Prophecy Clarified

[dilloduck]

Well hell---maybe I have the wrong idea here but I thought a forum was to discuss and debate issues out in the open in a way that everyone can express themselves and learn from. I try really hard to avoid name calling and to be courteous. I don't always succeed. I have tried numerous times to understand fundementalists yet it STILL all sounds like people who not only believe things as literally written and will accept no challenges. I guess that's even fine with me but when these very same people act in a manner that is contrary to thier belief they absolve them selves by using scripture from the VERY SAME BOOK. If another "strays" they feel obligated to inform the " sinner" that unless he changes his way he will not have eternal life. I know the concept of "other ways" is a sin in your viewpoint so those who believe differently have lost before they even started. I should not have challenge a belief sytem that accepts no challenges but feels free to challenge the beliefs of others. Hypocracy just gets me frustrated and I should have known this by now but I guess every now and then I feel the need to see if a fundementalist ever lightens up. If they ever even think that there might be "other ways" they lose thier identities. I do understand THAT aspect of it. thanks for the bull session

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Not lumping you in the same category, but you do realize that what you said is what the Muslims claim. They say God changed his mind and that is where Mohammed came from.

About what? Christ's divinity? Haha.

Seriously though?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
I have tried numerous times to understand fundementalists yet it STILL all sounds like people who not only believe things as literally written and will accept no challenges.

If that is what the Bible dictates, why would you expect different?

I guess that's even fine with me but when these very same people act in a manner that is contrary to thier belief they absolve them selves by using scripture from the VERY SAME BOOK.

Not sure what you mean here, but I hope you have proof.

If another "strays" they feel obligated to inform the " sinner" that unless he changes his way he will not have eternal life.

Have you not been reading again?

Not once in this thread has that been said.

I know the concept of "other ways" is a sin in your viewpoint so those who believe differently have lost before they even started.

Only those who do not know Christ are lost. -That is His statement, not mine.

I should not have challenge a belief sytem that accepts no challenges but feels free to challenge the beliefs of others.

John chapter 14
King James Version
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Hypocracy just gets me frustrated and I should have known this by now but I guess every now and then I feel the need to see if a fundementalist ever lightens up. If they ever even think that there might be "other ways" they lose thier identities. I do understand THAT aspect of it. thanks for the bull session

You are blinded by your ego.
There has been no hypocracy.

You have not read anything we have said.

 

[dilloduck]

Read it all---just disagree with it. The bible is not acceptable proof for me. You even expect me to not interpret anything YOU say so. I know your not that naive newguy. It's implied throught your posts. But then again==you cite the bible====the bible is always right====therefore you are always right. Oh shit----here I go again.

 

[freeandfun1]

fun·da·men·tal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fnd-mntl)
adj.

Of or relating to the foundation or base; elementary.

Forming or serving as an essential component of a system or structure; central.

If being a "fundamentalist" means that I believe in the foundation or base of the Bible, then label me a fundamentalist.

I have tried numerous times to understand fundementalists yet it STILL all sounds like people who not only believe things as literally written and will accept no challenges.

If we are true to our beliefs, then accepting challenges would mean our accepting that our Bible is wrong. I myself understand that you have your beliefs just as I have mine. I cannot force you to believe me nor do I want to force you to believe me. You are funny in that you say that ". . . . all sounds like people who not only believe things as literally written . . . ." Well, of course we believe what was literally written. To do otherwise would be to question the word of God as provided to us. Who are we to change what He has presented to us?

when these very same people act in a manner that is contrary to thier belief they absolve them selves by using scripture from the VERY SAME BOOK.

Please clarify!

If another "strays" they feel obligated to inform the " sinner" that unless he changes his way he will not have eternal life.

I have never stated, nor has NewGuy that one must live a sinless life. That is what is so great about what Christ did for us. We can sin, but still be saved. Hell, I smoke pot and I sin everyday. Am I proud of that? No. But I also know that by TRULY accepting Christ and by knowing that Christ gave his life for mine, I will be forgiven. I just have to ask for forgiveness. I know some Christians don't believe that, but hey, just like you, I believe I know the TRUTH from praying and reading.

I know the concept of "other ways" is a sin in your viewpoint so those who believe differently have lost before they even started.

You have never lost your way unless you never accept that Christ died for your sins. If you accept that, God does not care if you are Catholic, Baptist, Pentecost or whatever. What other ways are you talking about? Islam? What? The only "other ways" that are a sin in my viewpoint are ways that do not accept Christ. You see, I believe in the Bible as provided to us by God. I don't believe in the Book of Mormon, the Quaran or any others as they directly contradict the teachings of Christ. That is the path that I have chosen.

I should not have challenge a belief sytem that accepts no challenges but feels free to challenge the beliefs of others.

I never challenged your beliefs. I have clearly said many times that you can choose the path you wish to follow. Just don't ask me to agree with you or your beliefs because to do so would mean that I am rejecting mine.

