POLICE BLAME ZEMIR BEGIC FOR HIS OWN MURDER BY HAMMER-WIELDING TEENS

[Wake]

No, but I know of a mass media or two and many people who seem to think so.

What do you think would happen if the skin colors in this situation were reversed?

Hypothetical "what would have happened if" questions are nothing more than exercises in bias confirmation.

There are no "mass medias" in this thread - just a bunch of Conservatives swearing that this must have been about race.

I am a conservative, yet I did not swear this must have been about race.

Do you think, when Wilson killed Brown, that it was about race?

I didn't say "all" Conservatives did so.

As to your second question, I have no idea.

I'd say that race may have had something to do with Wilson's stopping Brown to begin with, but I don't think it would have played out any differently if the confrontation had happened with a white guy.

...though you did say, in this thread, that just a bunch of Conservatives were swearing that this must have been about race. I am a Conservative in this thread, and have not done so, which puts that earlier statement in question. (Not meaning to be rude. I feel like arguing points at the moment. )

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

You aren't sure? If you are a liberal, and I may be wrong about that, I have experienced an awful lot of liberals who assumed the Wilson/Brown situation was about race. Almost every waking moment on CNN and MSNBC it went.

Why do you surmise race may have had something to do with Wilson stopping Brown?

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Do you reconcile that I am not a Conservative who was swearing in this thread that this must have been about race?

I'm not sure if "Leftist" would be more accurate. I defer your political identity to your choosing out of respect. In my opinion it does feel as if CNN and MSNBC does speak liberals, though not all of them, and that they also speak for themselves and their bottom lines. It is true that neither liberals nor conservatives have the same opinions within their groups. I don't recall stating otherwise.

You mention that you surmise that race may have played a part because you are white, and that you have walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and have never been stopped or hassled about it. Maybe your state, and your police force are different, and not along the lines of race relations. Maybe you were not the focus at the time. Maybe other white people have been stopped. Maybe those specific officers were not doing their job, or were preoccupied, or were not interested in stopping you for breaking the law. Maybe there are also black people who have done so who haven't been stopped. Those are just a few things to consider, and all of them are reasons to have doubt that it was solely about race.

theDoctorisIn

 

[Gracie]

No, but I know of a mass media or two and many people who seem to think so.

What do you think would happen if the skin colors in this situation were reversed?

Hypothetical "what would have happened if" questions are nothing more than exercises in bias confirmation.

There are no "mass medias" in this thread - just a bunch of Conservatives swearing that this must have been about race.

I am a conservative, yet I did not swear this must have been about race.

Do you think, when Wilson killed Brown, that it was about race?

I didn't say "all" Conservatives did so.

As to your second question, I have no idea.

I'd say that race may have had something to do with Wilson's stopping Brown to begin with, but I don't think it would have played out any differently if the confrontation had happened with a white guy.

...though you did say, in this thread, that just a bunch of Conservatives were swearing that this must have been about race. I am a Conservative in this thread, and have not done so, which puts that earlier statement in question. (Not meaning to be rude. I feel like arguing points at the moment. )

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

You aren't sure? If you are a liberal, and I may be wrong about that, I have experienced an awful lot of liberals who assumed the Wilson/Brown situation was about race. Almost every waking moment on CNN and MSNBC it went.

Why do you surmise race may have had something to do with Wilson stopping Brown?

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

 

[Gracie]

Wilson was called to assist a child, I believe. He was there, doing whatever needed to be done with that family, before being called about the thugs that just roughed up a store owner and stole some items. I wonder what color the kid was that Wilson was assisting before that call.

 

[boedicca]

Too bad you RWnuts hate the federal government. Otherwise you could call for a civil rights/hate crime violation investigation,

without looking like hypocrites lol.

Actually, normal people would just like the law to be enforced equally. This young man was targeted for his race and murdered in a cold blood. The murderers should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives.

 

[Gracie]

oy

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Hypothetical "what would have happened if" questions are nothing more than exercises in bias confirmation.

There are no "mass medias" in this thread - just a bunch of Conservatives swearing that this must have been about race.

I am a conservative, yet I did not swear this must have been about race.

Do you think, when Wilson killed Brown, that it was about race?

I didn't say "all" Conservatives did so.

As to your second question, I have no idea.

I'd say that race may have had something to do with Wilson's stopping Brown to begin with, but I don't think it would have played out any differently if the confrontation had happened with a white guy.

