Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right.

[Taz]

And doesn't the church believe that the world was created by god in 4004BC?

the short answer would be no.....
this Pope has said nothing new......actually, he's only said something I've said here enough times......and its what I grew up learning in the 50s......

So did humans evolve from the "soup" or did god plop humans down fully formed? The pope seems to be saying the "soup".

why do you mistake what he said with saying humans evolved from soup.......science cannot say that humans evolved from soup....science cannot even say that multicelled organisms evolved from single celled organisms......

Pope believes in evolution, not your made up partial evolution.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Taz does not understand what the Pope is saying.

Taz should go back and read for clarity.

 

[Katzndogz]

If the Pope said that evolution and the big bang were total frauds, liberals would be asking for his scientific credentials.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oh, OK the Pope never read Genesis, he only read the NT

 

[Hollie]

And doesn't the church believe that the world was created by god in 4004BC?

the short answer would be no.....
this Pope has said nothing new......actually, he's only said something I've said here enough times......and its what I grew up learning in the 50s......

So did humans evolve from the "soup" or did god plop humans down fully formed? The pope seems to be saying the "soup".

why do you mistake what he said with saying humans evolved from soup.......science cannot say that humans evolved from soup....science cannot even say that multicelled organisms evolved from single celled organisms......

Yours is the typically ignorant lack of understanding regarding very basic precepts of biological evolution and a total lack of a science vocabulary typical of religious zealots.

 

[Hollie]

Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn t a magician with a magic wand - Europe - World - The Independent

So for all the noobs here who have been arguing the opposite. AAAWWWWWWW! TOO BAD!

Who cares what he says? He is not a Christian, he's a satanist Jessuit who has a bench warrant for his arrest for the paedophile rape of two girls in Argentina - now women who are demanding for his arrest! The man is a criminal and half of Europe must know it by now! You must be kidding! As if this man had a shred of credibility left! Not on your life! He gives new meaning to the term "FALSE PROPHET"!


The Roman Catholic Church is Declared a Transnational Criminal Organization Scanned Retina Resource

By these remarks and policies, Bergoglio has not only ordered his followers to break the law but to commit treason in their own countries by violating child protection laws and undermining police agencies. The Pope, in short, is not simply facilitating international child abuse and human trafficking, but is heading a criminal conspiracy against the sovereignty of other states and the law of nations.

Under international law, such actions amount to an act of war; and those responsible are justifiably declared to be an enemy of peace-loving humanity.
Let it be known to the world, therefore, that Jorge Bergoglio, the head of the Church of Rome, is indeed such an enemy of humanity. Accordingly, on Thursday, August 1, 2013, a Bench Warrant Order was issued by the International Common Law Court of Justice in Brussels for the immediate arrest and trial of Jorge Bergoglio for these crimes.
___________________
They still to this date have yet to be able to arrest him as he hides behind the Vatican for cover!

You mean God finally admitted it!?? To the Pope!!??

What took him so long?

God said, "Let there be light, and there was light".

The Big Bang!!!

The process set in motion, He sat back and watched.

That is evolution.

We can quibble over time frame, that is about all.

He sat back and watched? So he didn't make Eve from a used rib? The garden of Eden is bullshit? Human came up the evolutionary scale by chance, no god involved?

The Garden of Eden may well be bullshit, but it does not follow from there that God was not involved. I am always amazed at how many "non-believers" are biblical literalists.

That's odd. If someone is going to critique and critically assess the bibles, why would you not perform those tasks with what is written in the bibles.

Why accept some parts of the bibles as true, literal renderings and others as not. Who decides what is literal and what is not?

I agree, it is very odd. You hold that there was no Garden of Eden and insist that is the only possible option in one breath. Extremely odd.

The person doing the reading decides what is literal or not. You can decide what you please. But to hold that only a particular and very narrow belief is valid while simultaneously arguing that belief is wrong is absurd. Or, perhaps, just lazy.

I hold that there is no evidence of your alleged garden of Eden. I also hold that a literal 6,000 year old earth, an alleged global flood that cannot be demonstrated, talking snakes and eternal damnation for fruit theft are of myth and legend.

How is any of the above any different from, Hercules and the Giants

"Zeus wasn't always the king of the Greek gods. Ouranos was the king of the first generation of gods, but he was overthrown by Kronos, who was his son. Kronos was father to Zeus and the Olympians, and he, too, was overthrown by his son. Even after Zeus took charge, succeeding generations and different races of gods still competed for control of Olympus.

