Prop 8 in California

[sky dancer]

How does my wife and me being married in the State of California take anything away from any of you?

How is your faith diminished in any way? How is your Church hurt? How are you personally damaged?

 

[eots]

it erodes the fabric of society as a collective..if not limited

 

[sky dancer]

it erodes the fabric of society as a collective..if not limited

What is the 'fabric of society'? Can you point to that? Your statement cannot be substantiated. It is completely abstract. But you obviously believe that--is that a 'faith based belief'--one that evidence is not necessary for?

What does a marriage license do?

A licensed marriage gives the contracting parties access to hundreds of state benefits and protections including inheritance, divorce, hospital visitation, child custody, medical decisions, court immunities, wrongful death suits, and many more. Washington state has at least 423 benefits and protections that come with a legal marriage. The federal government has 1138 such benefits and protections including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Worker's Compensation, and contract rights.

Where can I find these benefits and protections listed?

The Washington state list can be found on this website under Washington State Laws. The Federal list can be found in the U. S. General Accounting Office report GAO/OGC-97-16 Defense of Marriage Act dated January 31, 1997 and Defense of Marriage Act: Update to Prior Report, GAO-04-353R dated January 23, 2004http://www.lmaw.org/faqs.htm#a3

 

[Truthspeaker]

This is a temporary set back. The tide is turning. Marriage equality will be the law of the land. Most people want gays and lesbian citizens to be treated the same in the world.

I am sure you are absolutely right that most people want gay marriage. I do believe you and I live in the most liberal state on the planet and it still couldn't get a majority vote. good luck everywhere else in the world, good luck in Africa, good luck in the middle east, good luck in Antarctica.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I believe gay relationships are far more abstract than our concept of the fabric society.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Anyone who believes the Biblical directive that human sexuality is a gift from God, to be shared between man and wife within the bonds of marriage, is branded “homophobic,” “hateful” or “discriminatory.” They are to be silenced by all means possible.


In Their Own Words


What you are about to read is just a quick, though disturbing, glance behind the homosexual lobby’s lavender curtain.


Below are two of the central demands put forth by homosexual activists in their “1972 Gay Rights Platform”:



“Repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent.” (This should send a chill down the spine of any parent. It would legally allow pedophiles, and homosexuals who were so inclined, to access your children and teens for their own predatory sexual gratification — so long as those children “consented” to having sex.)


“Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit.” (Once marriage is redefined, there can be no logical or ethical objection to any conceivable “marriage” combination, including polygamous “marriages.” By watering down marriage, “gay” activists and like-minded politicos [usually activist judges] remove this foundational institution’s intrinsic value.)



Here are just a few of the demands the homosexual lobby put forth during the 1987 (Homosexual) “March on Washington”:



“The government should provide protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation in employment, public accommodations and education just as protection is provided on race, creed, color, sex, or national origin.” ([ENDA] This would force all religious business owners, landlords and schools to abandon — under penalty of law — sincerely held and constitutionally protected religious beliefs and adopt a view of sexual morality that runs entirely counter to central teachings of every major world religion.)


“Anti-homophobic curriculum in the schools.” (Translation: pro-homosexual, government-mandated indoctrination. This is already occurring in thousands of public schools throughout America. Children are being force-fed the absurd notion that male-male anal sodomy is a perfectly acceptable, “alternative” sexual “orientation.” This calculated propaganda continues to expand, despite the fact that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has acknowledged that such behaviors place participants at extremely high risk for dangerous and often deadly infectious disease.)


“The government should ensure all public education programs include programs designed to combat lesbian/gay prejudice. … Institutions that discriminate against lesbian and gay people should be denied tax-exempt status and federal funding.” (This means churches, religious schools and religious businesses. Some jurisdictions, such as the state of New Jersey, have already begun removing tax-exempt status from church related ministries that refuse to provide “commitment ceremonies” to homosexuals.)


“Public and private institutions should support parenting by lesbian or gay couples.” (This is now being mandated in many states such as California and Massachusetts. In Massachusetts, Catholic Charities’ adoption service was recently forced to close down because it refused to assign children to homosexuals for adoption.)


