Prop 8 in California

The LDS church only reported $2,078 in these contributions. By contrast, Dobson's Focus on the Family reported nearly $84,000, and the National Organization for Marriage reported over $210,000 in non-monetary donations. Yet the LDS -- who led the Yesapalooza on 8, only reported about $2,000? Oooops:


Fred Karger, Founder of Californians Against Hate, today filed a Sworn Complaint with the Enforcement Division of the Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC). In the complaint he accused The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) of not reporting numerous non monetary contributions to ProtectMarriage.com – Yes on 8, A Project of California Renewal I.D. # 1302592.

Karger contends that The Mormon Church organized phone banks from Utah and Idaho, sent direct mail to voters, transported people to California over several weekends, used the LDS NewsRoom to send out News Releases to promote their activities, walked precincts, ran a speakers bureau, distributed thousands of lawn signs and other campaign material, organized a “surge to election day,” had Church leaders travel to California, set up very elaborate web sites, produced at least 9 commercials and 4 other video broadcasts and conducted at least 2 satellite simulcasts over 5 Western states. All of these actions were geared toward nonmembers.

In addition to the formal FPPC complaint, a letter was also sent today to FPPC Chairman Ross Johnson, California Attorney General Edmund G. Brown, Jr. and Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff expanding on the complaint. [Go here to read the letter]

In the letter, a copy of which is below, Karger stated that 2 other organizations that were also involved in the Yes on Prop 8 campaign, reported substantial non monetary contributions to ProtectMarriage.com. The National Organization for Marriage (NOM) of Princeton, New Jersey reported $210,634,75 and James Dobson’s Focus on the Family of Colorado Springs, Colorado reported $83,790.00. No non monetary contributions could be found from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In addition to spreading hate, it looks like they were spreading the non monetary wealth a little too. What would Joe the Plumber say? Excerpts from the letter:

All of these unreported contributions by the Mormon Church were on top of its massive fund-raising effort; the largest ever undertaken on a social issue ballot initiative. [...]

Under California Election Law organizations such as the Mormon Church are not required to report activities if they strictly constitute “member communication.” We will explain why we feel that the activities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints went far beyond “member communication,” and were instead specifically targeted at California’s 17 million voters. By not reporting any of these non monetary contributions, the Mormon Church violated the Political Reform Act.

This stuff doesn't sound very do unto othery to me.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/11/californians-against-hate-file-suit.html
 
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I have seen now in a least three different places a strange fear-mongering lie passed around Mormon circles. The lie goes like this: If Proposition 8 does not pass and same-sex marriages continue, the Mormon church will either be forced to "shut down their temples" or will do so on their own accord. Apparently, this same argument was used when the states and courts began making laws against inter-racial marriage legal.

It's absurd on the face of it. The Mormon church, or any church for that matter, hasn't EVER been forced in the U.S. to marry people they didn't want to, whether it was because they were inter-faith marriages, inter-racial marriages, marriages of people who didn't meet religious requirements (like temple recommends), etc. For 200 years that has been the case, why would that change now.

The Big Mormon Email Lie (Daddy, Papa and Me)

There is a fear that this will happen to be sure, but it is speculation. You can't say that it's impossible. There would be numerous discrimination lawsuits filed against the church, and the tax exempt status could be threatened. No one knows what could have happened. But to be sure, our religious values are more important to us than recognizing your unnatural unions as marriages. So we'd rather not risk it. Some may not like it but it's what we believe. You will get a chance to figure things out in the next life, when temptations are taken away. We don't believe you are going to hell so we aren't that worried about about your poutings.
 
There is a fear that this will happen to be sure, but it is speculation. You can't say that it's impossible. There would be numerous discrimination lawsuits filed against the church, and the tax exempt status could be threatened. No one knows what could have happened. But to be sure, our religious values are more important to us than recognizing your unnatural unions as marriages. So we'd rather not risk it. Some may not like it but it's what we believe. You will get a chance to figure things out in the next life, when temptations are taken away. We don't believe you are going to hell so we aren't that worried about about your poutings.

I'm not asking YOU as a Mormon to recognize and approve of my marriage or think its natural. I don't find homophobia natural. I don't need that. The people who matter to me recognize and approve my marriage.

What I want is for YOUR CHURCH to stop interfering in my civil right to marry.

Come back and talk to me when you have developed some wisdom from your LDS.
 
