Keep that Atheism to Yourself

[TemplarKormac]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

You may not employ Atheism at school sanctioned events, you may only discuss it amongst yourselves. All beliefs must be recognized but yours. You aren't allowed to publicly express a belief that is offensive to others on our property. Likewise, you cannot spread promotional material and hold demonstrations on the campuses of colleges that receive government grants; henceforth, your right to free speech is inconsequential. You cannot use terms unique to your beliefs. You won't be allowed to wear t-shirts that say "there are no gods" or "There is no God." Furthermore, any symbolism related to such a belief may not be used, nor be sanctioned by school officials.

As it relates to you, the Constitutional right to free expression does not apply while you tread the halls of a schoolhouse.

Those who erect any monuments paying homage to Atheism on our property will be forced to tear them down. We support diversity, and are not behooved to show partiality to one belief or another. Well, that is except for you.

Sound familiar? I bet a lot of Atheists would react in a similar manner as Christians do today if they were arbitrarily denied the ability to share the beliefs with others, or openly practice them while being a member of an educational institution. Most likely, they wouldn't like it if they were targeted time after time for what they believe.

 

[dblack]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

BINGO.

 

[S.J.]

Yet we don't hear atheists trying to silence muslims. Hmm. Maybe they're afraid of being beheaded.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

 

[Hollie]

OP, What beliefs or practices are non-Religious people using in schools or government institutions that you feel need to be banned?

 

[PratchettFan]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

No, they are not. Wherever did you get that idea?

 

[amrchaos]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

No, they are not. Wherever did you get that idea?

Probably from the practice of some christian to stand outside of schools(usually off the property, so it is technically legal!) to hand out copies of the NT.


I never experience evangelicalism from someone of the Jewish faith, however. Do Judaic evangelicals exist?

 

[PratchettFan]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

You may not employ Atheism at school sanctioned events, you may only discuss it amongst yourselves. All beliefs must be recognized but yours. You aren't allowed to publicly express a belief that is offensive to others on our property. Likewise, you cannot spread promotional material and hold demonstrations on the campuses of colleges that receive government grants; henceforth, your right to free speech is inconsequential. You cannot use terms unique to your beliefs. You won't be allowed to wear t-shirts that say "there are no gods" or "There is no God." Furthermore, any symbolism related to such a belief may not be used, nor be sanctioned by school officials.

As it relates to you, the Constitutional right to free expression does not apply while you tread the halls of a schoolhouse.

Those who erect any monuments paying homage to Atheism on our property will be forced to tear them down. We support diversity, and are not behooved to show partiality to one belief or another. Well, that is except for you.

Sound familiar? I bet a lot of Atheists would react in a similar manner as Christians do today if they were arbitrarily denied the ability to share the beliefs with others, or openly practice them while being a member of an educational institution. Most likely, they wouldn't like it if they were targeted time after time for what they believe.

It does sound familiar. I grew up in that environment. Prior to the USSC decision in 1961 finding them unconstitutional, there were quite a few states which openly discriminated against Atheists. In N Carolina, S Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Pennsylvania you were banned from holding public office if you were an Atheist. I recall as a child in public school being required to pray. Not allowed.... required. And that was in California. So what you are describing already happened.

And if a teacher showed up to work today with "There is no God" on a t-shirt, they would be instructed to remove it.

 

[PratchettFan]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

No, they are not. Wherever did you get that idea?

Probably from the practice of some christian to stand outside of schools(usually off the property, so it is technically legal!) to hand out copies of the NT.


I never experience evangelicalism from someone of the Jewish faith, however. Do Judaic evangelicals exist?

No. I meant expressions of religious faith are not illegal on government property.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

No, they are not. Wherever did you get that idea?

Probably from the practice of some christian to stand outside of schools(usually off the property, so it is technically legal!) to hand out copies of the NT.


I never experience evangelicalism from someone of the Jewish faith, however. Do Judaic evangelicals exist?

No. I meant expressions of religious faith are not illegal on government property.

