Planned Parenthood clinics did 327,653 abortions in its fiscal year 2014

[Carla_Danger]

Rape and incest are also an inconvenience. (eye roll)

In a perfect world, no one would get pregnant until its planned. Do we live in a perfect world?

typical....you have no moral standing to support the 99% of unborn child killings that don't involve rape or incest, so you only talk about the 1%.....fine, I waive any objection to abortions in the case of rape or incest.......now how are you going to defend your position?.......

I'm going to defend my position by saying the Supreme Court made the right decision, and women should not have to give birth against their will.

and I am going to defend mine by pointing out that unborn children should not be killed against theirs.........

A zygote/fetus doesn't have a will of its own, because that would require conscious and unconscious reasoning. In that case, you could then ask the fetus if it wants to be born into a life of abuse and poverty. (sarcasm)

would you rather have died than experienced the abuse you suffered as a child?......

Since my parents were Middle Class and not abusive, no.

However...

EL RENO, Okla. — A Canadian County jury took less than three hours to find John and Sonja Kluth guilty on almost all the counts against them.

The Yukon couple were each facing six counts: one count of child abuse and one count of child neglect for each of their three adopted children.

The jury found them guilty on all twelve counts, except for one count of child neglect against their adopted daughter for John Kluth.

The jury recommended ten years in prison on each of his other five counts.

But they came down harder on Sonja Kluth, recommending life in prison for just one of her counts of child abuse against their oldest adopted son.

This case came to light in November of 2010 when the oldest son ran away from home and was found sleeping in a box behind a Braum’s in Oklahoma City.

He told authorities the abuse was so bad, he didn’t want to go back home.

In a case they’re calling the worst they’ve ever seen, prosecutors said the Kluths beat, burned and strangled their children, forced them to sleep in cellars and dog crates, and made them eat dog and cat food.

The couple had nothing to say as they were led in handcuffs from the courtroom to the jail.

The children’s current foster parents were present in the courtroom as the verdict was read.

Yukon couple guilty of child abuse KFOR.com


So, if you want to call me a baby killer, fine, I can play that game, because that makes you responsible for gross neglect, including long term mental and physical abuse and even torture. A fetus cannot feel any pain, but these children certainly did. I will also point out that these children were adopted, so there goes your theory that adoption is always the best answer.

 

[Faun]

A woman who makes her own personal choice is taking personal responsibility for HER OWN life. YOU want to DICTATE what that choice is, so now YOU are taking responsibility for what follows.

Murdering the baby shouldn't be a choice in the first place. You are morally bankrupt.

It is not murder anywhere in the world.

Keep telling yourself that, creep.

I don't have to.
Abortion is not prosecuted as murder

so your point isn't that its not murder.....your point is it isn't prosecuted......

No, murder is a crime; abortion is not. Therefore, abortion is not murder.

 

[PostmodernProph]

they won, civilization lost......

Not necessarily

Prior to planned parenthood, women in our society would have 10-12 children in their lifetime
Now it is down to 2-3
Planned Parenthood wants families to be able to control how many children they can afford

oh lord, don't be an idiot......that didn't change because of planned parenthood, that changed because we moved from an agricultural to an industrial society.......

Are you serious?

Do you think women in cities did not get pregnant? They were not abstaining you know

omigorsh, I was right.......you really ARE a fucking idiot.........

Evidently you live in your own world where you are king

and evidently you no regard for reality, fact or anything except your own ridiculous opinions.....my parents generation grew up in an agricultural society....one from a family of ten, the other of eight.....they had four children......all of us had families of two or three......none of that had anything to do with PP, which wasn't even in existence when my parents were raising us....the same pattern is true for the majority of American society.....

the logical fallacy that you fell foul of is to assume that because something happened at the same time, it was the cause.......unfortunately, you compounded that fallacy by not realizing they didn't even happen at the same time.........

 

[PostmodernProph]

typical....you have no moral standing to support the 99% of unborn child killings that don't involve rape or incest, so you only talk about the 1%.....fine, I waive any objection to abortions in the case of rape or incest.......now how are you going to defend your position?.......

I'm going to defend my position by saying the Supreme Court made the right decision, and women should not have to give birth against their will.

and I am going to defend mine by pointing out that unborn children should not be killed against theirs.........

A zygote/fetus doesn't have a will of its own, because that would require conscious and unconscious reasoning. In that case, you could then ask the fetus if it wants to be born into a life of abuse and poverty. (sarcasm)

would you rather have died than experienced the abuse you suffered as a child?......

Since my parents were Middle Class and not abusive, no.

but how did you know that when you were a fetus?.......shouldn't you have wanted to die just because of the possibility?......after all, that is what you are proposing for the unborn you are killing today.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

No, murder is a crime; abortion is not. Therefore, abortion is not murder.

someday society will realize it was and treat us the same way we treat the slave owners of the south and the Nazis who built the concentration camps........

