Palin : Obama will create "Death Panel" !!!!!!

[PoliticalChic]

Actually it is quite valid - the death panel description is apt.

This "end of life consultation" stated to be optional, when combined with the other components of the proposed health care plan, could easily result in just what the so-called fear mongers are warning about - a declaration by the government that your life has reached the point of expendability.

Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure.
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill — a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill — YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED!
Pg 42 of HC Bill — The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you.
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill — HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Pg 58 HC Bill — Government will have real-time access to individual's finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for election funds transfer.
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill — Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example — Translation for illegal aliens.
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill — Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members — your Health care WILL be rationed.
PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill — Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Government Monopoly.
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill — Doctors/ AMA — The Government will tell YOU what you can earn.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records.
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC — "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that.
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill — Doctors — doesn't matter what specialty — will all be paid the same.
PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor's time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.
Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion — Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.
Pg 354 Sec 1177 — Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization. (Like ACORN?)

It is almost criminal to spread lies.
This claim has been checked by independent sources including PolitiFact and others.

This is fear mongering. It is sick. It is disgusting. It is not necessary.

Debate the program on its merits not on lies. Will a public plan not allow the private plans to compete. Will that end up with a single payer plan. What would happen with a single payer plan.

Nut cases like you are turning a very serious issue into a circus. The fear mongering lies are stifling the debate on the real issues.

Please correct those items which you find untrue, as this will allow adjudication.

Should you be unable to do same, it will indicate that you are using a figure of speech in place of knowledge.

 

[PoliticalChic]

It is almost criminal to spread lies.
This claim has been checked by independent sources including PolitiFact and others.

This is fear mongering. It is sick. It is disgusting. It is not necessary.

Debate the program on its merits not on lies. Will a public plan not allow the private plans to compete. Will that end up with a single payer plan. What would happen with a single payer plan.

Nut cases like you are turning a very serious issue into a circus. The fear mongering lies are stifling the debate on the real issues.

Here's the deal,, all you can do is say this is lies, but when asked you cannot answer the questions as to what is truth.. you are a puppet on a string. so you have zero credibility and even less brains! Kerry On!

I am not going to take the word of an advocate of either side. I have taken the time to research an unbiast source like Politifact and others.

You should do the same. Those who use fear mongering to make their case, actually fear the truth.

Don't fear the truth, search for the truth.

Always good to find sources, but remember that Politifact is a service of the St. Petersburg Sun-Times, which is liberal.

I have used the Sun-Times, but I try to check their info. Try to do the same.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's so obvious: Americans Libruls need to move to Europe

 

[PoliticalChic]

Don't just criticize Obama's plan give an alternative.

1. Tort Reform:
While malpractice litigation accounts for only about 0.6 percent of U.S. health care costs, the fear of being sued causes U.S. doctors to order more tests than their Canadian counterparts. So-called defensive medicine increases health care costs by up to 9 percent, Medicare's administrator told Congress in 2005. "
Canada keeps malpractice cost in check - St. Petersburg Times

Now, compare those with these:
"Also, it’s worth noting that while these figures sound like a lot of money — and few would dispute the fact that health insurance company CEOs make healthy salaries — these numbers represent a very small fraction of total health care spending in the U.S. In 2007, national health care expenditures totaled $2.2 trillion. Health insurance profits of nearly $13 billion make up 0.6 percent of that. CEO compensation is a mere 0.005 percent of total spending."
FactCheck.org: Pushing for a Public Plan

So my conclusion is that the cost of malpractice suits is equal to the profit of the entire industry.

This may be significant of and by itself, but when we look at the costs of defensive medicine, it alone adds to the costs of healthcare by a factor 15!!!


