Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by Alter2Ego, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. Alter2Ego
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    Alter2Ego Member

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    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    AGRUMENT #1 FOR AN INTELLIGENT CREATOR:

    For the average person, precision indicates that an intelligent person guided the outcome. According to Webster's New World College Dictionary, the word "precision" is defined as follows:


    "the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy"


    The reverse of precision is an accident aka a spontaneous event that happen by chance with no one guiding the outcome. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines an accident as:

    "a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results"


    Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and the Big Bang theory mere fiction, for precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Take, for example, the first discovered 60 elements on the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth. Some of these 60 elements are gases and are therefore invisible to the human eye. The atoms--from which the Earth's elements are made--are specifically related to one another. In turn, the elements--e.g. arsenic, bismuth, chromium, gold, krypton--reflect a distinct, natural numeral order based upon the structure of their atoms. This is a proven LAW.

    The precision in the order of the elements made it possible for scientists such as Mendeleyev, Ramsey, Moseley, and Bohr to theorize the existence of unknown elements and their characteristics. These elements were later discovered, just as predicted. Because of the distinct numerical order of the elements, the word LAW is applied to the Periodic Table of the Elements. (Sources: (1) The McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science & Technology, (2) "Periodic Law," from Encyclopædia Britannica, Vol. VII, p. 878, copyright 1978, (3) The Hutchinson Dictionary of Scientific Biography


    SIDE NOTE: Laws found in nature, as defined by Webster's New World Dictionary, are:


    "a sequence of events that have been observed to occur with UNVARYING UNIFORMITY under the same conditions."


    QUESTIONS FOR DISCUSSION:
    1.
    Were it not for the precise relationship among the first 60 discovered elements on the Periodic Table, would scientists have been able to accurately predict the existence of forms of matter that at the time were unknown?

    2. Could the precise law within the first 60 discovered elements (on the Periodic Table) have resulted by chance aka spontaneously aka by accident? Or is this evidence for the existence an intelligent Designer/God who guided the outcome?

    3. Evolution relies upon things happening by chance aka at random. If evolution were a fact, how does it account for the Periodic Table of the Elements of planet earth in which the first 60 discovered elements are so precise, and so interrelated with one another, that it has been assigned the word "LAW"?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  2. OohPooPahDoo
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    The period table is well explained by chemistry and quantum physics.

    And its hardly surprising we live on a planet suitable for life.
     
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  3. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    I recommend the Harper's article, by a physicist and a professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, that is highly supportive of your position:

    In part:
    "On one thing most physicists agree: If the amount of dark energy in our universe were only a little bit different than what it actually is, then life could never have emerged. A little more and the universe would accelerate so rapidly that the matter in the young cosmos could never pull itself together to form stars and thence form the complex atoms made in stars. And, going into negative values of dark energy, a little less and the universe would decelerate so rapidly that it would recollapse before there was time to form even the simplest atoms. Here we have a clear example of fine-tuning: out of all the possible amounts of dark energy that our universe might have, the actual amount lies in the tiny sliver of the range that allows life. There is little argument on this point. It does not depend on assumptions about whether we need liquid water for life or oxygen or particular biochemistries. As before, one is compelled to ask the question: Why does such fine-tuning occur? "


    The accidental universe: Science's crisis of faith
    By Alan P. Lightman
    The accidental universe: Science's crisis of faith?By Alan P. Lightman (Harper's Magazine)
     
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  4. code1211
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    As a child I saw the articulated skeletons of dinosaurs and was absolutely fascinated. As i matured, it occurred to me that there is a remarkable similarity in all vertebrate skeletons.

    If i were an intelligent creator, I'd have changed it up a little. You know, like trucks and cars. maybe the really big animals have 4 hind legs and some of the birds have 4 legs and two wings.

    The incredible consistency is, to me, proof that the various species evolved. Also consistency is the mark of mindlessness not the mark of creativity. Why do species reproduce the next generation very similarly to the previous? Why is there not a regularity of mutation consistent with a great and creative mind?

