Poll: Most Doctors Favor Public

[SmarterThanHick]

10% of them favor "public only" care, proving that America's medical schools are a complete and utter failure.

I'm sorry, do you know anything about medical schools whatsoever? Didn't think so. So why are you commenting?

Sorry if I don't agree with anything the majority of those greedy bastards want.

oh yes, cuz doctors go into medicine... not to help people, but for your money. that's why they offer complementary cigarettes and donuts when you come in - for the job security.

The crux of this is that most doctors do not want the Obamacare, by a margin of 2 out of 3. Not like what has been stated previouisly from the AMA. Only around 18% of doctors are a member of that group, and I'm almost positive not all of them are on board with a healthcare overhaul.

As I have a bit more interactions with the AMA than you do, let me clarify. The AMA is a group that represents doctors, using yearly dues for their purposes. About 30% of doctors are a part of the AMA, and the other 70% aren't for reasons of activism and support to this organization. That being said, the AMA is the largest voice for doctors. Don't confuse apathy with 70% of docs agreeing you.

NPR? I bet the find that most PBS stations favpr public funding of, uh, the PBS.

Alrighty. NPR is a public organization, Investors is obviously more of a free-market oriented source. Each source - as could be easily predicted - makes different conclusions. How about somebody finds a third - and more 'unbiased' source? So far, it is a tie. I, for one, would like Xotoxi's input - he's a doctor after all

Both of the above two quotes are just wrong. Keep in mind that Investors Business Daily is reporting on a survey conducted by Investors Business Daily. NPR is reporting on a survey conducted by Mount Sinai School of Medicine, that acquired double the amount of doctor responses. Now, which of the two sources do you think has better working knowledge of unbiased scientific research? Perhaps we can look at the questions to find out.

Mount Sinai School of Medicine, using highly trained/educated doctors, scientists, and hired survey experts, publishing their findings in The New England Journal of Medicine, the top medical journal in the country, asking:

Respondents were asked to
indicate which of three options they would most strongly support:
1. Public and Private Options: Provide people under age 65 the choice of enrolling in
a new public health insurance plan (like Medicare) or in private plans.
2. Private Options Only: Provide people with tax credits or low-income subsidies to
buy private insurance coverage (without creating a public plan option).
3. Public Option Only: Eliminate private insurance and cover everyone in a single
public plan like Medicare.

IBD/TIPP Poll refused to release their methods or even the people who administered the poll (let alone their credentials), publishing it nowhere, but asking:
Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better?
(yes, that was a yes/no question they asked - oh and btw, the public option has no intention of insuring 47 million people)
If congress passes it's healthcare plan will you consider leaving your practice or taking an early retirement?

Now, which one of these two sources seems more credible? Which one is using blatantly biased questions with poorly defined meanings? Fox news, even though it ran with the story, stated flat out the IBD/TIPP poll was unscientific.

gg. you're done.

 

[Meister]

10% of them favor "public only" care, proving that America's medical schools are a complete and utter failure.

I'm sorry, do you know anything about medical schools whatsoever? Didn't think so. So why are you commenting?

Sorry if I don't agree with anything the majority of those greedy bastards want.

oh yes, cuz doctors go into medicine... not to help people, but for your money. that's why they offer complementary cigarettes and donuts when you come in - for the job security.



As I have a bit more interactions with the AMA than you do, let me clarify. The AMA is a group that represents doctors, using yearly dues for their purposes. About 30% of doctors are a part of the AMA, and the other 70% aren't for reasons of activism and support to this organization. That being said, the AMA is the largest voice for doctors. Don't confuse apathy with 70% of docs agreeing you.

Alrighty. NPR is a public organization, Investors is obviously more of a free-market oriented source. Each source - as could be easily predicted - makes different conclusions. How about somebody finds a third - and more 'unbiased' source? So far, it is a tie. I, for one, would like Xotoxi's input - he's a doctor after all

Both of the above two quotes are just wrong. Keep in mind that Investors Business Daily is reporting on a survey conducted by Investors Business Daily. NPR is reporting on a survey conducted by Mount Sinai School of Medicine, that acquired double the amount of doctor responses. Now, which of the two sources do you think has better working knowledge of unbiased scientific research? Perhaps we can look at the questions to find out.

Mount Sinai School of Medicine, using highly trained/educated doctors, scientists, and hired survey experts, publishing their findings in The New England Journal of Medicine, the top medical journal in the country, asking:

Respondents were asked to
indicate which of three options they would most strongly support:
1. Public and Private Options: Provide people under age 65 the choice of enrolling in
a new public health insurance plan (like Medicare) or in private plans.
2. Private Options Only: Provide people with tax credits or low-income subsidies to
buy private insurance coverage (without creating a public plan option).
3. Public Option Only: Eliminate private insurance and cover everyone in a single
public plan like Medicare.

IBD/TIPP Poll refused to release their methods or even the people who administered the poll (let alone their credentials), publishing it nowhere, but asking:
Do you believe the government can cover 47 million more people and it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better?
(yes, that was a yes/no question they asked - oh and btw, the public option has no intention of insuring 47 million people)
If congress passes it's healthcare plan will you consider leaving your practice or taking an early retirement?

Now, which one of these two sources seems more credible? Which one is using blatantly biased questions with poorly defined meanings? Fox news, even though it ran with the story, stated flat out the IBD/TIPP poll was unscientific.

gg. you're done.

Please let me know how much funding Mt. Sinai School of Medicine receives from the government? It could have impact on the outcome.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Please let me know how much funding Mt. Sinai School of Medicine receives from the government? It could have impact on the outcome.