...though you did say, in this thread, that just a bunch of Conservatives were swearing that this must have been about race. I am a Conservative in this thread, and have not done so, which puts that earlier statement in question. (Not meaning to be rude. I feel like arguing points at the moment. )

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

You aren't sure? If you are a liberal, and I may be wrong about that, I have experienced an awful lot of liberals who assumed the Wilson/Brown situation was about race. Almost every waking moment on CNN and MSNBC it went.

Why do you surmise race may have had something to do with Wilson stopping Brown?

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Too bad you RWnuts hate the federal government. Otherwise you could call for a civil rights/hate crime violation investigation,

without looking like hypocrites lol.

Actually, normal people would just like the law to be enforced equally. This young man was targeted for his race and murdered in a cold blood. The murderers should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives.

How do you know why he was "targeted"?

The murderers will likely spend the rest of their lives in jail, though.

 

[Gracie]

I am a conservative, yet I did not swear this must have been about race.

Do you think, when Wilson killed Brown, that it was about race?

I didn't say "all" Conservatives did so.

As to your second question, I have no idea.

I'd say that race may have had something to do with Wilson's stopping Brown to begin with, but I don't think it would have played out any differently if the confrontation had happened with a white guy.

...though you did say, in this thread, that just a bunch of Conservatives were swearing that this must have been about race. I am a Conservative in this thread, and have not done so, which puts that earlier statement in question. (Not meaning to be rude. I feel like arguing points at the moment. )

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

You aren't sure? If you are a liberal, and I may be wrong about that, I have experienced an awful lot of liberals who assumed the Wilson/Brown situation was about race. Almost every waking moment on CNN and MSNBC it went.

Why do you surmise race may have had something to do with Wilson stopping Brown?

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

He told him to get out of the road. If it were a white guy sauntering down the middle of the street holding up traffic, do you think he would have let that slide?

 

[R.D.]

Too bad you RWnuts hate the federal government. Otherwise you could call for a civil rights/hate crime violation investigation,

without looking like hypocrites lol.

Actually, normal people would just like the law to be enforced equally. This young man was targeted for his race and murdered in a cold blood. The murderers should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives.

The police report has too many omissions to take at face value

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I am a conservative, yet I did not swear this must have been about race.

Do you think, when Wilson killed Brown, that it was about race?

I didn't say "all" Conservatives did so.

As to your second question, I have no idea.

I'd say that race may have had something to do with Wilson's stopping Brown to begin with, but I don't think it would have played out any differently if the confrontation had happened with a white guy.

...though you did say, in this thread, that just a bunch of Conservatives were swearing that this must have been about race. I am a Conservative in this thread, and have not done so, which puts that earlier statement in question. (Not meaning to be rude. I feel like arguing points at the moment. )

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

You aren't sure? If you are a liberal, and I may be wrong about that, I have experienced an awful lot of liberals who assumed the Wilson/Brown situation was about race. Almost every waking moment on CNN and MSNBC it went.

Why do you surmise race may have had something to do with Wilson stopping Brown?

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

Remind us of the last time a black cop shot a white person they got accused of overacting racism and police brutality? We have had 3 specific cases in the last month where that has been true of white cops and in one of them the cop was returning fire at a perp that shot at him, yet SHarpton and company all claimed it was racism and that cops don't care about black lives.

Now be specific cite for us when that happened to a black cop and a white "victim"?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I didn't say "all" Conservatives did so.

As to your second question, I have no idea.

I'd say that race may have had something to do with Wilson's stopping Brown to begin with, but I don't think it would have played out any differently if the confrontation had happened with a white guy.

...though you did say, in this thread, that just a bunch of Conservatives were swearing that this must have been about race. I am a Conservative in this thread, and have not done so, which puts that earlier statement in question. (Not meaning to be rude. I feel like arguing points at the moment. )

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

You aren't sure? If you are a liberal, and I may be wrong about that, I have experienced an awful lot of liberals who assumed the Wilson/Brown situation was about race. Almost every waking moment on CNN and MSNBC it went.

Why do you surmise race may have had something to do with Wilson stopping Brown?

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

He told him to get out of the road. If it were a white guy sauntering down the middle of the street holding up traffic, do you think he would have let that slide?

From my own personal experience being a rather delinquent white teenager with no respect for the law, I can say absolute certainty that I got away with a lot more than my black friends could.

So yes, I'm confident that the initial contact between Wilson and Brown would have been different had Brown been white.

 

[Gracie]

...though you did say, in this thread, that just a bunch of Conservatives were swearing that this must have been about race. I am a Conservative in this thread, and have not done so, which puts that earlier statement in question. (Not meaning to be rude. I feel like arguing points at the moment. )

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

You aren't sure? If you are a liberal, and I may be wrong about that, I have experienced an awful lot of liberals who assumed the Wilson/Brown situation was about race. Almost every waking moment on CNN and MSNBC it went.