The LDS church only reported $2,078 in these contributions. By contrast, Dobson's Focus on the Family reported nearly $84,000, and the National Organization for Marriage reported over $210,000 in non-monetary donations. Yet the LDS -- who led the Yesapalooza on 8, only reported about $2,000? Oooops:


Fred Karger, Founder of Californians Against Hate, today filed a Sworn Complaint with the Enforcement Division of the Fair Political Practices Commission (FPPC). In the complaint he accused The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) of not reporting numerous non monetary contributions to ProtectMarriage.com – Yes on 8, A Project of California Renewal I.D. # 1302592.

Karger contends that The Mormon Church organized phone banks from Utah and Idaho, sent direct mail to voters, transported people to California over several weekends, used the LDS NewsRoom to send out News Releases to promote their activities, walked precincts, ran a speakers bureau, distributed thousands of lawn signs and other campaign material, organized a “surge to election day,” had Church leaders travel to California, set up very elaborate web sites, produced at least 9 commercials and 4 other video broadcasts and conducted at least 2 satellite simulcasts over 5 Western states. All of these actions were geared toward nonmembers.

In addition to the formal FPPC complaint, a letter was also sent today to FPPC Chairman Ross Johnson, California Attorney General Edmund G. Brown, Jr. and Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff expanding on the complaint. [Go here to read the letter]

In the letter, a copy of which is below, Karger stated that 2 other organizations that were also involved in the Yes on Prop 8 campaign, reported substantial non monetary contributions to ProtectMarriage.com. The National Organization for Marriage (NOM) of Princeton, New Jersey reported $210,634,75 and James Dobson’s Focus on the Family of Colorado Springs, Colorado reported $83,790.00. No non monetary contributions could be found from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In addition to spreading hate, it looks like they were spreading the non monetary wealth a little too. What would Joe the Plumber say? Excerpts from the letter:

All of these unreported contributions by the Mormon Church were on top of its massive fund-raising effort; the largest ever undertaken on a social issue ballot initiative. [...]

Under California Election Law organizations such as the Mormon Church are not required to report activities if they strictly constitute “member communication.” We will explain why we feel that the activities of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints went far beyond “member communication,” and were instead specifically targeted at California’s 17 million voters. By not reporting any of these non monetary contributions, the Mormon Church violated the Political Reform Act.

This stuff doesn't sound very do unto othery to me.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/11/californians-against-hate-file-suit.html



It's all just sour grapes.
 
I'm not asking YOU as a Mormon to recognize and approve of my marriage or think its natural. I don't find homophobia natural. I don't need that. The people who matter to me recognize and approve my marriage.

What I want is for YOUR CHURCH to stop interfering in my civil right to marry.

Come back and talk to me when you have developed some wisdom from your LDS.

I don't know why you keep attacking me. We won't convince each other.
 
I don't know why you keep attacking me. We won't convince each other.

Proposition 8 is the issue in this thread. Take some responsibility for the truth--YOUR church knocked itself out to pass this anti-marriaqe equality legislation and to take away a right that the state of California had already granted.
 
Proposition 8 is the issue in this thread. Take some responsibility for the truth--YOUR church knocked itself out to pass this anti-marriaqe equality legislation and to take away a right that the state of California had already granted.
technically, the "state" hadnt granted it
it was forced by the courts, the "state" passed prop 8
 
technically, the "state" hadnt granted it
it was forced by the courts, the "state" passed prop 8

Sky is a huge admirer of Father Time, who believes the power of the majority vote should be limited for "the good of everyone" and that the government is a separate entity from the people, and should be so. Even if he/she/it comprehended the difference between the courts and the state, you don't expect him/her/it to be anything but offended, outraged, and frightened by it, do you?
 
"Yes You Can't" should be the motto for gays. I hope the supporters of the gay-marriage ban would chant that. "Yes You Can't" "Yes You Can't" while showing off your wedding ring. Because if polygamist can be discriminated from having multi-wifes, then it can happen to you. I say allow multi-wives, and you can have your gay marriages. More women women, yeah yeah.

First you're going to have to prove to us that you're capable of completely satisfying ONE woman, let alone multiples.
 
I'm not asking YOU as a Mormon to recognize and approve of my marriage or think its natural. I don't find homophobia natural. I don't need that. The people who matter to me recognize and approve my marriage.

What I want is for YOUR CHURCH to stop interfering in my civil right to marry.

Come back and talk to me when you have developed some wisdom from your LDS.

you have a civil right to live with and have sex with a woman...you are not in a recognized marriage..nor should you be..you a free to choose to be a deviant..but not free to deviate society on a whole to accommodate you
 
Proposition 8 is the issue in this thread. Take some responsibility for the truth--YOUR church knocked itself out to pass this anti-marriaqe equality legislation and to take away a right that the state of California had already granted.

