Private Morality

[JoeB131]

And there is the glaring difference between us.
I know how to read, study, research.....and learn.

Hey...I even know about things that happened before I was born.
Imagine that?

I don't have to research something I lived through. There's a difference between research and ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE.

Yes, we are a LOT more prude in our culture now than we were 30 years ago.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The biggest issue I have with this concept of Bible-based morality is that there isn't any philosophical basis for the Bible-based morality. It's all commandments from on high with the "...or else" attached at the end. Don't steal...or else. Don't blaspheme...or else. Don't wear poly-cotton blends...or else. There's no discussion of the basis for rights, no discussion of why we shouldn't lie, steal, or kill, no discussion of why it's wrong for me to kill my neighbor but perfectly okay for the Tribe of Israel to kill the shit out of their neighbors. It's morality by proclamation from an outside power and even then only because of threats. Say what you will about Marx and Hegel, but at least their particular philosophic bases go a bitt deeper than "because God said so."

" There's no discussion of the basis for rights, no discussion of why we shouldn't lie, steal, or kill, no discussion of why it's wrong for me to kill my neighbor but perfectly okay for the Tribe of Israel to kill the shit out of their neighbors."

As you show in this, and other posts....you are totally clueless.

Now take notes.


1. The Bible is the wisdom of the West. It is from the precepts of the Bible that the legal systems of the West have been developed- systems, worked out over millennia, for dealing with inequality, with injustice, with greed, reducible t that which Christians call the Golden Rule, and the Jews had propounded as “That which is hateful to you, don not do to your neighbor.” It is these rules and laws which form a framework which allows the individual foreknowledge of that which is permitted and that which is forbidden.
Mamet, “Secret Knowledge”



2. If there is no God, there is no good or evil; they are still left to our reason, our subjective opinion and our cultural experience.
. Can a human being be good without reference to God? As the saying goes, ‘Going to church doesn’t make you a good Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.’ Sure….there could be good pagans….or bad religious folks. While it is true that one can be moral and good and not religious, the idea does not work for all or even most.


3. Why? Because there is no force behind reason.
Take slavery as an example. There is no rational way to convince the slaveholder that he shouldn’t own and sell his fellow man: it makes a great profit, makes his life easier. He can even claim that his slaves live longer and better than many free men.

a. Take as an example, a sadist who gets satisfaction from murdering children. If there is no God who declares that such an act is wrong, then my arguing such is simply my opinion versus that of the murderer. Without God, good and evil are a matter of taste.
Dennis Prager

 

[JoeB131]

1. The Bible is the wisdom of the West. It is from the precepts of the Bible that the legal systems of the West have been developed- systems, worked out over millennia, for dealing with inequality, with injustice, with greed, reducible t that which Christians call the Golden Rule, and the Jews had propounded as “That which is hateful to you, don not do to your neighbor.” It is these rules and laws which form a framework which allows the individual foreknowledge of that which is permitted and that which is forbidden.
Mamet, “Secret Knowledge”

Yeah, the bible had some great ideas on how to investigate murders.

 

[JoeB131]

3. Why? Because there is no force behind reason.
Take slavery as an example. There is no rational way to convince the slaveholder that he shouldn’t own and sell his fellow man: it makes a great profit, makes his life easier. He can even claim that his slaves live longer and better than many free men.

a. Take as an example, a sadist who gets satisfaction from murdering children. If there is no God who declares that such an act is wrong, then my arguing such is simply my opinion versus that of the murderer. Without God, good and evil are a matter of taste.

Oh, Sweet Evil Jesus, you are using Prager as a source? Seriously.

Okay, here's the thing. A group of Atheists are just as likely to convict a child murderer as a group of Christians. You don't need a magic pixie in the sky to say that is wrong.

Unlike the Catholic Church, which hid the abuse of children by priests for decades.

Meanwhile, when the rest of the world was undergoing something called "the Enlightenment', the people who insisted on continuing to own slaves whipped out their bibles and said, "See, God says Slavery is perfectly fine!"

 

[PoliticalChic]

Answer the two questions.
Do it now!

I did, is your reading comprehension that poor?

I posted on this very board that he was both correct and brave when he came out and admitted the problems in the black community.
And he was attacked by the cur Dyson when he did so.
And watch your language.

But that has no relationship to this situation.

What...he gets a pass for rape because he correctly commented on the social scene earlier???

No, but I think that when someone says misogynistic things about single mothers and THEN gets caught drugging and raping women who trusted him, I'm not even a little bit surprised. He's obviously got issues with the poonany.

It's unfortunate conservatives were too eager to embrace yet another Uncle Tom saying "We shore is shiftless, boss" to take a closer look at this guy.

"Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong."
Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (October 16, 1854),

You have heard of Abraham Lincoln, haven't you?

Yes, he also said something about labor should be given greater consideration than capital.

But back to Cosby. He was WRONG about single mothers and he was wrong about drugging women and banging them. He was a misogynistic, self-loathing black guy, and your side couldn't wait to embrace him without questioning some of the shit he said because it validated your worldview that 'those people' are only poor because they aren't trying hard enough.

