Pro-life? or anti-abortion?

[AllieBaba]

Here are these poor women, going to have a abortion, knowing damn well what they are doing and probably none too happy about it. They get out of the car and here are these people yelling at them, foaming at the mouth with rage, telling them they are murderers and they shall rot in a fiery hell. I doubt those people could ever understand how horrible they really are themselves.

I am against abortion, but I don't identify with this rabid, re-criminalisation movement.

Spreading fear by bombings, murder and assault is not 'pro-life'. Dr Tiller was murdered outside his church.

Here's the kind of guy who scares the crap out of me.

"Let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... If a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple.... Our goal is a Christian Nation... we have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want Pluralism. We want theocracy. Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules."

[Randall Terry, Head of Operation Rescue, from The News Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Aug 15, 1993]

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed... If we're going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over... Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead."

[Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, at the Aug 8, 1995 U.S. Taxpayers Alliance Banquet in Washington DC, talking about doctors who perform abortions and volunteer escorts]

Randall Terry is a nutcase.

So is Sky.

I already said that it would just be a matter of time before she started to propose ways to shut up the opposition. Stand by, she's on that march

 

[Sky Dancer]

Abstinence only is a form of pregnancy prevention for religious people who are only allowed to have sex to produce babies.

Contraception is for everyone else with a healthy sex life.

The anti-choice movement not only is ant-abortion, but they anti-contraception. They are abstinence only religious fanatics.

 

[spectrumc01]

Here are these poor women, going to have a abortion, knowing damn well what they are doing and probably none too happy about it. They get out of the car and here are these people yelling at them, foaming at the mouth with rage, telling them they are murderers and they shall rot in a fiery hell. I doubt those people could ever understand how horrible they really are themselves.

I am against abortion, but I don't identify with this rabid, re-criminalisation movement.

Spreading fear by bombings, murder and assault is not 'pro-life'. Dr Tiller was murdered outside his church.

Here's the kind of guy who scares the crap out of me.

"Let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... If a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple.... Our goal is a Christian Nation... we have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want Pluralism. We want theocracy. Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules."

[Randall Terry, Head of Operation Rescue, from The News Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Aug 15, 1993]

"When I, or people like me, are running the country, you'd better flee, because we will find you, we will try you, and we will execute you. I mean every word of it. I will make it part of my mission to see to it that they are tried and executed... If we're going to have true reformation in America, it is because men once again, if I may use a worn out expression, have righteous testoserone flowing through their veins. They are not afraid of contempt for their contemporaries. They are not even here to get along. They are here to take over... Somebody like Susan Smith should be dead. She should be dead now. Some people will go, "Well how do you know God doesn't have a wonderful plan for her life?" He does, it's listed in the Bible. His plan for her is that she should be dead."

[Randall Terry, founder of Operation Rescue, at the Aug 8, 1995 U.S. Taxpayers Alliance Banquet in Washington DC, talking about doctors who perform abortions and volunteer escorts]

Randall Terry is a nutcase.

I wonder if the woman walking into the clinc turned and asked one of the protesters to adopt their baby right now if they would?

 

[Immanuel]

Bull. I am completely against abortion. I am NOT in favor of re-criminalizing it.

You're misrepresenting my position. That's what fanatics do.

Oh? And you are not mis-representing our position?

BS.

Immie

How am I misrepresenting YOUR position? You are in favor of re-criminalizing abortion. Are you not?

You are telling me that I support abortion and I do not.

You are thinking in black and white, which is the position of a fanatic.

Are you even against abortion when it could save the life of the woman?

I AM NOT in favor of recriminalizing abortion because doing so will do nothing at all to reduce the number of abortions.

You are telling me that I do not support life and I do. You are more than happy to throw negative connotations on my point of view but God help anyone that would do so with your anti-choice point of view.

And I am for defending the life of the mother as well, if and when the life of the mother is actually in danger, which is actually the reason given in less than 3% of abortions. See the same page mentioned above.

Immie

 

[emilynghiem]

If pro-life means anti-abortion why not just use anti-abortion instead? Unless, the anti-abortion people don't want to viewed in a negative way. As pro means for, and anti means against. Why try to mislead people in the first place? Or are they just being pretensious?

I think they are trying to align with the idea of protecting "life and liberty" for all persons.
That is a founding principle in the laws they are trying to invoke and apply more broadly.

You are right, that to be this consistent, you would have to support preventing termination of any life. The best way I know to do this, without getting into legal debates as to where to draw the line where to allow termination and where not to, is to PREVENT from ever having to make that choice.

PREVENT capital crime so there is no need to invoke capital punishment (even though it remains on the books as a legal choice)
PREVENT adultery, unwanted sex pregnancy or children, so there is no abortion
PREVENT unresolved conflicts from escalating into war (that remains a choice)

This can best be done by working togethe ro nthe cause of the problems, not fighting after the fact. If we waste resources and divide over the legislation, we could have put those resources into prevention taht would not violate anyone's beliefs about the laws!