 

[PostmodernProph]

. I will also point out that these children were adopted, so there goes your theory that adoption is always the best answer.

so again, it isn't the unwanted children who are at risk.......its the wanted ones.........

 

[Carla_Danger]

Only a nutty religious extremist would push abstinence as a form of birth control.

and only a bloodthirsty barbarian would promote the killing of unborn children as a form of birth control........

You are far worse than a bloodthirsty barbarian because a fetus feels no pain. Keep promoting your gross neglect, including long term mental and physical abuse and even torture. These children certainly felt the pain.

Couple charged after 3-year-old boy hung up by feet systematically tortured and beaten to death fox13now.com

Tulsa Couple Arrested For Abusing 8-Year-Old Daughter - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa OK - News Weather Video and Sports - KOTV.com

TASWELL, IN (WAVE) – An extremely disturbing case of child abuse is unfolding in Crawford County. A couple is arrested and accused of 44 felonies against four children.

WAVE 3 News has learned these four children were in the foster care system. We've learned the four victims at one time were foster children of Bernie and Melissa Harmon until they legally adopted them.

Couple arrested for sexual abuse neglect of children - wave3.com-Louisville News Weather Sports

 

[Faun]

No, murder is a crime; abortion is not. Therefore, abortion is not murder.

someday society will realize it was and treat us the same way we treat the slave owners of the south and the Nazis who built the concentration camps........

Yeah, sure. Don't hold your breathe.

 

[Carla_Danger]

. I will also point out that these children were adopted, so there goes your theory that adoption is always the best answer.

so again, it isn't the unwanted children who are at risk.......its the wanted ones.........

They were unwanted by their biological parents, that's the point. I refuse to participate any longer in your extreme knuckle dragging ignorance. You're going to have to up your game.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Not necessarily

Prior to planned parenthood, women in our society would have 10-12 children in their lifetime
Now it is down to 2-3
Planned Parenthood wants families to be able to control how many children they can afford

oh lord, don't be an idiot......that didn't change because of planned parenthood, that changed because we moved from an agricultural to an industrial society.......

Are you serious?

Do you think women in cities did not get pregnant? They were not abstaining you know

omigorsh, I was right.......you really ARE a fucking idiot.........

Evidently you live in your own world where you are king

and evidently you no regard for reality, fact or anything except your own ridiculous opinions.....my parents generation grew up in an agricultural society....one from a family of ten, the other of eight.....they had four children......all of us had families of two or three......none of that had anything to do with PP, which wasn't even in existence when my parents were raising us....the same pattern is true for the majority of American society.....

the logical fallacy that you fell foul of is to assume that because something happened at the same time, it was the cause.......unfortunately, you compounded that fallacy by not realizing they didn't even happen at the same time.........

Thank Gawd for the sexual revolution of the 60's, which got us legal birth control, enabling women to control the size of their family.

Unfortunately Christian nutters want to cut the funding for PP, who offers affordable birth control to people who really need it.

 

[rightwinger]

Not necessarily

Prior to planned parenthood, women in our society would have 10-12 children in their lifetime
Now it is down to 2-3
Planned Parenthood wants families to be able to control how many children they can afford

oh lord, don't be an idiot......that didn't change because of planned parenthood, that changed because we moved from an agricultural to an industrial society.......

Are you serious?

Do you think women in cities did not get pregnant? They were not abstaining you know

omigorsh, I was right.......you really ARE a fucking idiot.........

Evidently you live in your own world where you are king

and evidently you no regard for reality, fact or anything except your own ridiculous opinions.....my parents generation grew up in an agricultural society....one from a family of ten, the other of eight.....they had four children......all of us had families of two or three......none of that had anything to do with PP, which wasn't even in existence when my parents were raising us....the same pattern is true for the majority of American society.....

the logical fallacy that you fell foul of is to assume that because something happened at the same time, it was the cause.......unfortunately, you compounded that fallacy by not realizing they didn't even happen at the same time.........

I have done genealogical research on my family back to the 1830s. They lived in the cities and had between 9-12 children. Many did not reach adulthood.
Women had children from the time they got married at 17 into their 40s. Provided they did not die in childbirth. This was true for both urban and rural families. Given the lack of birth control, why wouldn't it be?
At the turn of the 20th century, you were not even allowed to discuss family planning...it was a sin

 

[RKMBrown]

typical....you have no moral standing to support the 99% of unborn child killings that don't involve rape or incest, so you only talk about the 1%.....fine, I waive any objection to abortions in the case of rape or incest.......now how are you going to defend your position?.......