Why do you surmise race may have had something to do with Wilson stopping Brown?

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

He told him to get out of the road. If it were a white guy sauntering down the middle of the street holding up traffic, do you think he would have let that slide?

From my own personal experience being a rather delinquent white teenager with no respect for the law, I can say absolute certainty that I got away with a lot more than my black friends could.

So yes, I'm confident that the initial contact between Wilson and Brown would have been different had Brown been white.

I was no dainty darling myself. And yeah, I got busted a few times in my youth but I never saw a jail cell. It's a good thing to be friends with the chief of police, lol. Or rather, your parents are besties.

Anywho...he was called on to do his job. Brats were holding up traffic. He then saw the cigars on said brat. Brat started shit when he told him to get out of the road. Brat then tried to take his gun. Brat then ran, then turned around to charge. Brat got his ass shot. Then his wonderful parent/ex con parents booty call dude started a riot. I could go on and on.
We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

A "bunch" of Conservatives in this thread have. A "bunch" is not "all".

See Rozman, boeddica, etc...

There's no word for what I am, but I'll agree that I fall on the left side of things. CNN and MSNBC don't speak for "liberals", they speak for themselves and their bottom lines. Either way, it's as stupid to assume that all liberals have the same opinions as it is to do so for Conservatives.

I surmise that race may have played a part because I'm white, and I've walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and I've never been stopped and hassled about it.

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

He told him to get out of the road. If it were a white guy sauntering down the middle of the street holding up traffic, do you think he would have let that slide?

From my own personal experience being a rather delinquent white teenager with no respect for the law, I can say absolute certainty that I got away with a lot more than my black friends could.

So yes, I'm confident that the initial contact between Wilson and Brown would have been different had Brown been white.

I was no dainty darling myself. And yeah, I got busted a few times in my youth but I never saw a jail cell. It's a good thing to be friends with the chief of police, lol. Or rather, your parents are besties.

Anywho...he was called on to do his job. Brats were holding up traffic. He then saw the cigars on said brat. Brat started shit when he told him to get out of the road. Brat then tried to take his gun. Brat then ran, then turned around to charge. Brat got his ass shot. Then his wonderful parent/ex con parents booty call dude started a riot. I could go on and on.
We will just have to agree to disagree.

We're not even really disagreeing that much - I agree that Brown acted staggeringly inappropriately and I'm mostly convinced that Wilson acted appropriately to the situation.

That doesn't mean that Brown's race had nothing to do with why the stop happened in the first place, though. Denying that there's a significant difference in the way police react and respond to black males vs. white males is as silly as making everything about race.

 

[Wake]

Would you please engage #21, Doctor?

 

[Gracie]

Really. And I presume you didn't just rob a store and push around a little pakistani guy either, or that your description was not called in since you did no such thing. Right?

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

He told him to get out of the road. If it were a white guy sauntering down the middle of the street holding up traffic, do you think he would have let that slide?

From my own personal experience being a rather delinquent white teenager with no respect for the law, I can say absolute certainty that I got away with a lot more than my black friends could.

So yes, I'm confident that the initial contact between Wilson and Brown would have been different had Brown been white.

I was no dainty darling myself. And yeah, I got busted a few times in my youth but I never saw a jail cell. It's a good thing to be friends with the chief of police, lol. Or rather, your parents are besties.

Anywho...he was called on to do his job. Brats were holding up traffic. He then saw the cigars on said brat. Brat started shit when he told him to get out of the road. Brat then tried to take his gun. Brat then ran, then turned around to charge. Brat got his ass shot. Then his wonderful parent/ex con parents booty call dude started a riot. I could go on and on.
We will just have to agree to disagree.

We're not even really disagreeing that much - I agree that Brown acted staggeringly inappropriately and I'm mostly convinced that Wilson acted appropriately to the situation.

That doesn't mean that Brown's race had nothing to do with why the stop happened in the first place, though. Denying that there's a significant difference in the way police react and respond to black males vs. white males is as silly as making everything about race.

But, while on the way to the store that was robbed, two guys were walking in the middle of the busy street holding up traffic. It doesn't matter whether they were black, white, green or pink. It was a dangerous situation. He didn't pick them out of the blue just cuz they were black. He saw them causing a traffic problem. THEN it all clicked into place when he told them to get on the curb and saw the cigars..AFTER Brown told him he was a pussy.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Do you reconcile that I am not a Conservative who was swearing in this thread that this must have been about race?