The push for federal “hate crimes” legislation is another activist tool intended to silence traditional views on human sexuality and sexual morality. Similar laws have already been used around the world, and even right here at home, to persecute Christians and other traditionalists. For example, in 2004, 11 Christians were arrested in Philadelphia and charged with a “hate crime” for merely preaching the Bible at a public homosexual street festival. They could have served up to 47 years in prison.


More recently, a Christian photographer was dragged before the New Mexico Human Rights Division for refusing to photograph a “commitment ceremony” for a lesbian couple because lesbian behavior is inconsistent with Christianity.


Such stark examples of homofascist persecution continue to mount. And they’re by design. Noted homosexual activist and pornographer Clinton Fein addressed the “gay” agenda in a 2005 article candidly titled, “The Gay Agenda”:



On “hate crimes” laws: “Hate Crime laws are just the beginning. Once those are passed either federally or in all 50 states, begin campaign to eliminate homophobia entirely.”


On “hate thoughts” and “hate speech” laws: “Homophobic inclinations alone, even without any actions, should be criminal and punishable to the full extent of the law.”


On influencing public policy: “Make sure that gay representation permeates every level of governance.”


On “same-sex marriage”: “Demand the institution and then wreck it. James Dobson was right about our evil intentions. We just plan to be quicker than he thought.”


On “gays” in the Church: “Reclaim Jesus. He was a Jewish queer to begin with, and don’t let anyone forget it.”



The homosexual lobby’s goals have been clearly defined for decades. But for any goal to be successfully achieved, clever stratagem and sound methodology must be diligently applied.


In their manuscript, After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90’s (1989, Doubleday/Bantam), Harvard educated marketing experts Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen meticulously laid out the homosexual lobby’s blueprint for success in what is widely regarded as the handbook for the “gay” agenda.


They devised a three-pronged approach that the homosexual lobby has masterfully implemented in subsequent years: Desensitization, Jamming and Conversion.


Kirk and Madsen summarized their approach this way:



Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers.

Give potential protectors a just cause.

Make gays look good.

Make victimizers look bad.
cwfa.org/articles/14696/CFI/family/index.htm Concerned Women for America - Unmasking The “Gay” Agenda

Gay rights activism

In 1987 Kirk partnered with Hunter Madsen (who used the pen name "Erastes Pill") to write an essay, The Overhauling of Straight America, which was published in Guide Magazine. They argued that gays must portray themselves in a positive way to straight America, and that the main aim of making homosexuality acceptable could be achieved by getting Americans "to think that it is just another thing, with a shrug of their shoulders". Then "your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won". The pair developed their argument in the 1989 book "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the ’90s." The book outlined a public relations strategy for the LGBT movement. After its publication Kirk appeared in the pages of Newsweek, Time and The Washington Post.

The book is often critically described by social conservatives as important to the success of the LGBT Movement in the 90's and as part of an alleged "homosexual agenda". The conservative Christian group Focus on the Family claim that,

It is an agenda that they basically set in the late 1980s, in a book called 'After the Ball,' where they laid out a six-point plan for how they could transform the beliefs of ordinary Americans with regard to homosexual behavior — in a decade-long time frame.... They admit it privately, but they will not say that publicly. In their private publications, homosexual activists make it very clear that there is an agenda. The six-point agenda that they laid out in 1989 was explicit: Talk about gays and gayness as loudly and as often as possible... Portray gays as victims, not as aggressive challengers... Give homosexual protectors a just cause... Make gays look good... Make the victimizers look bad... Get funds from corporate America..[1]

In fact After the Ball was far from being a "private publication", having been published by the mainstream press Doubleday[citation needed]. It was widely marketed, publicised and reviewed[citation needed]. Far from not discussing the agenda publicly, Kirk repeatedly and openly discussed it[citation needed].

[edit]

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Anyone who believes the Biblical directive that human sexuality is a gift from God, to be shared between man and wife within the bonds of marriage, is branded “homophobic,” “hateful” or “discriminatory.” They are to be silenced by all means possible.


In Their Own Words


What you are about to read is just a quick, though disturbing, glance behind the homosexual lobby’s lavender curtain.