 

[Immanuel]

Abstinence only is a form of pregnancy prevention for religious people who are only allowed to have sex to produce babies.

Contraception is for everyone else with a healthy sex life.

The anti-choice movement not only is ant-abortion, but they anti-contraception. They are abstinence only religious fanatics.

You are painting with a mighty broad brush there.

Immie

 

[spectrumc01]

Which are just more labels you throw around.

Immie

It's not a label, it's the truth. Check out this training manual. Not only are these folks against abortion, they are also against contraception.

They are abstinence only proponents.

Isn't abstinence contraception?

Why yes, yes it is.

Liar.

Contraception - n. prevention of fertilization of an ovum as by special devices or drugs.

Abstain - v. to voluntarilty do with out.

Why no, no it isn't.

Not a liar. just wrong.

 

[AllieBaba]

Abstinence only is a form of pregnancy prevention for religious people who are only allowed to have sex to produce babies.

Contraception is for everyone else with a healthy sex life.

The anti-choice movement not only is ant-abortion, but they anti-contraception. They are abstinence only religious fanatics.

Oh I see.

LOLOLOLLLLLL....

Any contraception proposed by RELIGIOUS people isn't really contraception. It's something else.

What a lying, disingenuous pile of dog crap.

Let's define contracteption. Not that it will matter, since we already defined Pro-Life and the kill baby crowd is still squawking that it means something else.

This is the way they work. If something isn't looking good for them, they just change the meanings, and pretend that's what they meant all along.

Here's contraception, folks. And yes, abstinence is a form of contraception. It isn't null and void because it's a form of contraception advocated by Christians.

"con·tra·cep·tion (k

n

tr

-s

p

sh

n)
n. Intentional prevention of conception or impregnation through the use of various devices, agents, drugs, sexual practices, or surgical procedures."

contraception - definition of contraception by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Abstinence only is a form of pregnancy prevention for religious people who are only allowed to have sex to produce babies.

Contraception is for everyone else with a healthy sex life.

The anti-choice movement not only is ant-abortion, but they anti-contraception. They are abstinence only religious fanatics.

You are painting with a mighty broad brush there.

Immie

Then let me qualify that. The training manual for the anti-abortion movement that I posted is abstinence only. Feminists for Life is abstinence only.

Individuals who are not part of the movement but who are anti-abortion may have a more liberal approach and be ok with other forms of contraception than abstinence.

 

[Anachronism]

“If the anti-abortion movement took a tenth of the energy they put into noisy theatrics and devoted it to improving the lives of children who have been born into lives of poverty, violence, and neglect, they could make a world shine.”

Michael J. Tucker

What Mr. Tucker seems to fail to realize is that we already do; and we do it in the most ineffective and worthless way possible.... Through our TAX DOLLARS.

Give us that money back to spend on effective, useful PRIVATE programs and you'll see results. Of course those same people will be required to actually DO SOMETHING for that money/support instead of simply showing up with their hand out, but them's the breaks.

 

[chikenwing]

'Babies' are not being aborted, fetuses are. Nonetheless, abortion is the taking of a potential human life.


OMG!!!!! shakes head feels baffled by such utter nonsense!!! so you were able to over come your only might become a human potential congratulations you didn't wind up a gold fish.

IT nothing but a human at any stage after conception,we go through many physical changes in our life span from very small,young and vibrant to old ang worn,but at NO time was the potential for anything but HUMAN life.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's not a label, it's the truth. Check out this training manual. Not only are these folks against abortion, they are also against contraception.

They are abstinence only proponents.

Isn't abstinence contraception?

Why yes, yes it is.

Liar.

Contraception - n. prevention of fertilization of an ovum as by special devices or drugs.

Abstain - v. to voluntarilty do with out.

Why no, no it isn't.

Not a liar. just wrong.

No problem. Allie likes to name call. Liar is one of her favorite terms. Thank you for pointing out that abstinence may be birth control but is not contraception in the sense of allowing human beings to be sexual and not procreate.

 

[AllieBaba]

Oh? And you are not mis-representing our position?

BS.

Immie

How am I misrepresenting YOUR position? You are in favor of re-criminalizing abortion. Are you not?

You are telling me that I support abortion and I do not.

You are thinking in black and white, which is the position of a fanatic.

Are you even against abortion when it could save the life of the woman?

I AM NOT in favor of recriminalizing abortion because doing so will do nothing at all to reduce the number of abortions.

You are telling me that I do not support life and I do. You are more than happy to throw negative connotations on my point of view but God help anyone that would do so with your anti-choice point of view.

And I am for defending the life of the mother as well, if and when the life of the mother is actually in danger, which is actually the reason given in less than 3% of abortions. See the same page mentioned above.

Immie

Actually, since de-criminalizing abortion resulted in a huge and sustained increase in abortions (though we have no way to know exactly HOW many are really performed since PP refuses to disclose) it makes sense that criminalizing it will result in a decrease. People who think nothing of taking advantage of a legal procedure will think twice about seeking illegal assistance; and will either take the necessary precautions and not get pregnant in the first place, or deal with the consequences when they do.