While Zeus was establishing himself, the Earth gave birth to a new, monstrous set of gods, the Giants, which were fathered by the Sky. The Giants were as tall as mountains and so strong as to be unbeatable. The Olympian gods were anthropomorphic, which means that they looked a lot like human men and women. But the Giants were frightening to look at. According to Apollodorus, their shaggy hair drooped from their heads and chins, and they had dragon scales on their feet."

It certainly doesn't follow that your gods are to be believed when the Greek gods are obviously the true gods.


All beliefs are not equally valid. People may be equally free to embrace any belief they wish to, but doing so in no way lends any validity to some beliefs over other beliefs. There are valid beliefs which conform to the strictures of knowledge (empirical evidence, consistency, adherence to logic, repeatable results, falsifiable) and those that are assertions without benefit of any standards (i.e., theistic claims of all stripes, each devoid of any real evidence.)

Of course. Why hold anyone to a standard of demonstration? Could it be not to do so is just cowardly?

 

[Hollie]

Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn t a magician with a magic wand - Europe - World - The Independent

So for all the noobs here who have been arguing the opposite. AAAWWWWWWW! TOO BAD!

Who cares what he says? He is not a Christian, he's a satanist Jessuit who has a bench warrant for his arrest for the paedophile rape of two girls in Argentina - now women who are demanding for his arrest! The man is a criminal and half of Europe must know it by now! You must be kidding! As if this man had a shred of credibility left! Not on your life! He gives new meaning to the term "FALSE PROPHET"!


The Roman Catholic Church is Declared a Transnational Criminal Organization Scanned Retina Resource

By these remarks and policies, Bergoglio has not only ordered his followers to break the law but to commit treason in their own countries by violating child protection laws and undermining police agencies. The Pope, in short, is not simply facilitating international child abuse and human trafficking, but is heading a criminal conspiracy against the sovereignty of other states and the law of nations.

Under international law, such actions amount to an act of war; and those responsible are justifiably declared to be an enemy of peace-loving humanity.
Let it be known to the world, therefore, that Jorge Bergoglio, the head of the Church of Rome, is indeed such an enemy of humanity. Accordingly, on Thursday, August 1, 2013, a Bench Warrant Order was issued by the International Common Law Court of Justice in Brussels for the immediate arrest and trial of Jorge Bergoglio for these crimes.
___________________
They still to this date have yet to be able to arrest him as he hides behind the Vatican for cover!

Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn t a magician with a magic wand - Europe - World - The Independent

So for all the noobs here who have been arguing the opposite. AAAWWWWWWW! TOO BAD!

You mean God finally admitted it!?? To the Pope!!??

What took him so long?

God said, "Let there be light, and there was light".

The Big Bang!!!

The process set in motion, He sat back and watched.

That is evolution.

We can quibble over time frame, that is about all.

He sat back and watched? So he didn't make Eve from a used rib? The garden of Eden is bullshit? Human came up the evolutionary scale by chance, no god involved?

The Garden of Eden may well be bullshit, but it does not follow from there that God was not involved. I am always amazed at how many "non-believers" are biblical literalists.

shouldn't amaze you.....its the only argument they have, that's why they keep playing it......

Aww. You're just throwing a lot of sour grapes because you can't reconcile your YEC'ist views against the global conspiracy of science.

 

[PostmodernProph]

And doesn't the church believe that the world was created by god in 4004BC?

the short answer would be no.....
this Pope has said nothing new......actually, he's only said something I've said here enough times......and its what I grew up learning in the 50s......

So did humans evolve from the "soup" or did god plop humans down fully formed? The pope seems to be saying the "soup".

why do you mistake what he said with saying humans evolved from soup.......science cannot say that humans evolved from soup....science cannot even say that multicelled organisms evolved from single celled organisms......

Pope believes in evolution, not your made up partial evolution.

???....actually, I think the Pope believes in evolution, not YOUR made up evolution......

 

[PostmodernProph]

Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn t a magician with a magic wand - Europe - World - The Independent

So for all the noobs here who have been arguing the opposite. AAAWWWWWWW! TOO BAD!

Who cares what he says? He is not a Christian, he's a satanist Jessuit who has a bench warrant for his arrest for the paedophile rape of two girls in Argentina - now women who are demanding for his arrest! The man is a criminal and half of Europe must know it by now! You must be kidding! As if this man had a shred of credibility left! Not on your life! He gives new meaning to the term "FALSE PROPHET"!