2. Reform of Insurance Policy Mandates:

Scrap all city, state, federal mandates for healthcare insurance policies. When a statute says policies must “cover mammograms of everyone 35 and over,’ how is this fair for a construction company with all male employees? What about ‘Podiatry,’ or ‘sexual reorientation surgery/? Allow insurance companies to write policies covering exactly what the consumer asks for:
Take two very different states: Wisconsin and New York. In Wisconsin, a family can buy a health-insurance plan for as little as $3,000 a year. The price for a basic family plan in the Empire State: $12,000. The stark difference has nothing to do with each state’s health sector as a share of its economy (14.8 percent in Wisconsin as of 2004, the most recent year for which data are available, and 13.9 percent in New York). Rather, the difference has to do with how each state’s insurance pools are regulated. In New York State, politicians have tried to run the health-insurance system from Albany, forcing insurers to deliver complex Cadillac plans to every subscriber for political reasons, driving up costs. Wisconsin’s insurers are far freer to sell plans at prices consumers want.
The gulf in insurance-premium prices among American states is a sign that too much government intervention—not too little—is what’s distorting prices from one market to the next. The key to reducing health-care costs for patients, then, is to promote competition, not to dictate insurance requirements from on high. Unfortunately, a government-run insurance plan is the core of ObamaCare.
Bigger Is Healthier by David Gratzer, City Journal 22 July 2009
a. NJ has some 68-69 mandates including in vitro fertilization, which adds some 2-2.5% to the cost of the policy

3.. Doctors currently have no ability to re-price or re-package their services that way every other professional does. Medicare dictates what it pays for and what it won’t pay for, and the final price. Because of this there are no telephone consultations paid for, and the same for e-mails, normal in every other profession.
Most doctors don’t digitize records, thus they cannot use software that allows electronic prescription, and make it easier to detect drug interactions or dosage mistakes. Again, Medicare doesn’t pay for it.

4. Another free market idea aimed at better quality is have warranties for surgery as we do for cars. 17% of Medicare patients who enter a hospital re-enter within 30 days because of a problem connected to the original surgery. The result is that a hospital makes money on its mistakes!

5. Walk-in clinics are growing around the country, where a registered nurse sits at a computer, the patient describes symptoms, the nurse types it in and follows a computerized protocol, the nurse can prescribe electronically, and the patient sees the price in advance

6. To reduce healthcare costs, increase the number of doctors. Obama care would do the opposite. Both tax incentives and support of the tuition of medical school.

7. Identify the 8-10 million who need and are unable to get healthcare, including those with pre-existing conditions,and provide debit cards as is done for food stamps:

"Food debit cards help 27 million people buy food, similar to the number who need help buying health coverage. In all fifty states, debit card technology has transformed the federal food stamp program, which used to be notorious for fraud and abuse. (Only 2 percent of card users are found to be ineligible, according to the General Accounting Office.) Cards are loaded with a specific dollar amount monthly, depending on family size and income, and allow cardholders to shop anywhere. The same strategy could be adapted to provide purchasing power to families who need help buying high-deductible health coverage. It's what all Americans used to buy (see chart 5), and it's all that's needed for families with moderate incomes, who can afford a routine doctor visit. "
Downgrading Health Care

8. Current law provides unlimited tax relief for coverage obtained through an employer but no comparable relief for those who purchase coverage outside their places of work. S. 334 would replace the current tax preference for employer-based health coverage with a new individual-based system. The bill would end the tax exclusion in the personal income tax for employer-based health insurance benefits and instead use a combination of subsidies and tax deductions for health insurance. Ideally, the current employer-based tax structure should be replaced with a fair and equitable universal tax credit. An across-the-board, fixed-dollar health care tax credit, for example, would offer every American federal tax relief for health care.(Wyden-Bennett Bill)

 

[Political Junky]

Pull your head out countess that is what they already have in Europe and what we will have in the US under Obama care in ten years if not sooner. There will be a panel that decides who lives and who dies, who gets treated and who does not. Because in the end the only real way to limit health care costs are to limit access to health care.

We have those panels today ... bureaucrats hired by the insurance companies.