Below are two of the central demands put forth by homosexual activists in their “1972 Gay Rights Platform”:

using your standards and tactics we could say the agenda of christians in America is to bomb abortion clinics and to kill people in the name of protesting a medical procedure (what some consider murder). there are christian activists who say things in print that most christians have nothing to do with.

you may as well say al qeada represents Islam

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Thanks for the applause, congratulations, you are not smart.

smart? you imagine we are in some sort of contest about who is smart and who is not? buddy, let me tell you something...better yet read my mind. I'm sure you know what I'm thinking.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Dear GOD, your posts are a blithering, useless waste of time. Perhaps you should get a productive hobby, one that doesn't require you to actually use words.

Dear god, please pick up the phone.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If you would revisit my posts then why don't you. What is holding you back. Fear of truth and right-thinking. I swear, this phony rebellion thing you liberals got going on, I don't get it. It's so late 90's. Just like the phrase eracism, and the pink triangle revolution in high schools. and gay pride month, and gay history month and bestiality month. Oh yeah that phrase written in rainbow colors "Celebrate Diversity" I can hear the lisp as I am reading it. It's a tired act and there is nothing wrong with good core Judeo-Christian values.

lisp? buddy who do you think we liberals are? good core judeo-christ values went out the window with the corruption that comes with organized religion. sure good people still possess those universal values, but alas not all are christians. if you think there are values that are owned by christians you really do need a check up

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You were here, but you see the reason people keep attacking me specifically is because the truth has a certain ring to it. You can deny it using whatever Socratic argument you like, just look where it got the society of Socrates.


Mormons have taken a brave stand, with unshaking determination in the face of insults, vandalism and lies. It won't be long and won't surprise me when things go back to the way they were in 1840's Missouri when mobs assembled against us and murdered and raped our wives and children and the majority of our Men. When you stick your neck out there, somebody always wants to take a chop at it. that's why people feel the need to attack mormons, because they stand for something and don't care about "political correctness", only correctness.

martyrdom?
your victimization is showing

 

[KittenKoder]

lisp? buddy who do you think we liberals are? good core judeo-christ values went out the window with the corruption that comes with organized religion. sure good people still possess those universal values, but alas not all are christians. if you think there are values that are owned by christians you really do need a check up

Special addition from the smart ass:

For example, christian priests of all cults, most in catholic, have been found to be abusing young boys (bishops for Mormons).

The Boy Scouts have been found to just another segregationist group which teaches fewer values than High School Football.

 

[KittenKoder]

martyrdom?
your victimization is showing

Considering he is just NOW using the persecution as a shield instead of realizing that he is doing the EXACT same thing to the gay community, this is the first step.

 

[DiveCon]

Special addition from the smart ass:

For example, christian priests of all cults, most in catholic, have been found to be abusing young boys (bishops for Mormons).

The Boy Scouts have been found to just another segregationist group which teaches fewer values than High School Football.

you clearly know next to nothing about the boy scouts then

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Considering he is just NOW using the persecution as a shield instead of realizing that he is doing the EXACT same thing to the gay community, this is the first step.

that all important first step. it's amazing to watch.

 

[Truthspeaker]

martyrdom?
your victimization is showing

That's fine if you want to call it that.

 

[Truthspeaker]

smart? you imagine we are in some sort of contest about who is smart and who is not? buddy, let me tell you something...better yet read my mind. I'm sure you know what I'm thinking.

I saw deep in to your mind, and I didn't like what I saw. It was a dream of me asking you to the gay prom and you said yes. I am sorry to disappoint you upon your waking moments.

 

[Truthspeaker]

lisp? buddy who do you think we liberals are? good core judeo-christ values went out the window with the corruption that comes with organized religion. sure good people still possess those universal values, but alas not all are christians. if you think there are values that are owned by christians you really do need a check up

Definitely owned mostly by Judeo christians, and by a few others.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Special addition from the smart ass:

For example, christian priests of all cults, most in catholic, have been found to be abusing young boys (bishops for Mormons).

The Boy Scouts have been found to just another segregationist group which teaches fewer values than High School Football.

Specifics please?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

That's fine if you want to call it that.

I calls em as I sees em.