1. "I did, is your reading comprehension that poor? "
Stop lying: answer the questions.


2. "...something about labor should be given greater consideration than capital."
You may truly be the dumbest poster on the board....and that is going some!

"So, as productivity and skills increase, workers earn more. Productivity of workers in competitive markets is what determines the earnings of most workers; and it is not an accident that labor earns about 70% of the total output of the American economy, and capital earns about 30%."
"The Bankruptcy Bomb," Ferrara, chapter nine.


3. "But back to Cosby. He was WRONG about single mothers and he was wrong about drugging women and banging them. He was a misogynistic, self-loathing black guy, and your side couldn't wait to embrace him without questioning some of the shit he said because it validated your worldview that 'those people' are only poor because they aren't trying hard enough."

Keep running from the subject, you moron.
Answer the questions.

 

[PoliticalChic]

And there is the glaring difference between us.
I know how to read, study, research.....and learn.

Hey...I even know about things that happened before I was born.
Imagine that?

I don't have to research something I lived through. There's a difference between research and ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE.

Yes, we are a LOT more prude in our culture now than we were 30 years ago.

"I don't have to research something I lived through. There's a difference between research and ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE."

Nothing worse than an "eye witness."

 

[JakeStarkey]

PC has made a great argument for the privatization of HER morality and our continuation with a secular government.

 

[JoeB131]

"So, as productivity and skills increase, workers earn more. Productivity of workers in competitive markets is what determines the earnings of most workers; and it is not an accident that labor earns about 70% of the total output of the American economy, and capital earns about 30%."
"The Bankruptcy Bomb," Ferrara, chapter nine.

That's fucking retarded. In fact, wages have remained flat for the last 30 years, while productivity has shot through the roof.

Sigh. It's really kind of hard to argue with someone who lives in her own reality.

 

[PoliticalChic]

"So, as productivity and skills increase, workers earn more. Productivity of workers in competitive markets is what determines the earnings of most workers; and it is not an accident that labor earns about 70% of the total output of the American economy, and capital earns about 30%."
"The Bankruptcy Bomb," Ferrara, chapter nine.

That's fucking retarded. In fact, wages have remained flat for the last 30 years, while productivity has shot through the roof.

Sigh. It's really kind of hard to argue with someone who lives in her own reality.

What a dope.

You really have no problem posting about subjects about which you know nothing....zero.

And that covers most subjects.


"A favorite "progressive" trope is that America's middle class has stagnated economically since the 1970s.....
This trope is spectacularly wrong.....

Second, this wage figure ignores the rise over the past few decades in the portion of worker pay taken as (nontaxable) fringe benefits. This is no small matter—health benefits, pensions, paid leave and the rest now amount to an average of almost 31% of total compensation for all civilian workers according to the BLS.

Third and most important, the average hourly wage is held down by the great increase of women and immigrants into the workforce over the past three decades. Precisely because the U.S. economy was flexible and strong, it created millions of jobs for the influx of many often lesser-skilled workers who sought employment during these years."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...8249723138161566.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

 

[JoeB131]

"I don't have to research something I lived through. There's a difference between research and ACTUAL LIFE EXPERIENCE."

Nothing worse than an "eye witness."

Well, like I said, I was there and you weren't.

I miss the 1980s. We could all party and Reagan hadn't gotten around to destroying the middle class yet.

 

[JoeB131]

Second, this wage figure ignores the rise over the past few decades in the portion of worker pay taken as (nontaxable) fringe benefits. This is no small matter—health benefits, pensions, paid leave and the rest now amount to an average of almost 31% of total compensation for all civilian workers according to the BLS.

That's misleading. Yes, it is true that because we are the ONLY country that doesn't have universal health care, the cost of employing someone has increased. But the worker is not seeing an increase in his take home pay. Health insurance costs ten times as much and protects you from less. That's not a bargain.

I remember back in the 1980's, we called HMO's "HOrrible Medical Options". Because they were pretty awful. today, most of us wish was had an HMO. I remember our HR Lady bragging about how she was glad she was on her husband's HMO instead of our crappy program.

Third and most important, the average hourly wage is held down by the great increase of women and immigrants into the workforce over the past three decades. Precisely because the U.S. economy was flexible and strong, it created millions of jobs for the influx of many often lesser-skilled workers who sought employment during these years."

Again, horseshit. Most people aren't seeing any increase in their wages when adjusted for inflation. Women still make .71 compared to what a man makes and that was the case back in the 1970's.

 

[JoeB131]

PC has made a great argument for the privatization of HER morality and our continuation with a secular government.

PC has made a great argument as to why she should turn off the hate radio, get out of the house, and interact with real people.

 

[PoliticalChic]

PC has made a great argument for the privatization of HER morality and our continuation with a secular government.

PC has made a great argument as to why she should turn off the hate radio, get out of the house, and interact with real people.

Answer the questions, coward.

"Sixteen women have publicly stated that Cosby, now 77, sexually assaulted them, with 12 saying he drugged them first and another saying he tried to drug her."

1. Would you give him a standing ovation?


2. In your estimation, is rape simply ignored as part of his 'private life'?

Answer the two questions.
Do it now!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Or else!