The Roman Catholic Church is Declared a Transnational Criminal Organization Scanned Retina Resource

By these remarks and policies, Bergoglio has not only ordered his followers to break the law but to commit treason in their own countries by violating child protection laws and undermining police agencies. The Pope, in short, is not simply facilitating international child abuse and human trafficking, but is heading a criminal conspiracy against the sovereignty of other states and the law of nations.

Under international law, such actions amount to an act of war; and those responsible are justifiably declared to be an enemy of peace-loving humanity.
Let it be known to the world, therefore, that Jorge Bergoglio, the head of the Church of Rome, is indeed such an enemy of humanity. Accordingly, on Thursday, August 1, 2013, a Bench Warrant Order was issued by the International Common Law Court of Justice in Brussels for the immediate arrest and trial of Jorge Bergoglio for these crimes.
___________________
They still to this date have yet to be able to arrest him as he hides behind the Vatican for cover!

You mean God finally admitted it!?? To the Pope!!??

What took him so long?

God said, "Let there be light, and there was light".

The Big Bang!!!

The process set in motion, He sat back and watched.

That is evolution.

We can quibble over time frame, that is about all.

He sat back and watched? So he didn't make Eve from a used rib? The garden of Eden is bullshit? Human came up the evolutionary scale by chance, no god involved?

The Garden of Eden may well be bullshit, but it does not follow from there that God was not involved. I am always amazed at how many "non-believers" are biblical literalists.

shouldn't amaze you.....its the only argument they have, that's why they keep playing it......

Aww. You're just throwing a lot of sour grapes because you can't reconcile your YEC'ist views against the global conspiracy of science.

Hollie: YEC, YEC, YEC, yap, yap, yap......

 

[JakeStarkey]

If the Pope said that evolution and the big bang were total frauds, liberals would be asking for his scientific credentials.

When it comes to science and creation, fundamentalists and evangelicals have not a clue.

 

[JakeStarkey]

atheist comments are weighted for what they are wroth (and worth)

 

[Hollie]

Who cares what he says? He is not a Christian, he's a satanist Jessuit who has a bench warrant for his arrest for the paedophile rape of two girls in Argentina - now women who are demanding for his arrest! The man is a criminal and half of Europe must know it by now! You must be kidding! As if this man had a shred of credibility left! Not on your life! He gives new meaning to the term "FALSE PROPHET"!


The Roman Catholic Church is Declared a Transnational Criminal Organization Scanned Retina Resource

By these remarks and policies, Bergoglio has not only ordered his followers to break the law but to commit treason in their own countries by violating child protection laws and undermining police agencies. The Pope, in short, is not simply facilitating international child abuse and human trafficking, but is heading a criminal conspiracy against the sovereignty of other states and the law of nations.

Under international law, such actions amount to an act of war; and those responsible are justifiably declared to be an enemy of peace-loving humanity.
Let it be known to the world, therefore, that Jorge Bergoglio, the head of the Church of Rome, is indeed such an enemy of humanity. Accordingly, on Thursday, August 1, 2013, a Bench Warrant Order was issued by the International Common Law Court of Justice in Brussels for the immediate arrest and trial of Jorge Bergoglio for these crimes.
___________________
They still to this date have yet to be able to arrest him as he hides behind the Vatican for cover!

God said, "Let there be light, and there was light".

The Big Bang!!!

The process set in motion, He sat back and watched.

That is evolution.

We can quibble over time frame, that is about all.

He sat back and watched? So he didn't make Eve from a used rib? The garden of Eden is bullshit? Human came up the evolutionary scale by chance, no god involved?

The Garden of Eden may well be bullshit, but it does not follow from there that God was not involved. I am always amazed at how many "non-believers" are biblical literalists.

shouldn't amaze you.....its the only argument they have, that's why they keep playing it......

Aww. You're just throwing a lot of sour grapes because you can't reconcile your YEC'ist views against the global conspiracy of science.

Hollie: YEC, YEC, YEC, yap, yap, yap......

We can always count on your posts being an assembly of jibberish, pointless babble and a total lack of punctuation.

 

[PostmodernProph]

He sat back and watched? So he didn't make Eve from a used rib? The garden of Eden is bullshit? Human came up the evolutionary scale by chance, no god involved?

The Garden of Eden may well be bullshit, but it does not follow from there that God was not involved. I am always amazed at how many "non-believers" are biblical literalists.

shouldn't amaze you.....its the only argument they have, that's why they keep playing it......