Like I said I wish we could take all the credit, but can't because numbers don't lie, we are a small minority. Money means far less. People are smarter than you give them credit for. They are generally smarter than you.
 
Like I said I wish we could take all the credit, but can't because numbers don't lie, we are a small minority. Money means far less. People are smarter than you give them credit for. They are generally smarter than you.

Don't you know that any time leftists lose, it's NEVER because their message just sucks? It's always because the people are too stupid to know what's good for them, or too gullible to tell they're being "lied" to, or just blindly vote for whomever spends the most money.
 
you have a civil right to live with and have sex with a woman...you are not in a recognized marriage..nor should you be..you a free to choose to be a deviant..but not free to deviate society on a whole to accommodate you


I don't know what further recognition anyone can have for a marriage. I am civilly married in the state of California. I was married by my Buddhist Lama with my entire Buddhist community in attendance.

I could care less if Christians or Mormons recognize my marriage. I care when my civil rights are stumped on.
 
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Don't you know that any time leftists lose, it's NEVER because their message just sucks? It's always because the people are too stupid to know what's good for them, or too gullible to tell they're being "lied" to, or just blindly vote for whomever spends the most money.

This is a temporary set back. The tide is turning. Marriage equality will be the law of the land. Most people want gays and lesbian citizens to be treated the same in the world.
 
I don't know what further recognition anyone can have for a marriage. I am civilly married in the state of California. I was married by my Buddhist Lama with my entire Buddhist community in attendance.

I could care less if Christians or Mormons recognize my marriage. I care when my civil rights are stumped on.

well the further recognition would be the same recognition given to heterosexual marriage wouldn't it..and if that was the case this thread would not exist
 
well the further recognition would be the same recognition given to heterosexual marriage wouldn't it..and if that was the case this thread would not exist


Recognition is not the point. Over one thousand federal and state civil rights are the point in marriage equality.

I'm not interested in your church recognition.
 
According to a report given to the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. General Accounting Office, here are a few of the 1,138 benefits the United States government provides to legally married couples:


Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave
Immigration
Insurance Breaks
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison

Here are a few of the state level benefits within the United States:


Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits

Read the full list of legalized marriage benefits
Marriage Benefits
 
According to a report given to the Office of the General Counsel of the U.S. General Accounting Office, here are a few of the 1,138 benefits the United States government provides to legally married couples:


Access to Military Stores
Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Bereavement Leave
Immigration
Insurance Breaks
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Social Security Survivor Benefits
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Tax Breaks
Veteran’s Discounts
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison

Here are a few of the state level benefits within the United States:


Assumption of Spouse’s Pension
Automatic Inheritance
Automatic Housing Lease Transfer
Bereavement Leave
Burial Determination
Child Custody
Crime Victim’s Recovery Benefits
Divorce Protections
Domestic Violence Protection
Exemption from Property Tax on Partner’s Death
Immunity from Testifying Against Spouse
Insurance Breaks
Joint Adoption and Foster Care
Joint Bankruptcy
Joint Parenting (Insurance Coverage, School Records)
Medical Decisions on Behalf of Partner
Certain Property Rights
Reduced Rate Memberships
Sick Leave to Care for Partner
Visitation of Partner’s Children
Visitation of Partner in Hospital or Prison
Wrongful Death (Loss of Consort) Benefits

Read the full list of legalized marriage benefits
Marriage Benefits


civil contract should cover most of that...
 
Eight different kinds of marriages mentioned in the Bible:

The standard nuclear family: Genesis 2:24

Polygynous marriage: Lamech, in Genesis 4:19

Levirate Marriage: The name of this type of marriage is derived from the Latin word "levir," which means "brother-in-law." Genesis 38:6-10

A man, a woman and her property -- a female slave: As described in Genesis 16, Sarah and Abram were infertile.

A man, one or more wives, and some concubines: A man could keep numerous concubines, in addition to one or more wives. These women held an even lower status than a wife. Genesis 21:10,

A male soldier and a female prisoner of war: Numbers 31:1-18

A male rapist and his victim: Deuteronomy 22:28-29

A male and female slave: Exodus 21:4
Types of marriages in the Bible, and today


Types of marriages in the Bible, and today
 
civil contract should cover most of that...

It doesn't. If it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Civil marriage is what we want with the full rights that other married couples have. We want to take care of our families and live in peace.
 

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