Personal responsibility vs. Public safety net

[Ravi]

yeah punk - go right ahead and take others to task for their circumstances while you welsh on what you owe so everyone else can pick up the tab for you.

What a hypocrite.

Nodog- when a hospital takes an uninsured patient- they jack the prices up on them. I paid exactly what they would have billed insurance for. How is it that this somehow effected you? Would you have been better served if I had insurance that paid the 30k? Fucking fat, stupid lesbians...

Actually, that isn't legal...you can't charge different people different prices for the same product.

But I'm glad mani has a new friend that calls people fat, stupid lesbians.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Nodog- when a hospital takes an uninsured patient- they jack the prices up on them.

Exactly the opposite is true. Insured patients pay more - because THEY are the ones who have to cover the deadbeats like you.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

People that do have insurance pay out of pocket what ever the insurance doesn't pay. Any way you look at it...

ThePukingPunk is a fraud.

Another dipshit. Actually- the hospital billed me close to 13k that they would have been paid about 8k through insurance- because that is what they would have charged insurance, and what they and the insurance companies have agreed such service is worth. You guys are too phuckin dumb to see past your noses.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

yeah punk - go right ahead and take others to task for their circumstances while you welsh on what you owe so everyone else can pick up the tab for you.

What a hypocrite.

Nodog- when a hospital takes an uninsured patient- they jack the prices up on them. I paid exactly what they would have billed insurance for. How is it that this somehow effected you? Would you have been better served if I had insurance that paid the 30k? Fucking fat, stupid lesbians...

Actually, that isn't legal...you can't charge different people different prices for the same product.

But I'm glad mani has a new friend that calls people fat, stupid lesbians.

You clearly have no idea how hospital billing works. Insurance is charged one rate, non-insured individuals are charged another. A widespread, common practice.

 

[Ravi]

Nodog- when a hospital takes an uninsured patient- they jack the prices up on them. I paid exactly what they would have billed insurance for. How is it that this somehow effected you? Would you have been better served if I had insurance that paid the 30k? Fucking fat, stupid lesbians...

Actually, that isn't legal...you can't charge different people different prices for the same product.

But I'm glad mani has a new friend that calls people fat, stupid lesbians.

You clearly have no idea how hospital billing works. Insurance is charged one rate, non-insured individuals are charged another. A widespread, common practice.

Yep...the uninsured aren't forced to pay off their debts...you are proof of that. Entitlement junky.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Nodog- when a hospital takes an uninsured patient- they jack the prices up on them.

Exactly the opposite is true. Insured patients pay more - because THEY are the ones who have to cover the deadbeats like you.

That is exactly right. However- you cannot escape the fact that I paid what my insurance would have paid. Which means you were not effected one bit. But keep spewin your venom. Yer still a fat, angry, parasitic lesbian, and Im still a happily matrried man with good negotiating skills,.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I think it's time to remind many people here that these two ideals conflict, and at the margin, they are mutually exclusive.

wrong. at the margin? Personal responsibility and a safety net are not ideas in conflict when viewed in terms of real life scenarios. Of course in the world of circle-jerkdom and philosophy where academic and laboratory arguments exist in vacuums, it is possible the ideas are in conflict depending on how one represents them. In real life, this is not necessarilly so.

People on social security who are either responsible or irresponsible participate in the safety net program.

That is, any action that beefs up the public safety net, has a necessarily negative impact on personal responsibility and any action that weakens the safety net has a positive impact on personal responsibility. It's fundamental human nature. If you cast a wider safety net, more people will jump into it.

The amount of people who would jump in is one question. The idea that everyone would be covered in a social program negates the idea of anyone jumping in for a variety of reasons.

Your broad brush approach to a generalized view of what constitutes a safety net and the abscence of what exactky you mean by 'personal resposibility' leaves much to be desired (love that cliche).

Some people advocate eliminating the safety net completely. This would surely force more people, for better or worse, to be responsible for their own needs.

People who advocate such an approach ignore the context of how and why safety nets exist or they ignore and cherry pick data on why the programs are no longer
(in their usually biased and hostlie views) relevant.

Some people advocate for a public safety net that completely eliminates hardship, regardless of one's personal choices.

name these people if you can? You may need only one hand or foot to do the math.