You asked a question and I offered an answer based on my beliefs. Now you are upset and you want to do exactly as you say that I am doing. You do not want to accept my beliefs, but insist I accept yours or I am a bigot.

If you want to follow the Bill Clinton belief system (you know, the one that changes to meet the needs of the moment) go ahead. I won't condemn you. I will just hope that you do learn on your own what is required according to the Bible that I believe in.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Read it all---just disagree with it.

So which way is it?

Is there hypocracy, or do you ignore what you don't want to believe?

All you have done here is decide like a slad bar, you would take what you want. Then call the rest of us believing the entire thing hypocrits.

The bible is not acceptable proof for me.

Then what is?

You even expect me to not interpret anything YOU say so. I know your not that naive newguy. It's implied throught your posts. But then again==you cite the bible====the bible is always right====there for you are always right.

Wrong.

I cite the Bible. It is YOUR JOB TO PROVE IT RIGHT.

Why do you keep denying this and pinning it on me?

 

[OCA]

or you were just setting everything up for a fight in the first place. [/B][/QUOTE]

BINGO! (A brilliant flash of thought rolls through free's head and the truth is revealed.)

Lol i'm just funning you cannabis but if you read this thread from the beginning Dildo was trolling for a fight all along.

 

[dilloduck]

You cite something that you cannot prove then demand that I prove it wrong---sorry charlie. Do you insist on this so someone will assist you in proving something that you have merely claimed to be right but cannot prove yourself?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
You cite something that you cannot prove then demand that I prove it wrong---sorry charlie.

Hold everything.

You think I cannot prove the Bible?



Do you even know where you are heading here?

Do you insist on this so someone will assist you in proving something that you have merely claimed to be right but cannot prove yourself?

You aren't even worthy of my TIME to prove it.

I have books taller than YOU in height that I had to prove it to myself with.

If you think I am believing something on blind faith, you are not playing with a full deck.

Few people on this board would say I believe ANYTHING without a rock solid foundation. -They may not agree, but it is a solid foundation.

Before I even attempt to show you anything further, given your responses all along, how about proving the Bible WRONG?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Zhukov
About what? Christ's divinity? Haha.

Seriously though?

God clearly says that he will not change his mind:

This is very important because by these unbreakable promises, God demonstrates that we can always depend upon His character. He is not going to suddenly change His mind about us and what He intends to do for us. According to His own revelation, we can have absolute certainty about His intentions and His love:

He Does Not Change
"I am the Lord. I do not change." (Malachi 3:6)
"Jesus the Messiah is the same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)

He Will Not Change His Mind
"God is not a man that He should lie, or a son of man that His purpose may be changed." (Numbers 23:19)

"He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world." (Ephesians 1:4)

He Will Not Change His Word
"I tell you the truth, till Heaven and Earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle from the law shall pass away until all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18)

"I the Lord have said the word and I will do it. I will not go back...my purpose will not be changed." (Ezekiel 24:14)

He Will Not Change His Plan
"God, by whom you have been marked out in His purpose, is unchanging, and He will make it complete." (I Thessalonians 5:24)

God is great enough, and strong enough to accomplish His purposes regardless of man's efforts to circumvent them. We can completely depend upon His intentions, and his character. This is one reason why Christians believe certain things about God, and His plan for mankind - because God has made unbreakable promises to us, about us, and Himself.

The whole trustworthiness of the Quran stands or falls upon the claim that Jesus, the Messiah did not die on the cross. Why? Because if Jesus did die on the cross and rise from the dead (as the Bible records) then there would be no need for a further revelation like the one Mohammad gave.

The Quran says in 4:157,

"They said, 'We killed the Messiah Jesus the Son of Mary, the Apostle of God' - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them."

The Bible, however, tells a different story. It states that Jesus's disciples saw Him die on the cross. John 19:26, 27 says, "When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved (John) standing nearby..."

Women were among Jesus's followers; and they saw Him die on the cross. John 19:25 reveals, "Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene."

These were people who all loved and followed Jesus. Those who followed Jesus were His disciples. It is hard to conceive that God, being a God of truth, would want to deceive those [who believe the truth] into thinking that Jesus died when He did not.

 

[Adam's Apple]

I just finished reading a book entitled The Complete Book of Bible Prophecy by Mark Hitchcock, and published by Tyndale House Publishers (1999). Gives a lot of information on this topic and might help you to get a better understanding of the end times. There are many good books available right now on this topic. Head out to Barnes & Nobles and look around in the Religion section.

 

[dilloduck]

WITHOUT A DOUBT you have a foundation and it is rock solid only because you do not allow yourself the flexibilty to see anything beyond your book.---I know---there is nothing beyond the book------I can do your whole spiel now-----ooops i cannot know your spiel because I don't believe as you. I call it blind faith and you try to defend it with reason. We are different. Appreciate it ! You would be out of things to talk about if everyone agreed with you.