Aww. You're just throwing a lot of sour grapes because you can't reconcile your YEC'ist views against the global conspiracy of science.

Hollie: YEC, YEC, YEC, yap, yap, yap......

We can always count on your posts being an assembly of jibberish, pointless babble and a total lack of punctuation.

actually, both a comma and an ellipsis ARE punctuation marks.....

 

[Hollie]

The Garden of Eden may well be bullshit, but it does not follow from there that God was not involved. I am always amazed at how many "non-believers" are biblical literalists.

shouldn't amaze you.....its the only argument they have, that's why they keep playing it......

Aww. You're just throwing a lot of sour grapes because you can't reconcile your YEC'ist views against the global conspiracy of science.

Hollie: YEC, YEC, YEC, yap, yap, yap......

We can always count on your posts being an assembly of jibberish, pointless babble and a total lack of punctuation.

actually, both a comma and an ellipsis ARE punctuation marks.....

Don't any of the bibles instruct you on their use?

 

[Treeshepherd]

How is any of the above any different from, Hercules and the Giants

"Zeus wasn't always the king of the Greek gods. Ouranos was the king of the first generation of gods, but he was overthrown by Kronos, who was his son. Kronos was father to Zeus and the Olympians, and he, too, was overthrown by his son. Even after Zeus took charge, succeeding generations and different races of gods still competed for control of Olympus.

While Zeus was establishing himself, the Earth gave birth to a new, monstrous set of gods, the Giants, which were fathered by the Sky. The Giants were as tall as mountains and so strong as to be unbeatable. The Olympian gods were anthropomorphic, which means that they looked a lot like human men and women. But the Giants were frightening to look at. According to Apollodorus, their shaggy hair drooped from their heads and chins, and they had dragon scales on their feet."

It certainly doesn't follow that your gods are to be believed when the Greek gods are obviously the true gods.


All beliefs are not equally valid. People may be equally free to embrace any belief they wish to, but doing so in no way lends any validity to some beliefs over other beliefs. There are valid beliefs which conform to the strictures of knowledge (empirical evidence, consistency, adherence to logic, repeatable results, falsifiable) and those that are assertions without benefit of any standards (i.e., theistic claims of all stripes, each devoid of any real evidence.)

Of course. Why hold anyone to a standard of demonstration? Could it be not to do so is just cowardly?

By and large, the pagans of the ancient world fully realized that there wasn't literally an omnipotent bearded guy named Zeus walking around on Mt Olympus chucking lightening bolts around. The gods were abstractions representing the various natural and metaphysical forces of the universe. The rites and rituals (practices) were the important part because they helped to attune the practitioner with those forces.

If you go to a Catholic picnic, you'll find a wide variety of opinions around the picnic table on subjects ranging from politics to the sciences to what have you ( I would say in California that less than 5% take the Creation stories in Genesis to be literal). Half are Democrats and half are Republicans. Again, what is important is the practice. Participate in mass, shake hands with your neighbor, say "peace be with you", sing the hymns, put some money in the basket, confess your sins, have a charitable vocation, eat some burgers at the picnic, etc..

The first universities were Catholic, and the first telescopes, and you can go down the list of every single one of the sciences and find Catholics were there from the start. The Origin of the Species was never banned by the Vatican, though there were plenty of local parish priests who railed against it. But, look, Darwin's work was based on the work of Mendel, a priest, and the father of genetics. The dude (Lemaitre) who first proposed the Big Bang theory was a priest.

Some of the posters here seem unable to wrap their minds around how it could be that a deeply religious person can also be an intellectual. It's as if they think that the theory of evolution is absent from the University of Notre Dame, Georgetown, Marquette, USF, Xavier, Dayton, Boston College, etc..

If Godwin's Law refers to the truth that all internet discussions devolve into someone pulling the Hitler card,

Treeshepherd's Law now refers to the truth that all online discussions about religion result in an atheist pulling the Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy card, as if it were impossible to have a deeper understanding of the nature of the gods.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Tooth Fairy or Sky Pixie comments are supposed to a force field that protects atheists from having to think.

 

[Moonglow]

 

[PratchettFan]

Who cares what he says? He is not a Christian, he's a satanist Jessuit who has a bench warrant for his arrest for the paedophile rape of two girls in Argentina - now women who are demanding for his arrest! The man is a criminal and half of Europe must know it by now! You must be kidding! As if this man had a shred of credibility left! Not on your life! He gives new meaning to the term "FALSE PROPHET"!