I prefer somewhere in between, but I certainly do not fool myself into thinking you can have the best of both.


Discuss.

Let's discuss: Is mani as big an idiot as he plays on the internet(s)?

I don't think so, but his shadiow casts a big---ahem---net.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Actually, that isn't legal...you can't charge different people different prices for the same product.

But I'm glad mani has a new friend that calls people fat, stupid lesbians.

You clearly have no idea how hospital billing works. Insurance is charged one rate, non-insured individuals are charged another. A widespread, common practice.

Yep...the uninsured aren't forced to pay off their debts...you are proof of that. Entitlement junky.

If I had not paid off my debt you would think it would show up on my credit report as a charge-off....

sorry. I paid- and all sides were happy. The medical providers made a handsome profit off of me, unlike most uninsured patients....

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

medical providers do not make a handsome profit off of most uninsured patients....

really? do you have any data to back up this assertion, or is it opinion masquerading as fact?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Nodog- when a hospital takes an uninsured patient- they jack the prices up on them.

Exactly the opposite is true. Insured patients pay more - because THEY are the ones who have to cover the deadbeats like you.

That is exactly right. However- you cannot escape the fact that I paid what my insurance would have paid. Which means you were not effected one bit. But keep spewin your venom. Yer still a fat, angry, parasitic lesbian, and Im still a happily matrried man with good negotiating skills,.

Your two statements (bolded here) are mutually exclusive.

Once again you are twisting in the wind trying to defend a point that has already been lost - whether you realize it or not. We covered what you didn't - whether you understand or not.

And since I'm a man, I don't see the whole lesbian thing. But it is every bit as accurate as your other "points."

 

[manifold]

Healthcare providers most certainly DO charge different prices for the same services. And in my experience, they charge the uninsured the most.

I guess some people here either never looked at a medical bill or are too stupid to comprehend what is right there in front of their eyes. They list what the product/procedure/product costs and beside it they list what is "allowable" for this based on their pre-negotiated rates with the insurance provider. And 100% of the time that "allowable" amount is less and represents the amount your insurance actually pays. The uninsured patient doesn't have a pre-negotiated "allowable" figure to fall back on. So the unisured patient gets charged the full amount.

To see a couple of ignorant whores try to vilify someone for negotiating an out-of-pocket price similar to the "allowable" amount says a lot more about them than their chosen target.

 

[Vel]

And stuck the rest of us with the bill - wonder where they made up the $20,000 this guy stiffed 'em for? Yup, jacked up the price for the rest of us who DO pay our way.

How much of my medical bill did you have to pay?

We ALL covered it for you - by paying higher prices. There's no such thing as a free lunch. You just passed the check to everyone else.
And then go around trying to preach "personal responsibility."

What a hypocrite.

Actually, you're wrong. Hospitals charge a much higher rate to those without insurance as a way to make up for what they lose to Medicare, Medicaid and deals with insurance companies. Even if he only paid $30K of the original $50K billed charges, he still payed a greater amount than an insurance company would have.

On average, HMOs pay 12 percent above what Medicare pays, according to the MedPAC Commission. But the uninsured receive artificially inflated bills that can be 200 to 1,100 percent more than what Medicare or insured patients pay.

Table 2: How Much Do Hospitals Charge Their Patients?
O'Connor Hospital
San Jose, CA St. Louise Regional (Catholic)
West Gilroy, CA Palm Beach Gardens Community Hospital
(Tenet Healthcare)
Palm Beach Gardens, CA
Operating Expense $1,631.42 $1,376.00 $1,501.37
Collected from Managed Care $1,940.00 $1,773.00 $1,774.41
Billed the Uninsured $5,951.00 $5,508.00 $7,414.08
Cost-to-Charge Ratio .258 .289 .205
Collection Rate from the Uninsured 97% 96% 32%


Investigative Report: Overcharging the Uninsured--Part 1 - by Randy Suttles and Merrill Matthews, Jr., PhD. - Health Care News

( the chart is available at the link )

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Exactly the opposite is true. Insured patients pay more - because THEY are the ones who have to cover the deadbeats like you.

That is exactly right. However- you cannot escape the fact that I paid what my insurance would have paid. Which means you were not effected one bit. But keep spewin your venom. Yer still a fat, angry, parasitic lesbian, and Im still a happily matrried man with good negotiating skills,.