Wait wait wait. Let me get your underhanded insinuation straight. You're claiming that a research and medical school posing unbiased questions to 6000 randomly selected doctors who fully disclosed every inch of their research methods and results, publishing it in one of the top medical journals with one of the most difficult peer review processes, somehow conned scientists and doctors across the country with... what? Where exactly are you claiming their bias? Did they make up the numbers? What exactly are you suggesting they did here that deceived the smartest minds in the country but was somehow caught by you, the averagely educated American with no scientific background?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Wait wait wait. Let me get your underhanded insinuation straight. You're claiming that a research and medical school posing unbiased questions to 6000 randomly selected doctors who fully disclosed every inch of their research methods and results, publishing it in one of the top medical journals with one of the most difficult peer review processes, somehow conned scientists and doctors across the country with... what? Where exactly are you claiming their bias? Did they make up the numbers? What exactly are you suggesting they did here that deceived the smartest minds in the country but was somehow caught by you, the averagely educated American with no scientific background?

Meister could have 3 doctorates in Physics for all you know .........

 

[Maple]

Both plans are dead on arrival in the house and senate, get used to it, the public option is gone, it is opposed by 55% of Americans, the coop won't fly in the house, it's all up in smoke.

A suggestion, why doesn't the govenment get the best physicians, hospital administrators, nursing home administers, insurance executives, the big pharm companies, and the best economic advisors who bring along their best CPA's Lock them all in a room for 6 months and wait to see what they come up with for health care reform. All I have seen is a bunch of politicians many who have never worked outside being a politician attempting to overhaul a system that they know absolutely NADA about.

 

[KittenKoder]

I wonder how many of the respondents to the poll have been padding Medicare/Medicaid claims for decades and see this as just another "opportunity"?

Do you honestly believe that a doctor who pads Medicare/Medicaid claims doesn't also pad insurance company claims? This argument goes into the circular file.

Not really, there is a good point. When dealing with the insurance companies they have to compete to get onto those policies, with Medicare/Medicaid they don't. Thus the padding would be less for private insurance companies just for that reason.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Meister could have 3 doctorates in Physics for all you know .........

That's a legit concern with an intention of speaking out against stereotyping, and for that I respect your response. However, even a physicist would be intimately familiar with the peer review process, and have heard of the New England Journal of Medicine.

 

[Meister]

Please let me know how much funding Mt. Sinai School of Medicine receives from the government? It could have impact on the outcome.

Wait wait wait. Let me get your underhanded insinuation straight. You're claiming that a research and medical school posing unbiased questions to 6000 randomly selected doctors who fully disclosed every inch of their research methods and results, publishing it in one of the top medical journals with one of the most difficult peer review processes, somehow conned scientists and doctors across the country with... what? Where exactly are you claiming their bias? Did they make up the numbers? What exactly are you suggesting they did here that deceived the smartest minds in the country but was somehow caught by you, the averagely educated American with no scientific background?

Wait, wait, wait...I asked a legitimate question with out an answer. I don't trust our government. Not an underhanded insinuation at all...just curious because of my concern with our government. I have the same concern with "Man made global warming." I get real tired of "all the societies, all the universities" in the world kind of crap. Do you realize how many papers were sent in to the UN to get that 917 or 970 papers that proved a consensus of Man Made Global Warming? Over 14,000, that's why I have no trust. I have no doctorates degree like yourself, apparently, but I'm the average American that is real tired of getting lied to.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Wait, wait, wait...I asked a legitimate question with out an answer. I don't trust our government. Not an underhanded insinuation at all...just curious because of my concern with our government. I have the same concern with "Man made global warming." I get real tired of "all the societies, all the universities" in the world kind of crap. Do you realize how many papers were sent in to the UN to get that 917 or 970 papers that proved a consensus of Man Made Global Warming? Over 14,000, that's why I have no trust. I have no doctorates degree like yourself, apparently, but I'm the average American that is real tired of getting lied to.

And yet your response to feeling lied to is not education and expanding your analytic abilities or critical thinking, but instead just distrusting everything and instantly degrading/dismissing anything that might be indirectly attached to something you don't like.

Science is stand alone. This project could have been funded by Obama himself, and it still wouldn't change the results. That's why researchers get paid at the *beginning* of their research, not at the end based on their results.

Let me look up the funding source for you though. The article states "No potential conflict of interest relevant to this article was reported." (which is a required disclosure, whereby government funding is never hidden). The two doctors are affiliated with the Division of Internal Medicine at the school of medicine, and one of the two also works at a VA hospital. As it was just a survey, real funding wasn't exactly needed (postage was probably paid for by the division). Either way, it doesn't appear to be NIH funding. Sorry.

 

[CommonSensor]

Both plans are dead on arrival in the house and senate, get used to it, the public option is gone, it is opposed by 55% of Americans, the coop won't fly in the house, it's all up in smoke.

A suggestion, why doesn't the govenment get the best physicians, hospital administrators, nursing home administers, insurance executives, the big pharm companies, and the best economic advisors who bring along their best CPA's Lock them all in a room for 6 months and wait to see what they come up with for health care reform. All I have seen is a bunch of politicians many who have never worked outside being a politician attempting to overhaul a system that they know absolutely NADA about.

Yes, 55% don't want this bill, but I'd like to hear what you think that means. Are you saying 55% are against it because it has some type of public option/coop provision? Or are you representing that figure honestly, as a combination of those that don't support it BECAUSE it doesn't have a public option, and those that won't support it because it does. I hadn't thought of looking into it, so thanks for that. I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet more won't support it because it doesn't. I'll let ya know!

-sensored