Pastor arrested for holding home Bible study

[pinqy]

Personally, I want to see more of the actual evidence the city has from their 90 minute search of his property to see if they actually found evidence he was holding services inside the rec room, and not using it for people to get together after services to watch moves and play Pinochle.

There's no question that the man is running a church. The issue is if the city has the right to equate his church with public or commercial assemblies.

There's no "equating," it is a church, and thus subject to rules and regulations for assemblies.

As a private or non-commercial church, on residential property, the answer is no.

Centuries of caselaw disagree with you.

Legitimately, to the city, it's just a bible study or a book club.

Please cite the relevant laws you're claiming.

The government has no constitutional or moral right to apply religious tests to this man's private activities.

It's not. It's applying standard zoning laws. He declared it a tax exempt church, and so no longer private activities.

The city's claim that there's safety issues is also absurd. It's a one-room building. Safety doesn't require sprinklers. If there's a fire, everyone will see it right away and everyone will be able to safely leave through one of the two doors. It's not like people could get trapped inside because of a fire.

then change the laws. As the laws stand, they apply to any public assembly building.

 

[Inthemiddle]

This is pathetic, and proof that there is no God. Anyone who would outright lie, as to say that he was arrested for holding a bible study, would already have been struck down by lightning if there was a God. He was holding a regular group gathering without the proper permits and outside of zoning regulations. Perhaps there's an argument that the zoning regulations unconstitutionally infringe upon these people's right to assemble. But I'd doubt it, as simple permit requirements are not an infringement when enforced uniformly (which is why permits for protesting are constitutionally permissible).

 

[freedombecki]

Excellent! If us libs had our way, religion would be made illegal.

You would?

Pastor Michael Salman arrested for Bible study
Pastor Michael Salman and his family live on about 4 ½ acres in the Phoenix area. Salman is an ordained minister who holds a number of biblical degrees, but since 2005, they have chosen to gather like the biblical church, in homes. Credits

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Source

I recommend a review of the Bill of Rights in the City of Phoenix, AZ by its legal department as to its unique ordinances that seem to me to be not in accordance with the United States Constitution. I'm truly shocked.

 

[Skull Pilot]

From the OP link:
"It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire."

Should religion be exempt from zoning and other laws?
Seems like that would be against the constitution.

I had 30 people over for a company picnic. i have 5 acres and a large parking lot I suppose the town should have shut me down because I didn't have a permit.

 

[uscitizen]

From the OP link:
"It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire."

Should religion be exempt from zoning and other laws?
Seems like that would be against the constitution.

I had 30 people over for a company picnic. i have 5 acres and a large parking lot I suppose the town should have shut me down because I didn't have a permit.

If you do it on a repeated schedule , yes.
If they have zoning laws in that area.

I expect that this confrontation had been going on for some time for them to actually arrest the guy.
I wonder how many zoning violations the guy had gotten?

 

[Ravi]

From the OP link:
"It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire."

Should religion be exempt from zoning and other laws?
Seems like that would be against the constitution.

I had 30 people over for a company picnic. i have 5 acres and a large parking lot I suppose the town should have shut me down because I didn't have a permit.

Are you classified as a church and are you tax exempt because of it, like the guy in the article?

 

[Againsheila]

From the OP link:
"It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire."

Should religion be exempt from zoning and other laws?
Seems like that would be against the constitution.

I had 30 people over for a company picnic. i have 5 acres and a large parking lot I suppose the town should have shut me down because I didn't have a permit.

Are you classified as a church and are you tax exempt because of it, like the guy in the article?

If he's classified as a church, they can't do anything to him....that's why we couldn't stop the Mega church.

 

[Ravi]

I had 30 people over for a company picnic. i have 5 acres and a large parking lot I suppose the town should have shut me down because I didn't have a permit.

Are you classified as a church and are you tax exempt because of it, like the guy in the article?

If he's classified as a church, they can't do anything to him....that's why we couldn't stop the Mega church.

I don't know who the Mega church is but I'm sure they were also required to get permits.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Perhaps that's why I - and the good pastor - live in conservative Arizona, rather than liberal-run Louisiana: because we'd like at least a shot at having our civil liberties respected.

Now please say something that's relevant to the story, because Baton Rouge ain't it.

Liberal run Louisiana?

What are you, a fucking moron?


The governor - Republican.

The Louisiana House and Senate - Republican

6 of 7 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives - Republican

1 of 2 seats in the U.S. Senate - Republican

First of all, you ignorant cow, Louisiana didn't have a single Republican governor from 1877 until 1980. Since then, 4 of their 8 governors have been Democrats, so don't give me that bullshit about how they're miraculously a "conservative" state just because they happen to have recently started electing people with R's after their names occasionally. That's like saying Massachusetts was a red state because Romney was governor there once.

Are you like 12 years old? There used to be conservative Democrats, you idiot. Ask your parents about them. The last governor of Louisiana that might be described as "liberal" had the name Long.

Not to mention you said it was run by liberals, not that it used to be run by liberals. You're moving the goal post.

And let me remind you that we ALL got to see how "conservative" the policies and people running Louisiana were during Hurricane Katrina. You may have tried to blame them on everyone else, the way leftists always do, but trust me that no one in the nation was buying your victim routine that time.

We already know you don't care if Democrats drown, you don't have to bring it up again. Yes, New Orleans is pre-dominantly Democrat. Its located in a conservative, Republican voting state. The fact that ALL of our Congressional seats are Republican except the district which contains most of NEw Orleans should have told you this.

Furthermore, as far as I can tell, Baton Rouge specifically seems to have a city council that's dominated by Democrats.