Your two statements (bolded here) are mutually exclusive.

Once again you are twisting in the wind trying to defend a point that has already been lost - whether you realize it or not. We covered what you didn't - whether you understand or not.

And since I'm a man, I don't see the whole lesbian thing. But it is every bit as accurate as your other "points."

You covered absolutely nothing. And while you may want to be a man, and you express those desires in your haircut and dress, you are still a woman, albeit a visually offensive one.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

How much of my medical bill did you have to pay?

We ALL covered it for you - by paying higher prices. There's no such thing as a free lunch. You just passed the check to everyone else.
And then go around trying to preach "personal responsibility."

What a hypocrite.

Actually, you're wrong. Hospitals charge a much higher rate to those without insurance as a way to make up for what they lose to Medicare, Medicaid and deals with insurance companies. Even if he only paid $30K of the original $50K billed charges, he still payed a greater amount than an insurance company would have.

On average, HMOs pay 12 percent above what Medicare pays, according to the MedPAC Commission. But the uninsured receive artificially inflated bills that can be 200 to 1,100 percent more than what Medicare or insured patients pay.

Table 2: How Much Do Hospitals Charge Their Patients?
O'Connor Hospital
San Jose, CA St. Louise Regional (Catholic)
West Gilroy, CA Palm Beach Gardens Community Hospital
(Tenet Healthcare)
Palm Beach Gardens, CA
Operating Expense $1,631.42 $1,376.00 $1,501.37
Collected from Managed Care $1,940.00 $1,773.00 $1,774.41
Billed the Uninsured $5,951.00 $5,508.00 $7,414.08
Cost-to-Charge Ratio .258 .289 .205
Collection Rate from the Uninsured 97% 96% 32%


Investigative Report: Overcharging the Uninsured--Part 1 - by Randy Suttles and Merrill Matthews, Jr., PhD. - Health Care News

( the chart is available at the link )

its nice to see there are a couple of posters that use their brain cells to guide their ideas as opposed to their feelings.

 

[Ravi]

It has been my experience that my doctors charge what ever they please...and the insurance company pays what they say they will pay...and I pay the rest.

Friends that are stuck with HMOs are routinely denied coverage for certain things and must pay them out of pocket or else go without.

 

[manifold]

Hey Dev,


Was all that circular nonsense supposed to pass for some sort of rebuttal or something?

For those who missed it, or perhaps intentionally and wisely scrolled past it, the substance of Dev's diatribe was... you're wrong, because I say so.

How can anyone argue with that?

 

[Ravi]

That is exactly right. However- you cannot escape the fact that I paid what my insurance would have paid. Which means you were not effected one bit. But keep spewin your venom. Yer still a fat, angry, parasitic lesbian, and Im still a happily matrried man with good negotiating skills,.

Your two statements (bolded here) are mutually exclusive.

Once again you are twisting in the wind trying to defend a point that has already been lost - whether you realize it or not. We covered what you didn't - whether you understand or not.

And since I'm a man, I don't see the whole lesbian thing. But it is every bit as accurate as your other "points."

You covered absolutely nothing. And while you may want to be a man, and you express those desires in your haircut and dress, you are still a woman, albeit a visually offensive one.

You don't like women, how shocked I am. Are you pubic come back to life?

 

[manifold]

Quick, better neg-rep him Ravs.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

It has been my experience that my doctors charge what ever they please...and the insurance company pays what they say they will pay...and I pay the rest.

Friends that are stuck with HMOs are routinely denied coverage for certain things and must pay them out of pocket or else go without.

Your understanding of your experience with doctors in no way reflects the reality of your experiences.

 

[ThePickledPunk]

Your two statements (bolded here) are mutually exclusive.

Once again you are twisting in the wind trying to defend a point that has already been lost - whether you realize it or not. We covered what you didn't - whether you understand or not.

And since I'm a man, I don't see the whole lesbian thing. But it is every bit as accurate as your other "points."

You covered absolutely nothing. And while you may want to be a man, and you express those desires in your haircut and dress, you are still a woman, albeit a visually offensive one.

You don't like women, how shocked I am. Are you pubic come back to life?

Most women I like. Fat, angry lesbians like Nodog, while being fairly rare, are pretty disgusting to me.