Pro-life? or anti-abortion?

[AllieBaba]

whoops, sorry about the weird double posts. My keyboard is a mess..my cursor randomly moves and and sometimes I post without meaning to, and don't realize it posted. I get bounced around and usually I lose all the text. Makes me CRAZY.

 

[AllieBaba]

Since the 'so-called' pro-life movement takes the moral high ground, why are they so extremist and angry?

The anti-choice movement, rather than being full of good hearted folks who just have a thing for fetuses, are actually hard hearted sexist ideologues.

Check out this training manual for the anti-choice movement:
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/emailphotos/pdf/Anti-Choice-Handbook.pdf

You have got to be kidding.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Trying to find clarity. Recently I have been involved in talks with people who claim to be "Pro-Life" in the "Anti-Abortion issue". Yet these people supported the war in Iraq, or support the death penalty.

It seems to me that if you are "Pro-Life" you are against war of any kind for any reason, against the death penalty in any form or for any reason, against leathal self defense, and a vegetarian. Anything other than that you are "Anti-something" i.e. anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, or anti war.

To all the pro-lifers please get your lable right as you tend to confuse others by mislabling yourself as pro life when you are not pro life at all, but anti abortion.

This gets me to thinking, I wonder how many people are actually "Pro life" instead of Anti-abortion?

An aid in your quest for clarity.

Abortion [Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy]

 

[spectrumc01]

So you are trying, lamely, to set people up.

False premise. It fails because Pro-Life is essentially a brand name for a specific movement against the slaughter of babies. It doesn't imply anything except a desire to prevent the murder of babies.

It's not the same as pacifism, and any attempt to make it so is a faulty premise, dishonest, and not worth the time to debate.

Set people up?....no. Get them to call themselves what they actually are....yes.

Why are you affraid to call yourself Anti-abortion when that is what you are? Not Pro-Life.

Pro-Life is not pacifism either, because you can have violence without death. Do you have a dictionary?

Pro-life has a very specific meaning and you are being dishonest when you claim it doesn't:

"Pro-life describes the moral, political and ethical opposition to elective abortion and support for its legal prohibition or restriction."
Pro-life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Helping moms, saving babies, ending abortion."
ProLife.com



Your insistence that to be "Pro-life" one must be "anti-war" is dishonest and ignorant, since the term Pro-life applies specifically to the abortion issue and nothing else. Your false premise is no more intelligent or debatable than someone who claims the owners of Quarter Horses are disonest because their horses aren't really 1/4 horses. The term "Quarter Horse" means a specific breed of horse, and the term "Pro-life" means something very specific as well. And that specific meaning is anti-abortion. Not anti-war. Not anti-death penalty. Not anti-race-car-driving. It means anti-abortion.

So if I wanted someone to xerox me something, and they brought me a copping machine, I should not get upset. If I sent someone to the store for Kleenex and they brought me an off brand of tissue paper I should no be upset? Or perhaps I should have meant exactly what I said. I need tissue paper of the kleenex variety. So perhaps people should say "I'm pro-life with exceptions".

 

[chanel]

Pro choice, pro abortion, or pro death? Get your labels straight.

"Pro-death"......

Last I checked no one makes you get an abortion therefore it is still a choice.

The baby has no choice, does she?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Pro choice, pro abortion, or pro death? Get your labels straight.

"Pro-death"......

Last I checked no one makes you get an abortion therefore it is still a choice.

The baby has no choice, does she?

Having "no choice" suggests an ability to choose, does it not?

 

[Anachronism]

Trying to find clarity. Recently I have been involved in talks with people who claim to be "Pro-Life" in the "Anti-Abortion issue". Yet these people supported the war in Iraq, or support the death penalty.

It seems to me that if you are "Pro-Life" you are against war of any kind for any reason, against the death penalty in any form or for any reason, against leathal self defense, and a vegetarian. Anything other than that you are "Anti-something" i.e. anti-abortion, anti-death penalty, or anti war.

I am vehimently Anti-Abortion. You're right that the Pro-Life label is exceptionally misleading. I am a proponent of the death penalty, war, use of deadly force in self-defense and prefer meat to veggies in pretty much every situation. I am against using tax dollars for medical care for anyone other than active duty and retired military members.

In fact being Anti-Abortion is about the only situation where I stand on the side of protecting human life against death. My stance is based on two things....

1. That life was created by an act of Choice. In fact, the ONLY occasions where I believe abortion to be acceptable are in those few cases where conception occured due to an unwilling and/or forceful act (rape being the main one). Other than that, the two participants made an active and willful Choice to engage in a sexual act which both knew COULD lead to pregnancy. The only 100% proven means of preventing pregnancy is abstinance. Anything other than that is a Choice to tempt FATE with the potential of a pregnancy.

2. That life is truly Innocent. It made no Choice to be brought into this world. It had no say in the matter. It cannot defend itself in any manner. By the time an individual is even a few years old it is no longer "Innocent". It may not be guilty of whatever it has been charged with, but I cannot say that I've EVER encountered anyone at or beyond Preschool age who is actually "Innocent".

 

[spectrumc01]

Pro choice, pro abortion, or pro death? Get your labels straight.

"Pro-death"......

Last I checked no one makes you get an abortion therefore it is still a choice.

The baby has no choice, does she?

The fetus in question, cannot voice an opinion one way or another. The mother should have a choice it's her body. The only horrible part is the father to be doesn't get a say, and in that regard I would give in that it isn't really Pro-choice either. The only way to end abortion is for the fetus to be granted full rights and a social security number at conception, therefore it would be protected under the constitution. Until it has full rights it is still a parasite living off the human host.

 

[AllieBaba]

Set people up?....no. Get them to call themselves what they actually are....yes.

Why are you affraid to call yourself Anti-abortion when that is what you are? Not Pro-Life.

