Prophecy Clarified

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Muslims, Jews and Christians all accept the Old Testament as being the same.

See, now I thought there were subtle differences. The Quran saying that Abel killed Cain, and not the other way around, maybe something about Abraham's kids was different, something about one of the old Jewish kings, et cetera.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Zhukov
See, now I thought there were subtle differences. The Quran saying that Abel killed Cain, and not the other way around, maybe something about Abraham's kids was different, something about one of the old Jewish kings, et cetera.

Perhaps there are some differences that I did not know or cite. I never professed to be that knowledgable on either book (the Old Testament or the Quaran) and as far as the New Testament goes, there is much I am yet to understand. Give me more time.

But do you see where the major difference lies between Muslims and Christians?

 

[Jackass]

Hey Newguy...just curious...what religion do you belong to?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by JohnGalt
Hmm, a little slow. OK, read the other posts and you will see that he read parts of the bible (not a bathroom wall) and put together a reasonable scenario for future events based on current nations and bibical prophecies.

Nice thread guys, keep fighting!

Oh, I see. He's predicted the end of the world by reading the Bible

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
But do you see where the major difference lies between Muslims and Christians?

Yes, but I already knew that they didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus.

But since I'm neither a Christian nor a Moslem, using one to disprove the other isn't very useful.

Now, if Islam claims to agree with the Old Testament, but at the same time, in some fashion, contradicts it...well, you see what I'm getting at.

On the other hand, if they say that Jesus was at least a prophet of God, certainly some parts of the New Testament they must agree with. His preachings and so forth. So I suppose a Christian would say that you can't pick and chose what things you want to affirm Jesus said, while a Moslem would do just that, excluding those specific things that Jesus said that would paint him as the jewish Messiah.

Or do they perhaps believe Jesus thought he was the messiah, and behaved accordingly, though in reality he wasn't?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by Jackass
Hey Newguy...just curious...what religion do you belong to?

That is tricky since nearly every "group" would claim a different view than mine.

The blanket term would be "Born again Christian".
The problem is I don't compromise and I am fully convicted to make every bit of what I believe to be true by proof, not by blind faith.

As such, when most groups like to claim that many people can believe differently, but are all Christian, my standard response as to all questions is:

"That's fine, but what does the Bible say about that?"

-Hence GopJeff and I disagree on Catholocism, and I disagree with freeandfun1 on some other minor issues.

It doesn't make me right, it makes us different in view. The few critical points are where the salvation comes from and what it takes to get it. Anything else is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

-But that number is also nice to know if you need to construct a pin cusion that holds 1,000 angels. By the same token we all look to the Bible as a guide on how to live as instructed by divine authority.

I hope that makes sense. Even though what I believe is essentially the same as many others, we have our differences and can all claim salvation as proven by divine text and can generally prove the text divine as well.

How about you? Do you claim a faith?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Oh, I see. He's predicted the end of the world by reading the Bible

He didn't "predict" anything.

He tried to summarize the sequence of end times prophecy and ask for clarification.

A bold and noble endeavor considering the ramifications.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
Muslims, Jews and Christians all accept the Old Testament as being the same. The only debate that exists is with the New Testament. However, if one leaves out the New Testament in a debate such as this, they cannot explain how Islam and Christianity see things differently. Therefore, I have to reference the teaching of the New Testament to try and prove my point.

Again, to leave out the New Testament would mean ignoring what it says about Jesus. Therefore, I can't leave it out in this debate.

But please note the following:

Muslims deny that Jesus was the Messiah. 600 years before Jesus died and 1200 years BEFORE Mohammed, God announced His plans for a Messiah to die for the sins of others. Notice what the Prophet Isaiah says about Jesus: (Isaiah is a book of the Old Testament)

"He was pierced through for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the chastising for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed...the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Him. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet He did not open his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so He did not open His mouth. By oppression and judgment He was taken away...he was cut off from the land of the living. His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet He was with a rich man in His death. Because He has done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.” (Isaiah 53:5-9)

How do we know this prophecy refers to Jesus? Was there anyone in all of history to whom these words applied at one time? There is in fact, only one person -- Jesus the Messiah.

1. His body was pierced by a soldier
2. He was scourged by the Romans before being crucified
3. He was oppressed because during His trial the only testimony accepted from Him was that which would condemn Him
4. He never protested His crucifixion
5. His grave was assigned with the other men who were crucified with Him (two thieves)
6. A rich man, Nicodemus, (a secret follower of Jesus) asked for Jesus body and buried Him in a grave he had made for Himself

The weight of evidence, from Jesus’ followers, and from His enemies, is that He did indeed die on the cross; to be followed by His resurrection from the dead three days later.

Ok here's where you lose me----Isaiah said he didnt open his mouth yet the New Testament says that he spoke several times while on the cross--------how do you make the leap from not opening is mouth to not protesting his crucifixtion?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Ok here's where you lose me----Isaiah said he didnt open his mouth yet the New Testament says that he spoke several times while on the cross--------how do you make the leap from not opening is mouth to not protesting his crucifixtion?

Here you go again.

Where did it say He did not open His mouth?

 

[dilloduck]

READ !!!!

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
READ !!!!

Touche!

I only read the lower end of it.

Where it uses the point of not opening His mouth:
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

It is comparing to a sheep led to slaughter. In other words, he did not yell or speak against the death, but accepted it quietly. He did not complain or cry for help. He accepted His fate.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Ok here's where you lose me----Isaiah said he didnt open his mouth yet the New Testament says that he spoke several times while on the cross--------how do you make the leap from not opening is mouth to not protesting his crucifixtion?

Also, Jesus was silent before his accusers (Herod and Pilate), to the point where the Bible says they were astonished.

 

[007]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Also, Jesus was silent before his accusers (Herod and Pilate), to the point where the Bible says they were astonished.

He knew at that point that no matter what he may have said, it wouldn't have changed his destiny.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Read it all---just disagree with it. The bible is not acceptable proof for me. You even expect me to not interpret anything YOU say so. I know your not that naive newguy. It's implied throught your posts. But then again==you cite the bible====the bible is always right====therefore you are always right. Oh shit----here I go again.

Dillo, Don't let these guys get to you. When you're on a messageboard, people will tell you you're wrong. Newguy especially will probably tell you you're wrong, and he will post some scripture which sometimes will and sometimes will not seem to back up his point. Either way, he will insist it does back up his point. Maybe this doesn't make it right but "that's newguy".

I'm especially amused by his outright intimidation of the mod!

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr


I'm especially amused by his outright intimidation of the mod!

Care to clarify?

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Dillo, Don't let these guys get to you. When you're on a messageboard, people will tell you you're wrong. Newguy especially will probably tell you you're wrong, and he will post some scripture which sometimes will and sometimes will not seem to back up his point. Either way, he will insist it does back up his point. Maybe this doesn't make it right but "that's newguy".

I'm especially amused by his outright intimidation of the mod!

No worries. If I can teach em something,fine. If not, no biggie

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
No worries. If I can teach em something,fine. If not, no biggie

And what do you claim to teach?

Keep in mind teachers should know their subjects.

 

[dilloduck]

Hmmm-- manners would be a good start----it would make the following lessons more pleasant.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
Hmmm-- manners would be a good start----it would make the following lessons more pleasant.

Do I need to quote your first 50 posts?

Again, you ought to know the subject before you teach.

 

[dilloduck]

Knowing them and using them are two different things