Sure, if you call a 50/50 Republican/Democrat split "dominated" by Democrats! I supposed by "as far as I can tell" you really meant "as far as I can make-up with doing no research whatsoever because that takes work" My god you are LAZY!

FACT: Your state's been riddled with liberal and Democrat bullshit since the Civil War, and it's a little late now to elect Republicans to fix it and then blame all the problems on them.

FACT: You're a complete ignoramous on my state's political history, and you seem to think all Democrats have always been liberals since the Civil war, which anyone who has studied any political history at all would know is false.

You really are an exceptionally stupid person.

 

[Skull Pilot]

From the OP link:
"It came down to zoning and proper permitting. Anytime you are holding a gathering of people continuously as he does, we have concerns about people being able to exit the facility properly in case there is a fire."

Should religion be exempt from zoning and other laws?
Seems like that would be against the constitution.

I had 30 people over for a company picnic. i have 5 acres and a large parking lot I suppose the town should have shut me down because I didn't have a permit.

Are you classified as a church and are you tax exempt because of it, like the guy in the article?

Why does that matter?

If I want to have 20 people over every Saturday for dinner it's no one's business but mine.

If someone wants to have what amounts to a book club meeting every week so the fuck what?

Just another example of the government motto

"There's no good reason for it, it's just our policy"

 

[Ravi]

I had 30 people over for a company picnic. i have 5 acres and a large parking lot I suppose the town should have shut me down because I didn't have a permit.

Are you classified as a church and are you tax exempt because of it, like the guy in the article?

Why does that matter?

If I want to have 20 people over every Saturday for dinner it's no one's business but mine.

If someone wants to have what amounts to a book club meeting every week so the fuck what?

Just another example of the government motto

"There's no good reason for it, it's just our policy"

You don't get a tax exemption for a book club meeting or Saturday dinner.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Are you classified as a church and are you tax exempt because of it, like the guy in the article?

Why does that matter?

If I want to have 20 people over every Saturday for dinner it's no one's business but mine.

If someone wants to have what amounts to a book club meeting every week so the fuck what?

Just another example of the government motto

"There's no good reason for it, it's just our policy"

You don't get a tax exemption for a book club meeting or Saturday dinner.

What does tax status have to do with zoning?

Tax status was not mentioned as a reason to arrest a guy for such a ridiculous reason.

 

[Ariux]

You don't get a tax exemption for a book club meeting or Saturday dinner.

federal taxes and building codes have nothing to do with each other.

This guy also isn't getting any tax breaks.

 

[Ravi]

Why does that matter?

If I want to have 20 people over every Saturday for dinner it's no one's business but mine.

If someone wants to have what amounts to a book club meeting every week so the fuck what?

Just another example of the government motto

"There's no good reason for it, it's just our policy"

You don't get a tax exemption for a book club meeting or Saturday dinner.

What does tax status have to do with zoning?

Tax status was not mentioned as a reason to arrest a guy for such a ridiculous reason.

He filed and got approved of as a church. He then refused to apply for the permit to operate his church. He took the tax exemption but refused to apply for the permit.

And you cheer him on.

I don't get it.

 

[Ravi]

You don't get a tax exemption for a book club meeting or Saturday dinner.

federal taxes and building codes have nothing to do with each other.

This guy also isn't getting any tax breaks.

Property tax, dope.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You don't get a tax exemption for a book club meeting or Saturday dinner.

What does tax status have to do with zoning?

Tax status was not mentioned as a reason to arrest a guy for such a ridiculous reason.

He filed and got approved of as a church. He then refused to apply for the permit to operate his church. He took the tax exemption but refused to apply for the permit.

And you cheer him on.

I don't get it.

Cheering him on really?

It's no one's business if the guy wants to have people over to his house. Period.

I don't give a shit what the reason is.

And I don't think religious businesses should be tax exempt but that's another thread.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You don't get a tax exemption for a book club meeting or Saturday dinner.

What does tax status have to do with zoning?

Tax status was not mentioned as a reason to arrest a guy for such a ridiculous reason.

He filed and got approved of as a church. He then refused to apply for the permit to operate his church. He took the tax exemption but refused to apply for the permit.

And you cheer him on.

I don't get it.

The city wanted him to pay for upgrades to the road in front of his house if he built a church, so he opted not to actually build a church. Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[Amelia]

What does tax status have to do with zoning?

Tax status was not mentioned as a reason to arrest a guy for such a ridiculous reason.

He filed and got approved of as a church. He then refused to apply for the permit to operate his church. He took the tax exemption but refused to apply for the permit.

And you cheer him on.

I don't get it.

Cheering him on really?

It's no one's business if the guy wants to have people over to his house. Period.

I don't give a shit what the reason is.

And I don't think religious businesses should be tax exempt but that's another thread.

In 2007, that was an argument he could make. Sounds like back then he was being hassled for having 20 people over for gatherings in his living room.

If/when he applied for church status (sounds like that was 2008) he fell under the city's rules for churches, even if he didn't before.


And if as has been suggested he lied about his gatherings being 15-20 people and if he has really been hosting meetings of 80 complete with collection plate, well then he is doing a disservice to religious people who act in good faith and try to conduct their activities in an honest and aboveboard manner.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I don't particularly like the arrest but rules are rules and if we, as individuals, start picking out the one we will obey and the one we don't it is called anarchy. We are close now if things don't change

Yep, that prerogative rests solely with our current POTUS...

 

[Amelia]

I don't particularly like the arrest but rules are rules and if we, as individuals, start picking out the one we will obey and the one we don't it is called anarchy. We are close now if things don't change

Yep, that prerogative rests solely with our current POTUS...

Oh snap