 

[elvis]

the obama scam forces people into it, it is not free choice, it is not free market, it is not free health care, it is not free anything. it is slave care, obama wants to be the slave driver, he wants to crack the whip

Somewhat overdramatic this morning aren't we?

You forgot the part where Obama wants to take your guns

It depends on if it turns out to be single-payer or not.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Has anyone here ever had to deal with healthcare in Europe? Because we have - husband had to live in Italy for a time for business - and he had to deal with the healthcare there because of an injury. Found it to be fantastic, quick, effective, and free. He was supposed to follow up when he got home, and it cost more here even with insurance (and we have very good insurance; we're lucky in that regard). I don't know why people feel the need to trash the healthcare systems in countries where it clearly works. It's like people think there's only one "right" answer.

Terrific. You stay in Europe, I'll stay here

We can make our health care system better. Crusader Frank wants no part of it because it means change. We can look to other countries. We do not have to reinvent the wheel.

Change is necessary and takes strength and wisdom. Those without strength and wisdom resist change.

I do like your choice of movies Frank.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Actually it is quite valid - the death panel description is apt.

This "end of life consultation" stated to be optional, when combined with the other components of the proposed health care plan, could easily result in just what the so-called fear mongers are warning about - a declaration by the government that your life has reached the point of expendability.

Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure.
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill — a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill — YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED!
Pg 42 of HC Bill — The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you.
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill — HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Pg 58 HC Bill — Government will have real-time access to individual's finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for election funds transfer.
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill — Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example — Translation for illegal aliens.
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill — Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members — your Health care WILL be rationed.
PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill — Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Government Monopoly.
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill — Doctors/ AMA — The Government will tell YOU what you can earn.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records.
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC — "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that.
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill — Doctors — doesn't matter what specialty — will all be paid the same.
PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor's time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.
Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion — Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.
Pg 354 Sec 1177 — Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization. (Like ACORN?)

It is almost criminal to spread lies.
This claim has been checked by independent sources including PolitiFact and others.

This is fear mongering. It is sick. It is disgusting. It is not necessary.

Debate the program on its merits not on lies. Will a public plan not allow the private plans to compete. Will that end up with a single payer plan. What would happen with a single payer plan.

Nut cases like you are turning a very serious issue into a circus. The fear mongering lies are stifling the debate on the real issues.

Please correct those items which you find untrue, as this will allow adjudication.

Should you be unable to do same, it will indicate that you are using a figure of speech in place of knowledge.[/QUote

This has already been done item by item earlier in this thread. He has a couple points correct everything else is wrong.

 

[HUGGY]

The idiot christian fascist neo cons won't be happy until the insurance companys have squeezed every red cent out of the population and left them for dead.

I wish for a minute that there was a hell so you pieces of shit would burn for eternity.

I wish THERE WAS A GOD so he could damn you all to hell.

 

[Gudrid]

Has anyone here ever had to deal with healthcare in Europe? Because we have - husband had to live in Italy for a time for business - and he had to deal with the healthcare there because of an injury. Found it to be fantastic, quick, effective, and free. He was supposed to follow up when he got home, and it cost more here even with insurance (and we have very good insurance; we're lucky in that regard). I don't know why people feel the need to trash the healthcare systems in countries where it clearly works. It's like people think there's only one "right" answer.

Terrific. You stay in Europe, I'll stay here

People who fear valid information make me laugh. As do other absurdities.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Yeah the costs ARE too high and going up every year. Our coverage through my wifes job has DOUBLED their premiums and raised their co-pays and RX costs. But yeah I just LOVE my ins........The FACT is health ins costs have risen FAR faster than wages which means that every year that goes by people have less and less disposable income.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

It is almost criminal to spread lies.
This claim has been checked by independent sources including PolitiFact and others.

This is fear mongering. It is sick. It is disgusting. It is not necessary.