There's nothing to "reconcile". I never said that you were doing so, or "all" Conservatives were.

Just a bunch of them.

I'm not sure if "Leftist" would be more accurate. I defer your political identity to your choosing out of respect. In my opinion it does feel as if CNN and MSNBC does speak liberals, though not all of them, and that they also speak for themselves and their bottom lines. It is true that neither liberals nor conservatives have the same opinions within their groups. I don't recall stating otherwise.

Political ideological tags are meaningless, which is why I don't use them to describe myself. Everyone who identifies as a "Conservative" or a "Liberal" has a slightly different definition of what the term means. Politics is personal, there's no reason to come up with labels for it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "CNN and MSNBC does speak liberals". If you simply missed a word and meant to have "for" in there, you're completely wrong. As a Conservative, does FOX NEWS speak for you?

There's a significant difference between pandering to an ideological viewpoint and representing it. MSNBC may speak to liberals, but they don't speak for liberals.

You mention that you surmise that race may have played a part because you are white, and that you have walked down the middle of many streets in front of police and have never been stopped or hassled about it. Maybe your state, and your police force are different, and not along the lines of race relations. Maybe you were not the focus at the time. Maybe other white people have been stopped. Maybe those specific officers were not doing their job, or were preoccupied, or were not interested in stopping you for breaking the law. Maybe there are also black people who have done so who haven't been stopped. Those are just a few things to consider, and all of them are reasons to have doubt that it was solely about race.

theDoctorisIn

I'm not referring to a single incident, I'm referring to a lifetime of experiences. When I was younger, I did a lot of fucked up shit. I broke a lot of laws, and got away with almost all of it, no small part due to my skin color. I've watched police hassle black friends of mine for things that I was participating in too, while they ignored me completely.

You'll also notice that at no point did I say it was "solely" about race, just that race may very well have been a factor.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Seeing as how Darren Wilson has testified that he didn't connect Brown to the store robbery until after he had stopped him, it is entirely beside the point.

He told him to get out of the road. If it were a white guy sauntering down the middle of the street holding up traffic, do you think he would have let that slide?

From my own personal experience being a rather delinquent white teenager with no respect for the law, I can say absolute certainty that I got away with a lot more than my black friends could.

So yes, I'm confident that the initial contact between Wilson and Brown would have been different had Brown been white.

I was no dainty darling myself. And yeah, I got busted a few times in my youth but I never saw a jail cell. It's a good thing to be friends with the chief of police, lol. Or rather, your parents are besties.

Anywho...he was called on to do his job. Brats were holding up traffic. He then saw the cigars on said brat. Brat started shit when he told him to get out of the road. Brat then tried to take his gun. Brat then ran, then turned around to charge. Brat got his ass shot. Then his wonderful parent/ex con parents booty call dude started a riot. I could go on and on.
We will just have to agree to disagree.

We're not even really disagreeing that much - I agree that Brown acted staggeringly inappropriately and I'm mostly convinced that Wilson acted appropriately to the situation.

That doesn't mean that Brown's race had nothing to do with why the stop happened in the first place, though. Denying that there's a significant difference in the way police react and respond to black males vs. white males is as silly as making everything about race.

But, while on the way to the store that was robbed, two guys were walking in the middle of the busy street holding up traffic. It doesn't matter whether they were black, white, green or pink. It was a dangerous situation. He didn't pick them out of the blue just cuz they were black. He saw them causing a traffic problem. THEN it all clicked into place when he told them to get on the curb and saw the cigars..AFTER Brown told him he was a pussy.

Wilson wasn't "on the way" to the store that was robbed. As he said pretty clearly in his testimony, that call (the robbery) was being handled by other officers, he had nothing at all to do with it.

 

[whitehall]

The dirty little secret is that a white kid (or a muslem) who is found dead in a "bad neighborhood" will always be blamed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time just as cynical media types use the term "known crack house". Why should gang controlled neighborhoods and "known crack houses" exist? Blame politicians not the Police.

 

[Yarddog]

So, if white people did this to a black person, under the same conditions, race wouldn't have been considered to have played a role? I doubt Sharpton or Jackson would forgo that opportunity.

Your opinion of what Sharpton or Jackson would do in your hypothetical situation notwithstanding, do you think that any crime committed by someone of a different race than the victim is automatically race-based?

Well, the police said they were not investigatiing it even as a hate crime. I find it amazing that not only is race ruled out but hate is ruled out as well. Hm,
obviously thats on purpose so as not to escalate violence

 

[Katzndogz]

If Begic had not stopped his car but slammed on the gas and run over those sorry asses would that be a hate crime?