    If there is a precise regularity that can be traced to a precise mechanism, that argues against a creative intelligence working on things with interest.

    It's the difference between the Mona Lisa and the Model T.
     
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  5. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    "If i were an intelligent creator, I'd have changed it up a little."

    Here's a little change that might have escaped your perusal.....

    Sir John Maddox, editor emeritus of the foremost journal of science, Nature, wrote in a classic Time magazine essay, “How the brain manages to think is a conundrum with a millennial time scale. All animals have brains so as to be able to move about. Signals from the senses- eyes, ears, nostrils, or skin, as the case may be- send messages to the spinal cord, which moves the limbs appropriately. But thinking involves the consideration of alternative responses, many of which have not been experienced but have been merely imagined. The faculty of being conscious of what is going on in the head is an extra puzzle.” (“Thinking,” March 29, 1999, p. 206)
     
  6. OohPooPahDoo
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    A: Multiverse
     
  7. Alter2Ego
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    ALTER2EGO -to- CODE1211:

    If the animals evolved, as you claim, where's the evidence of this? The pro-evolution scientists have all admitted that the fossils (bones of long dead animals) is full of nothing but gaps. Gaps indicate there are no bones to connect one type of animal family/species with an entirely different type.
     
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  8. code1211
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    As you know, I have great respect for you, but I'm having trouble "connecting the dots" from what I said to what you said.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 14, 2012
  9. PoliticalChic
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    Thank's for falling into a little trap I set.....

    I suspect that you don't understand what the "multiverse concept" implies: all of the 'facts' of science are no longer 'facts.'


    The concept was made up by dolts who were afraid of what the 'fine-tuned universe' implies.

    And accepted by other dolts.

    Shoe fit?


    From chapter seven of Berlinski's "The Devil's Delusion,"...

    "Dawkins, among others, has embraced the ‘multiverse,’ [the Landscape] idea, that there could be an infinite number of universes, each with some permutation of the natural laws of physics, vastly different from ours. Why, then, scruple at the Deity? After all, the theologian need only apply to a single God and a single universe. Dawkins must appeal to infinitely many universes crammed with laws of nature wriggling indiscreetly and fundamental physical parameters changing as one travels the cosmos. And- the entire gargantuan structure scientifically unobservable and devoid of any connection to expericnce.

    Now, get this: Dawkins actually writes, “The key difference between the radically extravagant God hypothesis and the apparently extravagant multiverse hypothesis, is one of statistical improbability.”


    Didn't understand what a mistake it was to write "A: Multiverse" did ya'?


    What say you?
     
  10. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    I appreciate that code....hope I wasn't too harsh.

    My point is the thinking that humans are capable of in found nowhere else in the biosphere.

    1. "Man is virtually defined by creativity—in manufacturing, art, literature, music, humor, and virtually every other field of activity.

    2. Only man has the ability to create pictures in the mind and then manipulate materials from the earth to bring into reality what was imagined. Imagination ignites creativity and gives the human mind its uniqueness. It is imagination that opens the door for us to meditate on our origins and our destiny.

    3. …humans are the only creatures on Earth that are truly creative. Don’t be fooled by discussions of spiders’ webs or song thrush nests. Man is the only being that can imagine and then bring into existence what he imagines, whether architecture, art, literature, mechanical inventions, music or sculpture. Creativity is a highly advanced mental process that involves dreaming or imagination, development and innovation. Let’s be honest: No other creature—ape, chimp, bird, dog or dolphin—can create.

    The Mystery of Human Creativity Explained - theTrumpet.com by the Philadelphia Church of God


    I don't know if you've seen the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel...but when you do, look closely at the shape of the 'cloud' on which God rests as he reached out to Adam....
    ...it is the shape of a cerebrum
    It is the give of thought that makes us different.
     

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