If they were then every politician who ever said "god bless America" on the steps if a public building would be arrested

 

[amrchaos]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

No, they are not. Wherever did you get that idea?

Probably from the practice of some christian to stand outside of schools(usually off the property, so it is technically legal!) to hand out copies of the NT.


I never experience evangelicalism from someone of the Jewish faith, however. Do Judaic evangelicals exist?

No. I meant expressions of religious faith are not illegal on government property.

If you mean like praying or something of that nature, you are correct.

If it is open to the public, like a public park or sidewalk, more forms can be taken such as handing out bibles and other forms of evangelicalism.

However doing that in a public school(Which, by the way, is not considered "open to the public") maybe illegal.

 

[amrchaos]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

You may not employ Atheism at school sanctioned events, you may only discuss it amongst yourselves. All beliefs must be recognized but yours. You aren't allowed to publicly express a belief that is offensive to others on our property. Likewise, you cannot spread promotional material and hold demonstrations on the campuses of colleges that receive government grants; henceforth, your right to free speech is inconsequential. You cannot use terms unique to your beliefs. You won't be allowed to wear t-shirts that say "there are no gods" or "There is no God." Furthermore, any symbolism related to such a belief may not be used, nor be sanctioned by school officials.

As it relates to you, the Constitutional right to free expression does not apply while you tread the halls of a schoolhouse.

Those who erect any monuments paying homage to Atheism on our property will be forced to tear them down. We support diversity, and are not behooved to show partiality to one belief or another. Well, that is except for you.

Sound familiar? I bet a lot of Atheists would react in a similar manner as Christians do today if they were arbitrarily denied the ability to share the beliefs with others, or openly practice them while being a member of an educational institution. Most likely, they wouldn't like it if they were targeted time after time for what they believe.

It does sound familiar. I grew up in that environment. Prior to the USSC decision in 1961 finding them unconstitutional, there were quite a few states which openly discriminated against Atheists. In N Carolina, S Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Pennsylvania you were banned from holding public office if you were an Atheist. I recall as a child in public school being required to pray. Not allowed.... required. And that was in California. So what you are describing already happened.

And if a teacher showed up to work today with "There is no God" on a t-shirt, they would be instructed to remove it.

I wonder what would happen to a teacher that had a T-shirt stating every conviction--be it theism, atheism and non-theism.

In all probability, they would have to remove that shirt as well, even if the message was basically describing what secularism is.

 

[PratchettFan]

Expressions of religious faith on government property are illegal. End of story. Atheists and secular groups are well within their rights to object to that. Notice they aren't standing out in front of churches and synagogues saying don't go in there.

No, they are not. Wherever did you get that idea?

Probably from the practice of some christian to stand outside of schools(usually off the property, so it is technically legal!) to hand out copies of the NT.


I never experience evangelicalism from someone of the Jewish faith, however. Do Judaic evangelicals exist?

No. I meant expressions of religious faith are not illegal on government property.

If you mean like praying or something of that nature, you are correct.

If it is open to the public, like a public park or sidewalk, more forms can be taken such as handing out bibles and other forms of evangelicalism.

However doing that in a public school(Which, by the way, is not considered "open to the public") maybe illegal.

It isn't in a public school either. So long as the individual is not acting in the capacity of a representative of the government, you can pray, express your beliefs, whatever so long as you do not disrupt the purpose of the school.

All of the restrictions being bemoaned really come down to restricting the ability of people to impose their beliefs upon others, not express them. It comes down to the argument that if I can't force you to act in the manner I choose, then you are preventing me from acting in the manner I choose - which is to force you. And that is an infringement of my right to infringe your rights.

 

[PratchettFan]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

You may not employ Atheism at school sanctioned events, you may only discuss it amongst yourselves. All beliefs must be recognized but yours. You aren't allowed to publicly express a belief that is offensive to others on our property. Likewise, you cannot spread promotional material and hold demonstrations on the campuses of colleges that receive government grants; henceforth, your right to free speech is inconsequential. You cannot use terms unique to your beliefs. You won't be allowed to wear t-shirts that say "there are no gods" or "There is no God." Furthermore, any symbolism related to such a belief may not be used, nor be sanctioned by school officials.