Debate the program on its merits not on lies. Will a public plan not allow the private plans to compete. Will that end up with a single payer plan. What would happen with a single payer plan.

Nut cases like you are turning a very serious issue into a circus. The fear mongering lies are stifling the debate on the real issues.

Please correct those items which you find untrue, as this will allow adjudication.



I am pretty sure that someone DID go line by line and dispute these claims.

Should you be unable to do same, it will indicate that you are using a figure of speech in place of knowledge.[/QUote

This has already been done item by item earlier in this thread. He has a couple points correct everything else is wrong.

 

[bodecea]

these posters are going up all over the country by the tens of thousands >>>>>>>>>

..............let me tell you something. Whoever came up with this idea deserves a place on the mall in DC

Indeed they do. The Democrats should give them a medal. Tho, I must confess, I've learned to like it better with the "666" on the forehead.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The fact is most people are NOT happy with their ins coverage........I have been dealing with my health ins co and it isn't fun. Plus what will I do if I have to get a new ins co due to loss of job? The ins co will say I have a "pre-exsisting" condition and will deny coverage. What is an older American going to do for health ins if they need new coverage?

Where do you get your facts from? Pelosi? Obama?

More than eight in 10 Americans questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. survey released Thursday said they're satisfied with the quality of health care they receive.

And nearly three out of four said they're happy with their overall health care coverage.

Poll: Health care costs too expensive, Americans say - CNN.com

As the Obama administration pushes for a national health care plan, studies show that most Americans are overwhelmingly happy with their own health care -- including most of the 46 million Americans without insurance.

As Obama Pushes National Health Care, Most Americans Already Happy With Coverage - Political News - FOXNews.com

Seventy percent (70%) of Americans with health insurance rate their coverage as good or excellent.

70% of Insured Rate Health Insurance Coverage As Good or Excellent - Rasmussen Reports™

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Social Origins of Eugenics

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Has anyone here ever had to deal with healthcare in Europe? Because we have - husband had to live in Italy for a time for business - and he had to deal with the healthcare there because of an injury. Found it to be fantastic, quick, effective, and free. He was supposed to follow up when he got home, and it cost more here even with insurance (and we have very good insurance; we're lucky in that regard). I don't know why people feel the need to trash the healthcare systems in countries where it clearly works. It's like people think there's only one "right" answer.

Terrific. You stay in Europe, I'll stay here

We can make our health care system better. Crusader Frank wants no part of it because it means change. We can look to other countries. We do not have to reinvent the wheel.

Change is necessary and takes strength and wisdom. Those without strength and wisdom resist change.

I do like your choice of movies Frank.

Planes, Trains and Automobiles is one of those movies where if you're flipping channels and come across it at any part, you just watch until the end

 

[skookerasbil]

The idiot christian fascist neo cons won't be happy until the insurance companys have squeezed every red cent out of the population and left them for dead.

I wish for a minute that there was a hell so you pieces of shit would burn for eternity.

I wish THERE WAS A GOD so he could damn you all to hell.

Im laughing........always the fringe as-sholes become unhinged in any debate, particularly the aethiests.
Deep down the know, that in terms of their opinion in this country.......nobody cares.:funnyface:

 

[anna]

the non citizen muslim will be doing the perp walk before you know it!!! IMPEACH B HUSSEIN!!!!

 

[VaYank5150]

the non citizen muslim will be doing the perp walk before you know it!!! IMPEACH B HUSSEIN!!!!

Hey look! The old, fat, white, racist lady from McCain's stump speech crowd is here!

 

[HUGGY]

Pull your head out countess that is what they already have in Europe and what we will have in the US under Obama care in ten years if not sooner. There will be a panel that decides who lives and who dies, who gets treated and who does not. Because in the end the only real way to limit health care costs are to limit access to health care.

We have those panels today ... bureaucrats hired by the insurance companies.

If you cannot afford to line the pockets of HMO corporations ...just fucking die you worthless pieces of shit.