 

[Jroc]

The biggest issue I have with this concept of Bible-based morality is that there isn't any philosophical basis for the Bible-based morality. It's all commandments from on high with the "...or else" attached at the end. Don't steal...or else. Don't blaspheme...or else. Don't wear poly-cotton blends...or else. There's no discussion of the basis for rights, no discussion of why we shouldn't lie, steal, or kill, no discussion of why it's wrong for me to kill my neighbor but perfectly okay for the Tribe of Israel to kill the shit out of their neighbors. It's morality by proclamation from an outside power and even then only because of threats. Say what you will about Marx and Hegel, but at least their particular philosophic bases go a bitt deeper than "because God said so."

Everything has it's time for the simple minded folks like Joey and the other pea brian liberal who posted on this thread we have advanced beyond some of the instructions laid out in the Torah (old testament)

I'm sorry, I don't think there was ever a time or place where it was okay to stone a woman because her hymen wasn't intact on her wedding night, or to stone your neighbors because they were gathering sticks for a fire on a Sabbath day.

The fact is, the laws of the Torah were written by savages for savages. Most Christians and Jews like to pretend that shit isn't in their bible, but it is.

Like i said before this miserable idiot is a walking, talking contradiction. He hates the rich unless they work for the government, then they are somehow virtuous in his warped mind. He defends and sides with muslum nutjobs while claiming Christians and Jews condone stoning. Joey show me were today's Christians and Jews are stoning people. it seems you failed to comprehend my previous posts. Joey the liberal is a totalitarian, leftist, nutjob which is why he defends radical muslims who also are totalitarians

 

[Jroc]

PC has made a great argument for the privatization of HER morality and our continuation with a secular government.

PC has made a great argument as to why she should turn off the hate radio, get out of the house, and interact with real people.

Answer the questions, coward.

"Sixteen women have publicly stated that Cosby, now 77, sexually assaulted them, with 12 saying he drugged them first and another saying he tried to drug her."

1. Would you give him a standing ovation?


2. In your estimation, is rape simply ignored as part of his 'private life'?

Answer the two questions.
Do it now!

Bill Cosby and Bill Clinton should be in the same Jail cell...

 

[JakeStarkey]

No one here is supporting Cosby, I believe.

If they are, then they are condemned for being stupid.

 

[Justin Davis]

In point of fact there is no good or evil. Just actions and consequences. What we describe as good and evil is usually highly subjective. As with soldiers killing wars vs terrorists killing in wars. If a terrorist who kills soldiers via suicide bomb is "evil" then why isn't a soldier who drops bombs from a plane also evil? Rather neither act is evil, nor good, simply an action followed by a consequence.

Sounds like an absolute statement to me. So there are no moral absolutes except the absolute that there are no moral absolutes. So I guess the claim that there are no moral absolutes is false. Yep. That must be right. Looks like you just contradicted yourself in a way that negates your assertion. That would mean the opposite has to be true. Sounds like you're assuming to be God too, claiming to know something absolutely above your pay grade. I wonder how the concepts of good and evil universally exist in human thought. I wonder why all persons know that it's wrong to murder, oppress or steal. Oh, wait! I see, you're pretending that killing a human being is the same thing as murdering a human being. But of course we know that's not true. I wonder how we know that's not true. I think it's because you full of that stuff.

 

[Justin Davis]

In point of fact there is no good or evil. Just actions and consequences. What we describe as good and evil is usually highly subjective. As with soldiers killing wars vs terrorists killing in wars. If a terrorist who kills soldiers via suicide bomb is "evil" then why isn't a soldier who drops bombs from a plane also evil? Rather neither act is evil, nor good, simply an action followed by a consequence.

Following your logic, how can any consequence be valid/justified?

Don't have to justify things, that's only for others' benefit and our relationships with them. I don't seek others' approval for what I do, nor attempt to justify anything to others.

I'm reminded of the "you might be a redneck" jokes.

You might be an obtuse sociopath if you think like D4E.

 

[Justin Davis]

Without defined mortality by a higher power G-d. there are no restrictions man cant simply make them up as we go along because man can always change them. Which is were the Nazi's come in radical Islamist ect....In your case, if left up to you, we might have a porn invested, no holds barred, sodomizing banaza. I'm sure you would have loved Sodom and Gomorraha before it's destruction

Uh, dude, the Nazis and the Islamists totally based their "morality" on belief in a sky fairy.

Fact is, the bible totally endorses all sorts of evil actions, including genocide. Run into any Amelikites lately? Nope. The Israelites genocided the shit out those fuckers. And God was upset with Saul for incomplete genocide. He totally killed the Amalekite women and children, but he let some of the livestock live!

As for Sodom and Gommorah, so let me get this straight. They all deserved to die for the butt sex, but God had to totally swoop down and send angels to save Lot, a "Righteous" man who offered his daughters up for Gang Rape before having drunken sex with them himself.

Another atheist denying the only absolute ground for a universal morality as he spouts moral absolutes. I wonder why no one really escapes the necessity of moral absolutes. Could it be that some are just deluding themselves? Looks that way. Some people just aren't good people, but evil. Looks that way.