The Roman Catholic Church is Declared a Transnational Criminal Organization Scanned Retina Resource

By these remarks and policies, Bergoglio has not only ordered his followers to break the law but to commit treason in their own countries by violating child protection laws and undermining police agencies. The Pope, in short, is not simply facilitating international child abuse and human trafficking, but is heading a criminal conspiracy against the sovereignty of other states and the law of nations.

Under international law, such actions amount to an act of war; and those responsible are justifiably declared to be an enemy of peace-loving humanity.
Let it be known to the world, therefore, that Jorge Bergoglio, the head of the Church of Rome, is indeed such an enemy of humanity. Accordingly, on Thursday, August 1, 2013, a Bench Warrant Order was issued by the International Common Law Court of Justice in Brussels for the immediate arrest and trial of Jorge Bergoglio for these crimes.
___________________
They still to this date have yet to be able to arrest him as he hides behind the Vatican for cover!

God said, "Let there be light, and there was light".

The Big Bang!!!

The process set in motion, He sat back and watched.

That is evolution.

We can quibble over time frame, that is about all.

He sat back and watched? So he didn't make Eve from a used rib? The garden of Eden is bullshit? Human came up the evolutionary scale by chance, no god involved?

The Garden of Eden may well be bullshit, but it does not follow from there that God was not involved. I am always amazed at how many "non-believers" are biblical literalists.

That's odd. If someone is going to critique and critically assess the bibles, why would you not perform those tasks with what is written in the bibles.

Why accept some parts of the bibles as true, literal renderings and others as not. Who decides what is literal and what is not?

I agree, it is very odd. You hold that there was no Garden of Eden and insist that is the only possible option in one breath. Extremely odd.

The person doing the reading decides what is literal or not. You can decide what you please. But to hold that only a particular and very narrow belief is valid while simultaneously arguing that belief is wrong is absurd. Or, perhaps, just lazy.

I hold that there is no evidence of your alleged garden of Eden. I also hold that a literal 6,000 year old earth, an alleged global flood that cannot be demonstrated, talking snakes and eternal damnation for fruit theft are of myth and legend.

How is any of the above any different from, Hercules and the Giants

"Zeus wasn't always the king of the Greek gods. Ouranos was the king of the first generation of gods, but he was overthrown by Kronos, who was his son. Kronos was father to Zeus and the Olympians, and he, too, was overthrown by his son. Even after Zeus took charge, succeeding generations and different races of gods still competed for control of Olympus.

While Zeus was establishing himself, the Earth gave birth to a new, monstrous set of gods, the Giants, which were fathered by the Sky. The Giants were as tall as mountains and so strong as to be unbeatable. The Olympian gods were anthropomorphic, which means that they looked a lot like human men and women. But the Giants were frightening to look at. According to Apollodorus, their shaggy hair drooped from their heads and chins, and they had dragon scales on their feet."

It certainly doesn't follow that your gods are to be believed when the Greek gods are obviously the true gods.


All beliefs are not equally valid. People may be equally free to embrace any belief they wish to, but doing so in no way lends any validity to some beliefs over other beliefs. There are valid beliefs which conform to the strictures of knowledge (empirical evidence, consistency, adherence to logic, repeatable results, falsifiable) and those that are assertions without benefit of any standards (i.e., theistic claims of all stripes, each devoid of any real evidence.)

Of course. Why hold anyone to a standard of demonstration? Could it be not to do so is just cowardly?

You limit your perspective to a very narrow concept and insist upon sticking with it. The Garden of Eden story is an allegory and I don't personally buy it. But I am able to recognize it for what it is. I feel no need to tear it apart because it does not threaten me at all.

If you want to argue that a particular claim is proven wrong, that is fine. I think we can agree it has been established the sun is not Apollo riding across the sky in his chariot. However, human beings create myths about real things all the time. If I could prove to you that George Washington did not throw a dollar across the Potomac, would you then claim that proved he never existed because a there is a myth about him? So demonstrating Apollo is not the sun does not prove Apollo never existed.

For the overall claim that the universe was a creation by an intelligent being, the evidence for this is zero. Zero meaning no evidence to support either a pro or con position. So my answer to your suggestion that we hold people to a standard of demonstration is..., I completely agree. I hold everyone to the same standard of demonstration - including you. If you think the con position is more valid than the pro, demonstrate it. Just remember that I expect hard evidence, not just statements I am supposed to accept on faith.