(or do believers even disgree at times)

 

[Zhukov]

"They said, 'We killed the Messiah Jesus the Son of Mary, the Apostle of God' - but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them."

But they, like the jews, don't believe he was the messiah right? So maybe that means they killed him not, because Jesus wasn't God.

I don't know what the context of that verse would imply though.

Let's leave the New Testament out of it. Does Islam claim that God changed his mind according to anything in the Old Testament? See, I don't know how moslems regard the New Testament. I'm not entirely sure how they regard the Old Testament for that matter.

At any rate, since they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus to begin with, is there perhaps another example?

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by Adam's Apple
I just finished reading a book entitled The Complete Book of Bible Prophecy by Mark Hitchcock, and published by Tyndale House Publishers (1999). Gives a lot of information on this topic and might help you to get a better understanding of the end times. There are many good books available right now on this topic. Head out to Barnes & Nobles and look around in the Religion section.

you better run that book by newguy before you hoodwink us all into thinking something other than we should

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
WITHOUT A DOUBT you have a foundation and it is rock solid only because you do not allow yourself the flexibilty to see anything beyond your book.---I know---there is nothing beyond the book------I can do your whole spiel now-----ooops i cannot know your spiel because I don't believe as you. I call it blind faith and you try to defend it with reason. We are different. Appreciate it ! You would be out of things to talk about if everyone agreed with you.

(or do believers even disgree at times)

What part of the following quote in my above statement used more than 3 sylable words?

I have books taller than YOU in height that I had to prove it to myself with.

If you think I am believing something on blind faith, you are not playing with a full deck.

Few people on this board would say I believe ANYTHING without a rock solid foundation. -They may not agree, but it is a solid foundation.

Use the Bible to prove its self, use the references to understand what you need to look at if you do not know. Talking to you is like talking to a wall.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
you better run that book by newguy before you hoodwink us all into thinking something other than we should

We mock what we do not understand.

Pearls before swine trying to talk to you anymore.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
My broad understanding is this, according bible prophecy; The EU, led by the antichrist will invade The holy lands. a Russian, Muslim World, and alien army, led by an alien, will invade the holy lands. The jews will be persecuted, again. The Catholic Church will fall and after that, the leader of the EU will be revealed as the anti christ. Satan himself will inhabit the antichrist and will do battle with jesus. The faithful shall be taken unto god before the horror starts, others may be saved, but only later. There will be years of peace and stability. More destruction. God wins. The End?

What's this crap, you found it written on a bathroom wall?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by nycflasher
What's this crap, you found it written on a bathroom wall?

What is "crap" about it?

Are you discounting his understanding, or the whole idea?

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Zhukov
Let's leave the New Testament out of it.

Does Islam claim that God changed his mind according to anything in the Old Testament? See, I don't know how moslems regard the New Testament. I'm not entirely sure how they regard the Old Testament for that matter.

At any rate, since they don't believe in the divinity of Jesus to begin with, is there perhaps another example?

Muslims, Jews and Christians all accept the Old Testament as being the same. The only debate that exists is with the New Testament. However, if one leaves out the New Testament in a debate such as this, they cannot explain how Islam and Christianity see things differently. Therefore, I have to reference the teaching of the New Testament to try and prove my point.

Again, to leave out the New Testament would mean ignoring what it says about Jesus. Therefore, I can't leave it out in this debate.

But please note the following:

Muslims deny that Jesus was the Messiah. 600 years before Jesus died and 1200 years BEFORE Mohammed, God announced His plans for a Messiah to die for the sins of others. Notice what the Prophet Isaiah says about Jesus: (Isaiah is a book of the Old Testament)

"He was pierced through for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the chastising for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed...the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He did not open his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so He did not open His mouth. By oppression and judgment He was taken away...he was cut off from the land of the living. His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet He was with a rich man in His death. Because He has done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.” (Isaiah 53:5-9)

How do we know this prophecy refers to Jesus? Was there anyone in all of history to whom these words applied at one time? There is in fact, only one person -- Jesus the Messiah.

1. His body was pierced by a soldier
2. He was scourged by the Romans before being crucified
3. He was oppressed because during His trial the only testimony accepted from Him was that which would condemn Him
4. He never protested His crucifixion
5. His grave was assigned with the other men who were crucified with Him (two thieves)
6. A rich man, Nicodemus, (a secret follower of Jesus) asked for Jesus body and buried Him in a grave he had made for Himself

The weight of evidence, from Jesus’ followers, and from His enemies, is that He did indeed die on the cross; to be followed by His resurrection from the dead three days later.

 

[JohnGalt]

Originally posted by nycflasher
What's this crap, you found it written on a bathroom wall?

Hmm, a little slow. OK, read the other posts and you will see that he read parts of the bible (not a bathroom wall) and put together a reasonable scenario for future events based on current nations and bibical prophecies.

Nice thread guys, keep fighting!