I'm going to defend my position by saying the Supreme Court made the right decision, and women should not have to give birth against their will.

and I am going to defend mine by pointing out that unborn children should not be killed against theirs.........

A zygote/fetus doesn't have a will of its own, because that would require conscious and unconscious reasoning. In that case, you could then ask the fetus if it wants to be born into a life of abuse and poverty.

A person that is sleeping doesn't have a will of its own, because that would require conscious and unconscious reasoning. In that case, you could then ask the sleeping person if it wants to remain in a life of abuse and poverty. So it should be legal to kill people who are in poverty or abuse while they are sleeping, right?

Except that you are completely ignoring the Court in Roe carefully considered, and rejected, the State's argument "that the fetus is a `person' within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment."


Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pa. v. Casey 505 U.S. 833 1992

Apparently you need to practice your reading skills better.

 

[RKMBrown]

Murdering the baby shouldn't be a choice in the first place. You are morally bankrupt.

It is not murder anywhere in the world.

Keep telling yourself that, creep.

I don't have to.
Abortion is not prosecuted as murder

so your point isn't that its not murder.....your point is it isn't prosecuted......

No, murder is a crime; abortion is not. Therefore, abortion is not murder.

Incorrect, abortion against the will of the mother is, murder.

 

[TSJohnson]

Incorrect, abortion against the will of the mother is, murder.

No. A fetus is not a person. You can only murder people. Ergo, you cannot murder a fetus. It would be assault against the mother if anything.

 

[RKMBrown]

Incorrect, abortion against the will of the mother is, murder.

No. A fetus is not a person. You can only murder people. Ergo, you cannot murder a fetus. It would be assault against the mother if anything.

Wrong.
Fetal Homicide State Laws

 

[TSJohnson]

Fetal Homicide State Laws[/URL]

"... the Unborn Victim of Violence Act." Unborn Victim. Just let that sink in. This is how insane these people are. They think you can be a victim before you're even fucking born. Before you even exist. That these fucking idiots - these fascists - are in office doesn't make their beliefs any more valid. All it means is that this country is in deep shit and its liberals need to unite for once before the enemies of human rights finish destroying it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Incorrect, abortion against the will of the mother is, murder.

No. A fetus is not a person. You can only murder people. Ergo, you cannot murder a fetus. It would be assault against the mother if anything.

Wrong.
Fetal Homicide State Laws

Wrong.

“Many such feticide laws are not, as drafted, incompatible with a woman’s choice to terminate a pregnancy. Indeed, the majority of states that have passed feticide laws expressly exempt abortion and do not punish a pregnant woman’s actions. As such, these laws have, in the past, been welcomed by pro-choice activists who view them as consistent with protecting a mother’s relationship with a wanted pregnancy.”

Feticide Laws Advance Personhood Punish Pregnant Women

 

[Faun]

Incorrect, abortion against the will of the mother is, murder.

No. A fetus is not a person. You can only murder people. Ergo, you cannot murder a fetus. It would be assault against the mother if anything.

No, he's right. Killing a fetus against the will of the mother is indeed murder. Here's a case where a man was charged with 1st degree murder for such an offense (though he took a plea bargain for a lesser offense)....

Welden gets nearly 14 years in Tampa abortion pill case Tampa Bay Times

That said, abortion by the will of the mother is not murder.

 

[TSJohnson]

No, he's right. Killing a fetus against the will of the mother is indeed murder. Here's a case where a man was charged with 1st degree murder for such an offense (though he took a plea bargain for a lesser offense)....

Welden gets nearly 14 years in Tampa abortion pill case Tampa Bay Times

That said, abortion by the will of the mother is not murder.

A fetus does not legally have personhood. You cannot murder something lacking personhood. It's arguable whether killing is even accurate, as the very question of fetal life is still up in the air. We simply don't know exactly when life begins. It's not up for me, or you, or the "mother" to decide. It's up to science and the law. Let him serve his time for charges of product tampering and conspiracy to commit mail fraud. Don't try to convict him for breaking an unconstitutional law.

 

[Faun]

No, he's right. Killing a fetus against the will of the mother is indeed murder. Here's a case where a man was charged with 1st degree murder for such an offense (though he took a plea bargain for a lesser offense)....

Welden gets nearly 14 years in Tampa abortion pill case Tampa Bay Times

That said, abortion by the will of the mother is not murder.

A fetus does not legally have personhood. You cannot murder something lacking personhood. It's arguable whether killing is even accurate, as the very question of fetal life is still up in the air. We simply don't know exactly when life begins. It's not up for me, or you, or the "mother" to decide. It's up to science and the law. Let him serve his time for charges of product tampering and conspiracy to commit mail fraud. Don't try to convict him for breaking an unconstitutional law.

Like it or not, it's the law. I just showed a case where someone was facing life in prison for first degree murder.