to pay for them
I have never called the fire department, yay! I can stop maying
I have never called an ambulance, good! more deductions!
I have never used unemployment insurance, have that deduction taken out of my paystub please.

You use paved roads, you have police protection whether you have had to call them or not and since you havent had to call them they must be doing a very good job.

 

[martybegan]

I will stop asking you to fork it over when you stop using government provided services.

I have never used welfare, so i should stop paying for it.
I have never used the public defenders office, so I should stop paying for it
I have never had to call the police, so I guess I dont need to pay for them
I have never called the fire department, yay! I can stop maying
I have never called an ambulance, good! more deductions!
I have never used unemployment insurance, have that deduction taken out of my paystub please.

You use paved roads, you have police protection whether you have had to call them or not and since you havent had to call them they must be doing a very good job.

Fine, still, reimburse me for the rest of them please.

 

[noose4]

Where did i indicate it should be voluntary?

And as a taxpayer, im not ok with it. So you see this is where the problem occurs. I shouldn't be held responsible to give increases to govt. workers while Im battling inflation caused by the govt adn a host of waste that comes with bureaucracy. You're not making a valid case for public unoins by simply saying you want them to have more money. in that case, fork it over and stop electing me to also fork it over. Go ahead and write a big fat check from your own account and send it in. I'll keep my money thanks.

I will stop asking you to fork it over when you stop using government provided services.

I guess you properly named yourself here, because you're putting the noose around your own neck in this argument. There is no stop payment for services unrendered in govt. The application of taxes to pay for services, whether used or not, is compulsory. So really you have no argument here. You're just using nonsense to try and make a point.

ive never called the police, never been on welfare, never plan to see any return on SS and so on. Yet there is no opt out of payment.

Your argument is invalid. You simply like to force people to do what you believe is right. Which is exactly what makes you like every other tyrant in history.

Nor should there be an opt out, taxes keep a civilized society going, I do not have a car and take public transportation but know it is a good thing to have paved highways, I have no children but know it is a good thing to educate young people, I have never had to call the cops but I know having laws enforced and criminals arrested is a good thing.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I will stop asking you to fork it over when you stop using government provided services.

I have never used welfare, so i should stop paying for it.
I have never used the public defenders office, so I should stop paying for it
I have never had to call the police, so I guess I dont need to pay for them
I have never called the fire department, yay! I can stop maying
I have never called an ambulance, good! more deductions!
I have never used unemployment insurance, have that deduction taken out of my paystub please.

You use paved roads, you have police protection whether you have had to call them or not and since you havent had to call them they must be doing a very good job.

And there is a tax at the pump for this when you buy gas. it's always the same arguments with your type and they are all failures. The second portion of your statement is what we call a logical fallacy.


Alright, this isnt going anywhere so im going to leave you to it.

 

[noose4]

I have never used welfare, so i should stop paying for it.
I have never used the public defenders office, so I should stop paying for it
I have never had to call the police, so I guess I dont need to pay for them
I have never called the fire department, yay! I can stop maying
I have never called an ambulance, good! more deductions!
I have never used unemployment insurance, have that deduction taken out of my paystub please.

You use paved roads, you have police protection whether you have had to call them or not and since you havent had to call them they must be doing a very good job.

Fine, still, reimburse me for the rest of them please.

No