Palin : Obama will create "Death Panel" !!!!!!

[ElmerMudd]

Actually it is quite valid - the death panel description is apt.

This "end of life consultation" stated to be optional, when combined with the other components of the proposed health care plan, could easily result in just what the so-called fear mongers are warning about - a declaration by the government that your life has reached the point of expendability.

Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure.
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill — a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill — YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED!
Pg 42 of HC Bill — The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you.
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill — HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Pg 58 HC Bill — Government will have real-time access to individual's finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for election funds transfer.
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill — Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example — Translation for illegal aliens.
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill — Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members — your Health care WILL be rationed.
PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill — Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Government Monopoly.
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill — Doctors/ AMA — The Government will tell YOU what you can earn.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records.
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC — "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that.
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill — Doctors — doesn't matter what specialty — will all be paid the same.
PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor's time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.
Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how much they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion — Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.
Pg 354 Sec 1177 — Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.
PG 429 Lines 10-12 "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization. (Like ACORN?)

It is almost criminal to spread lies.
This claim has been checked by independent sources including PolitiFact and others.

This is fear mongering. It is sick. It is disgusting. It is not necessary.

Debate the program on its merits not on lies. Will a public plan not allow the private plans to compete. Will that end up with a single payer plan. What would happen with a single payer plan.

Nut cases like you are turning a very serious issue into a circus. The fear mongering lies are stifling the debate on the real issues.

Here's the deal,, all you can do is say this is lies, but when asked you cannot answer the questions as to what is truth.. you are a puppet on a string. so you have zero credibility and even less brains! Kerry On!

I am not going to take the word of an advocate of either side. I have taken the time to research an unbiast source like Politifact and others.

You should do the same. Those who use fear mongering to make their case, actually fear the truth.

Don't fear the truth, search for the truth.

 

[Gudrid]

Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure.

That is a gross distortion of that section at best. p:22 states that the Secretary of health and human services in conjunction with the Secretary of labor will do a study of the large and self-insured healthcare markets and submit a report to Congress with recommendations of incentives for businesses. There is nothing in there about audits, nor giving authority for forced audits.

let me guess, you pulled these off some biased site and didn't any of it for yourself? just took their word for it?

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill — a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.

Wrong again. It's a joint committee of government and non-government individuals, and it has no decision making authority.

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill — YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED!

Fraid you've been duped again. page 27, note number 3, specifically defines it as not imposing a limit. Cost-sharing can apply in a number of ways.

Pg 42 of HC Bill — The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you.

Good lord. All that section does is say that the Commissioner can set minimum standards required of health insurers in coordination with the insurance commissioner. That's no different that how it is now.

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill — HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Please. That section doesn't even address that subject. It mainly protects against denial of service based on preexisting conditions within the government program.

Pg 58 HC Bill — Government will have real-time access to individual's finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

More propaganda. People who choose to enroll in government healthcare would have *gasp* an insurance card. Pretty standard. Using that card number, the provider at the point of service will be able to look up electronically what that person's co-pay, etc., should be. Also pretty standard. That's all that section says.

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for election funds transfer.

OH NOZ!!! THEYS GOIN 2 LETS PEOPLE PAY WITH DEBIT CARDS!!!!

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).

There's nothing about unions and community organizations specifically. This appears to be a subsidy to any business or group that provides a pension including medical coverage.

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.

oh please. That brings private HC plans under government control the same way the Dept. of labor's job board brings private business under government control. That's just absurd.

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill — Government mandates linguistic appropriate services.

Congratulations on finally getting one right!!!

oh wait, then you had to go screw it up with this bit: "Example — Translation for illegal aliens." Ah well, at least you were close on that one.

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.

This interpretation degrades to the point of paranoid delusion. WTF do Acorn or Americorps have to do with open enrollment periods and providing information about the government health plan? Every insurer does that.

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill — Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members — your Health care WILL be rationed.

You think having different plan levels to choose from in an insurance policy is the same thing as rationing? umm......

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill — Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

No, that sections applies only to the individuals defined in sec 202 (3)(d) of the bill. It is a protection for a very limited group and has zero to do with most people, and it basically ensures that special cases don't end up with no insurance.



I think that's about enough to make the point. Read the key parts of the bill yourself (skim through the administrative stuff and it goes faster). What you've presented here is a gross misrepresentation, whether you realize it or not, and is therefore useless for making informed decisions.

 

[Fatality]

the very fact that people will be forced onto the messiahs health plan is reason enough to reject it in totality.

 

[L.K.Eder]

This:

was a fabulous distortion by the Governor-who-quit, by the way. Of course, no one has suggested or proposed a 'death panal" for the elderly or children who are disabled.

But with Sarah, you only get the chincy talking points that are long on hyperbole and low on facts.

did the ex-gov just use her down syndrome baby to make a political point?

Yep, but that's nothing new. Her kids are her tools.

i am shocked!

won't somebody think of the children?

 

[skookerasbil]

Tell me why don't Republicans want to ackowledge the SAVINGS in health care that we will see by treating illnesses EARLY before they get critical and result in ER visits?

'Cmon cold...........are you kidding me bro?? Thats such a hoax selling point and another thing Americans arent buying. What? Boob McNut is ging to put the fork down and drop 50 pounds tomorrow to ensure his own health care? I rather think not......again, its lefties debating sh!t with pure philosophy, hope and a prayer = fAiL.

 

[skookerasbil]

Leave it to the omnipotent Thomas Sowell who eats up all the lefty nonsense and spits it out with good old common sense........he makes it obscenely simple to understand, so much that the only folks who cant comprehend are those who cannot think on the margin = the 21%ers.