 

[Hollie]

How is any of the above any different from, Hercules and the Giants

"Zeus wasn't always the king of the Greek gods. Ouranos was the king of the first generation of gods, but he was overthrown by Kronos, who was his son. Kronos was father to Zeus and the Olympians, and he, too, was overthrown by his son. Even after Zeus took charge, succeeding generations and different races of gods still competed for control of Olympus.

While Zeus was establishing himself, the Earth gave birth to a new, monstrous set of gods, the Giants, which were fathered by the Sky. The Giants were as tall as mountains and so strong as to be unbeatable. The Olympian gods were anthropomorphic, which means that they looked a lot like human men and women. But the Giants were frightening to look at. According to Apollodorus, their shaggy hair drooped from their heads and chins, and they had dragon scales on their feet."

It certainly doesn't follow that your gods are to be believed when the Greek gods are obviously the true gods.


All beliefs are not equally valid. People may be equally free to embrace any belief they wish to, but doing so in no way lends any validity to some beliefs over other beliefs. There are valid beliefs which conform to the strictures of knowledge (empirical evidence, consistency, adherence to logic, repeatable results, falsifiable) and those that are assertions without benefit of any standards (i.e., theistic claims of all stripes, each devoid of any real evidence.)

Of course. Why hold anyone to a standard of demonstration? Could it be not to do so is just cowardly?

By and large, the pagans of the ancient world fully realized that there wasn't literally an omnipotent bearded guy named Zeus walking around on Mt Olympus chucking lightening bolts around. The gods were abstractions representing the various natural and metaphysical forces of the universe. The rites and rituals (practices) were the important part because they helped to attune the practitioner with those forces.

If you go to a Catholic picnic, you'll find a wide variety of opinions around the picnic table on subjects ranging from politics to the sciences to what have you ( I would say in California that less than 5% take the Creation stories in Genesis to be literal). Half are Democrats and half are Republicans. Again, what is important is the practice. Participate in mass, shake hands with your neighbor, say "peace be with you", sing the hymns, put some money in the basket, confess your sins, have a charitable vocation, eat some burgers at the picnic, etc..

The first universities were Catholic, and the first telescopes, and you can go down the list of every single one of the sciences and find Catholics were there from the start. The Origin of the Species was never banned by the Vatican, though there were plenty of local parish priests who railed against it. But, look, Darwin's work was based on the work of Mendel, a priest, and the father of genetics. The dude (Lemaitre) who first proposed the Big Bang theory was a priest.

Some of the posters here seem unable to wrap their minds around how it could be that a deeply religious person can also be an intellectual. It's as if they think that the theory of evolution is absent from the University of Notre Dame, Georgetown, Marquette, USF, Xavier, Dayton, Boston College, etc..

If Godwin's Law refers to the truth that all internet discussions devolve into someone pulling the Hitler card,

Treeshepherd's Law now refers to the truth that all online discussions about religion result in an atheist pulling the Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy card, as if it were impossible to have a deeper understanding of the nature of the gods.

Treeshepherd's law seems to miss a description of how anyone gets that deeper understanding of the nature of the gods. All the religions that have invented gods self-profess to be the word of the "true gods". I guess it falls to you to be the final arbiter.

Everyone's concept of gods comes from various books written by men. It's so convenient that the gods display all these attributes of humanity in texts we know are written by humans (the source being the part of the debate). So why would the gods allow their "immutable word" to be authored by the corruptible hand of man? If the gods would do their own writing and editing, then we would know it wasn't written by man's hand, and then we'd have a foundation to go on.

Again, it boils down to things being confused and muddled and hopelessly complicated because the gods wants them this way. Or, there are no gods and we are discussing a fictional character that workls fine as a fictional character but fails as an actual being. I'm feeling the edge of Occam's razor here...

Seen this way, and when you realize that *everything* else may be questioned, it becomes easy to see two things. The first is that religions have something suspicious about them for being so impervious to questioning, and second, that actually questioning the religions doesn't really bring forth the horror and doom the theists claim it will. It used to be said that plagues and earthquakes came about from god's anger-- now that we know that such claims are nonsense, the theists have had to roll back where god's anger is displayed, which is a place where we can never examine to see if their claims are true-- now god's anger happens after we die. This is *very* convenient for people who wish to make a claim that cannot be investigated for its veracity.

 

[Hollie]

The Tooth Fairy or Sky Pixie comments are supposed to a force field that protects atheists from having to think.

Actually, it's the Wedge Strategy, revised, as a means to get you religionists to establish your General Theory of Supernatural Creation in a form that we can submit for peer review.