Pro-Life is not pacifism either, because you can have violence without death. Do you have a dictionary?

Pro-life has a very specific meaning and you are being dishonest when you claim it doesn't:

"Pro-life describes the moral, political and ethical opposition to elective abortion and support for its legal prohibition or restriction."
Pro-life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Helping moms, saving babies, ending abortion."
ProLife.com



Your insistence that to be "Pro-life" one must be "anti-war" is dishonest and ignorant, since the term Pro-life applies specifically to the abortion issue and nothing else. Your false premise is no more intelligent or debatable than someone who claims the owners of Quarter Horses are disonest because their horses aren't really 1/4 horses. The term "Quarter Horse" means a specific breed of horse, and the term "Pro-life" means something very specific as well. And that specific meaning is anti-abortion. Not anti-war. Not anti-death penalty. Not anti-race-car-driving. It means anti-abortion.

So if I wanted someone to xerox me something, and they brought me a copping machine, I should not get upset. If I sent someone to the store for Kleenex and they brought me an off brand of tissue paper I should no be upset? Or perhaps I should have meant exactly what I said. I need tissue paper of the kleenex variety. So perhaps people should say "I'm pro-life with exceptions".

No. Because everybody knows what pro-life means. Except you, apparently. It means anti-abortion.

And everyone knows what xerox means when used in that context, as well. This is the language, this is how it works. But, just so you know, using xerox for fax or copy is archaic and shows you to be out of the loop, as it's an old, old term and people working with technology today use the terms fax and copy.

But we still understand the people who fudge the language. So you're probably ok

Besides which, you just proved my point for me. Kleenex and xerox are brand names that have come to mean specific things. Just as the term pro-life means something specific.

 

[Immanuel]

It is funny how labels tend to be mis-applied isn't it?

If the Pro-choice movement had not been so successful in making "anti-choice" or "anti-abortion" sound like such a horrific point of view, the pro-life movement would not have been forced to seek a more appropriate label for themselves. BTW the same can be said for the pro-choice crowd. They had to find a label for themselves that did not carry the negative connotations of pro-abortion.

As for me, I am proud to call myself pro-life whether or not you think the term applies. I am not so opposed to the death penalty that I will fight it tooth and nail. Some killers, i.e. Charles Manson, deserve the death penalty. That does not mean that I want them to die, but even God has sanctioned the death penalty even for things less damning than being a serial murderer.

I would starve if I had to be a vegetarian.

As for the war in Iraq, I supported only the capture of Saddam Hussein; nothing beyond that.

By your definition, no one fits the pure "pro-life" description. But then no one fits the pure pro-choice description either. The so-called pro-choice movement is for one choice and one choice only. Ask them to promote adoption and many of them will balk and claim adoption is too hard on a woman. Ask them to promote the choice of abstinence and an awful lot of them will condemn you to hell.

Pro-life, pro-choice... it is all in the label.

Immie

 

[Wry Catcher]

Abortion is legal. That said, I'm pro contraception. One ought to ask the question why those who oppose abortion oppose educating anyone capable of conception on the ways and means of preventing pregnancy? While doing that maybe the ways and means of preventing STD's?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Pro choice, pro abortion, or pro death? Get your labels straight.

"Pro-death"......

Last I checked no one makes you get an abortion therefore it is still a choice.

The baby has no choice, does she?

'Babies' are not being aborted, fetuses are. Nonetheless, abortion is the taking of a potential human life.

It is morally wrong.

I don't support re-criminalization, however. The so-called 'pro-life' (pro-fetal life, anti-choice)movement wants to criminalize abortion.

That did not stop women from seeking abortions, only made them vulnerable to unsafe procedures endangering their lives.

This anti-choice movement is unconcerned about the well being of the pregnant woman facing a difficult moral decision. They would like to FORCE this woman, and ALL others to bear a child against her will. They want to impose their morality on others forcibly.

That's wrong too.

 

[chanel]

I happen to be pro-choice sky (with reasonable restrictions). I just think the OP was being hypocritical. And yes - there are pro-abortion folks. They are just ashamed to admit it. Wonder why.

 

[spectrumc01]

If pro-life means anti-abortion why not just use anti-abortion instead? Unless, the anti-abortion people don't want to viewed in a negative way. As pro means for, and anti means against. Why try to mislead people in the first place? Or are they just being pretensious?

 

[chanel]

And that's my question to you. If we are going to worry about semantics, then perhaps we should use "pro-abortion and anti-abortion" or "pro-life and -anti-life?" Is that your point?

 

[spectrumc01]

I happen to be pro-choice sky (with reasonable restrictions). I just think the OP was being hypocritical. And yes - there are pro-abortion folks. They are just ashamed to admit it. Wonder why.

Asking people to call themselves by the correct name is hypocritical how?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Words are extremely important in this debate. They frame the entire issue and points of view.

 

[Sky Dancer]

I happen to be pro-choice sky (with reasonable restrictions). I just think the OP was being hypocritical. And yes - there are pro-abortion folks. They are just ashamed to admit it. Wonder why.

I agree. I think the 'pro-life' crowd should just call themselves what they are, anti-abortion, pro-FETAL life only.

There are some who would call you and I who are pro-choice, pro-abortion. That's wrong.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Abortion is legal. That said, I'm pro contraception. One ought to ask the question why those who oppose abortion oppose educating anyone capable of conception on the ways and means of preventing pregnancy? While doing that maybe the ways and means of preventing STD's?

In the anti-abortion movement training manual I provided, those folks are NOT PRO-CONTRACEPTION. They are abstinence only folks.

 

[AllieBaba]

Sorry, my babies are babies from the time they're conceived. I'm under no obligation to adopt the pro-abortion terminology that Sky would like forced upon us all.