 

[Anachronism]

The anti-choice movement not only is ant-abortion, but they anti-contraception. They are abstinence only religious fanatics.

The "abstinance only" crowd, I will agree with you on. However, most of us are not "abstinance only".

For example.... I have no problem using contraception, and do so every time I engage in a sexual act. HOWEVER, I also do not engage in casual sex and make it very clear to every one of my partners that if the contraception doesn't work, that Abortion is NOT an option so far as I'm concerned. That stance HAS cost me the opportunity to engage in sexual activity with a number of women over the years. So be it. We're both probably better off for that decision.

 

[AllieBaba]

Isn't abstinence contraception?

Why yes, yes it is.

Liar.

Contraception - n. prevention of fertilization of an ovum as by special devices or drugs.

Abstain - v. to voluntarilty do with out.

Why no, no it isn't.

Not a liar. just wrong.

No problem. Allie likes to name call. Liar is one of her favorite terms. Thank you for pointing out that abstinence may be birth control but is not contraception in the sense of allowing human beings to be sexual and not procreate.

It's not calling names, it's an observation of your lies.

You lie. Abstinence is contraception.

I provided the definition of contraception.

Contraception is not abstinence. Abstinence is the act of not having sex. When you don't have sex in order not to get pregnant it's called contraception.

Liar.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Oh? And you are not mis-representing our position?

BS.

Immie

How am I misrepresenting YOUR position? You are in favor of re-criminalizing abortion. Are you not?

You are telling me that I support abortion and I do not.

You are thinking in black and white, which is the position of a fanatic.

Are you even against abortion when it could save the life of the woman?

I AM NOT in favor of recriminalizing abortion because doing so will do nothing at all to reduce the number of abortions.

You are telling me that I do not support life and I do. You are more than happy to throw negative connotations on my point of view but God help anyone that would do so with your anti-choice point of view.

And I am for defending the life of the mother as well, if and when the life of the mother is actually in danger, which is actually the reason given in less than 3% of abortions. See the same page mentioned above.

Immie

Duly noted. That makes you moderate, not extremist. I didn't realize you were NOT in favor of recriminalizing. This makes you lean more in the pro-choice direction than the anti-abortion direction.

When you choose to use the collective term, 'our' in reference to the movement rather than your own personal feelings, it makes me think you're in league with Randall Terry.

Clearly, you are not.

 

[Sky Dancer]

The anti-choice movement not only is ant-abortion, but they anti-contraception. They are abstinence only religious fanatics.

The "abstinance only" crowd, I will agree with you on. However, most of us are not "abstinance only".

For example.... I have no problem using contraception, and do so every time I engage in a sexual act. HOWEVER, I also do not engage in casual sex and make it very clear to every one of my partners that if the contraception doesn't work, that Abortion is NOT an option so far as I'm concerned. That stance HAS cost me the opportunity to engage in sexual activity with a number of women over the years. So be it. We're both probably better off for that decision.

Feminists for life is large, noisy anti-abortion, abstinence only group. The training manual I provided earlier in the thread is yet ANOTHER abstinence only extremist group.

Randall Terry of Operation Rescue thinks Christians should NEVER use abortion and have as many babies as they can to produce soldiers for his theocratic movement.

There are some fanatics out there in your camp.

Own them.

 

[spectrumc01]

Contraception - n. prevention of fertilization of an ovum as by special devices or drugs.

Abstain - v. to voluntarilty do with out.

Why no, no it isn't.

Not a liar. just wrong.

No problem. Allie likes to name call. Liar is one of her favorite terms. Thank you for pointing out that abstinence may be birth control but is not contraception in the sense of allowing human beings to be sexual and not procreate.

It's not calling names, it's an observation of your lies.

You lie. Abstinence is contraception.

I provided the definition of contraception.

Contraception is not abstinence. Abstinence is the act of not having sex. When you don't have sex in order not to get pregnant it's called contraception.

Liar.

Hmmm... your definition of Contraception and the one in the "Websters new world dictionary" july 2003 are different. So I suppose yours is right because your using it?

 

[Immanuel]

“If the anti-abortion movement took a tenth of the energy they put into noisy theatrics and devoted it to improving the lives of children who have been born into lives of poverty, violence, and neglect, they could make a world shine.”

Michael J. Tucker

What Mr. Tucker seems to fail to realize is that we already do; and we do it in the most ineffective and worthless way possible.... Through our TAX DOLLARS.

Give us that money back to spend on effective, useful PRIVATE programs and you'll see results. Of course those same people will be required to actually DO SOMETHING for that money/support instead of simply showing up with their hand out, but them's the breaks.

And who the heck is Michael J. Tucker and why should I care what he has to say?

Immie

 

[AllieBaba]

I was trying to explain why abstinence and contraception are not interchangeable terms; but given your demonstrated difficulty with the English language, I understand that you don't get it.