As it relates to you, the Constitutional right to free expression does not apply while you tread the halls of a schoolhouse.

Those who erect any monuments paying homage to Atheism on our property will be forced to tear them down. We support diversity, and are not behooved to show partiality to one belief or another. Well, that is except for you.

Sound familiar? I bet a lot of Atheists would react in a similar manner as Christians do today if they were arbitrarily denied the ability to share the beliefs with others, or openly practice them while being a member of an educational institution. Most likely, they wouldn't like it if they were targeted time after time for what they believe.

It does sound familiar. I grew up in that environment. Prior to the USSC decision in 1961 finding them unconstitutional, there were quite a few states which openly discriminated against Atheists. In N Carolina, S Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Pennsylvania you were banned from holding public office if you were an Atheist. I recall as a child in public school being required to pray. Not allowed.... required. And that was in California. So what you are describing already happened.

And if a teacher showed up to work today with "There is no God" on a t-shirt, they would be instructed to remove it.

I wonder what would happen to a teacher that had a T-shirt stating every conviction--be it theism, atheism and non-theism.

In all probability, they would have to remove that shirt as well, even if the message was basically describing what secularism is.

They would be told to remove it because the t-shirt would be intended to put forth a personal agenda and they are being paid to teach. If you walked into your job wearing something disruptive to your employer's business, they would have the right to make you change. There is no difference here.

Teachers have been known to dress up in a costume for a given lesson. They are talking about George Washington so they come in dressed as George Washington to engage the class. But if they came dressed that way every day regardless of the subject, they would soon be sent home with instructions to change.

 

[amrchaos]

It seems you have a better grasp on the concept than I do, PF

So I have a question for you. Let say Students decided to form a prayer group in a public school. It is led and organized by the students and no school employee is aiding them.

What do you think the school or school board would do to such a group?

 

[JoeB131]

Not what you thought, was it? Most likely you thought this thread would be riddled with a hateful, expletive filled rant railing against Atheists. Well, being a Christian, I support free thought and free expression; even if it doesn't involve people of my faith. But I digress.

What if Christians scrutinized Atheists, and then tried to use the force of law to ban their beliefs and practices in schools and government institutions? Or in public for that matter? What if they strove to have the government take down monuments paying homage to their beliefs on government property?

Let's suppose the shoe was on the other foot. Let's also suppose Atheists today were put in a situation where they weren't allowed to express themselves freely in or around schools or government property. The statement below is purely a supposition, being the direct antithesis of the way those of the Christian faith are treated by proponents of Atheism:

I'm sorry, there was a "monument" to atheism somewhere someone had to take down?

Really, Runs with Scissors?

Do you have a picture of that monument?

Here's the real problem we have with you Christians on the public square.

It's that you don't want science taught in the classroom because it contradicts your belief in sky pixies.

It's that you want to override what a doctor thinks is the best course of treatment for a patient because you are all upset about ladies having control over their lady parts.

 

[JoeB131]

It seems you have a better grasp on the concept than I do, PF

So I have a question for you. Let say Students decided to form a prayer group in a public school. It is led and organized by the students and no school employee is aiding them.

What do you think the school or school board would do to such a group?

Hopefully, they would say, "You're here to learn, not to pray. Get back to work!"

 

[PratchettFan]

It seems you have a better grasp on the concept than I do, PF

So I have a question for you. Let say Students decided to form a prayer group in a public school. It is led and organized by the students and no school employee is aiding them.

What do you think the school or school board would do to such a group?

They would allow it. Or they should allow it. There are groups like that all over the place. This is the ACLU position on it, and I think they have it right: http://www.aclu-tn.org/pdfs/briefer_religion_in_public_schools.pdf

 

[PostmodernProph]

No one should be allowed to use coercive government to push their personal beliefs on others.

/shrugs.....its not as if anyone does......did the police drag you to a church recently and baptize you against your will?......