Tuesday, August 04, 2009
Care Versus Control
by Thomas Sowell

As someone who was once rushed to a hospital in the middle of the night, because of taking a medication that millions of people take every day without the slightest problem, I have a special horror of life and death medical decisions being made by bureaucrats in Washington, about patients they have never laid eyes on.

On another occasion, I was told by a doctor that I would have died if I had not gotten to him in time, after an allergic reaction to eating one of the most healthful foods around. On still another occasion, I was treated with a medication that causes many people big problems and was urged to come back to the hospital immediately if I had a really bad reaction. But I had no reaction at all, went home, felt fine and slept soundly through the night.
My point is that everybody is different. Millions of children eat peanut butter sandwiches every day but some children can die from eating peanut butter. Some vaccines and medications that save many lives can also kill some people.

Are decisions made by doctors who have treated the same patient for years to be over-ruled by bureaucrats sitting in front of computer screens in Washington, following guidelines drawn up with the idea of "bringing down the cost of medical care"?

The idea is even more absurd than the idea that you can add millions of people to a government medical care plan without increasing the costs. It is also more dangerous.

What is both dangerous and mindless is rushing a massive new medical care scheme through Congress so fast that members of Congress do not even have time to read it before voting on it. Legislation that is far less sweeping in its effects can get months of hearings before Congressional committees, followed by debates in the Senate and the House of Representatives, with all sorts of people voicing their views in the media and in letters to Congress, while ads from people on both sides of the issue appear in newspapers and on television.

If this new medical scheme is so wonderful, why can't it stand the light of day or a little time to think about it?

The obvious answer is that the administration doesn't want us to know what it is all about or else we would not go along with it. Far better to say that we can't wait, that things are just too urgent. This tactic worked with whizzing the "stimulus" package through Congress, even though the stimulus package itself has not worked.

Any serious discussion of government-run medical care would have to look at other countries where there is government-run medical care. As someone who has done some research on this for my book "Applied Economics," I can tell you that the actual consequences of government-controlled medical care is not a pretty picture, however inspiring the rhetoric that accompanies it.
Thirty thousand Canadians are passing up free medical care at home to go to some other country where they have to pay for it. People don't do that without a reason.

But Canadians are better off than people in some other countries with government-controlled medical care, because they have the United States right next door, in case their medical problems get too serious to rely on their own system.

But where are Americans to turn if we become like Canada? Where are we to go when we need better medical treatment than Washington bureaucrats will let us have? Mexico? The Caribbean?

Many people do not understand that it is not just a question of whether government bureaucrats will agree to pay for particular medical treatments. The same government-control mindset that decides what should and should not be paid for can also decide that the medical technology or pharmaceutical drugs that they control should not be for sale to those who are willing to pay their own money.

Right now, medications or treatments that have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration are medications or treatments that you are not allowed to buy with your own money, no matter how desperate your medical condition, and no matter how many years these medications or treatments may have been used without dire effects in other countries.

The crucial word is not "care" but "control."

 

[ElmerMudd]

Leave it to the omnipotent Thomas Sowell who eats up all the lefty nonsense and spits it out with good old common sense........he makes it obscenely simple to understand, so much that the only folks who cant comprehend are those who cannot think on the margin = the 21%ers.


Tuesday, August 04, 2009
Care Versus Control
by Thomas Sowell

As someone who was once rushed to a hospital in the middle of the night, because of taking a medication that millions of people take every day without the slightest problem, I have a special horror of life and death medical decisions being made by bureaucrats in Washington, about patients they have never laid eyes on.

On another occasion, I was told by a doctor that I would have died if I had not gotten to him in time, after an allergic reaction to eating one of the most healthful foods around. On still another occasion, I was treated with a medication that causes many people big problems and was urged to come back to the hospital immediately if I had a really bad reaction. But I had no reaction at all, went home, felt fine and slept soundly through the night.
My point is that everybody is different. Millions of children eat peanut butter sandwiches every day but some children can die from eating peanut butter. Some vaccines and medications that save many lives can also kill some people.

Are decisions made by doctors who have treated the same patient for years to be over-ruled by bureaucrats sitting in front of computer screens in Washington, following guidelines drawn up with the idea of "bringing down the cost of medical care"?

The idea is even more absurd than the idea that you can add millions of people to a government medical care plan without increasing the costs. It is also more dangerous.

What is both dangerous and mindless is rushing a massive new medical care scheme through Congress so fast that members of Congress do not even have time to read it before voting on it. Legislation that is far less sweeping in its effects can get months of hearings before Congressional committees, followed by debates in the Senate and the House of Representatives, with all sorts of people voicing their views in the media and in letters to Congress, while ads from people on both sides of the issue appear in newspapers and on television.

If this new medical scheme is so wonderful, why can't it stand the light of day or a little time to think about it?

The obvious answer is that the administration doesn't want us to know what it is all about or else we would not go along with it. Far better to say that we can't wait, that things are just too urgent. This tactic worked with whizzing the "stimulus" package through Congress, even though the stimulus package itself has not worked.

Any serious discussion of government-run medical care would have to look at other countries where there is government-run medical care. As someone who has done some research on this for my book "Applied Economics," I can tell you that the actual consequences of government-controlled medical care is not a pretty picture, however inspiring the rhetoric that accompanies it.
Thirty thousand Canadians are passing up free medical care at home to go to some other country where they have to pay for it. People don't do that without a reason.

But Canadians are better off than people in some other countries with government-controlled medical care, because they have the United States right next door, in case their medical problems get too serious to rely on their own system.

But where are Americans to turn if we become like Canada? Where are we to go when we need better medical treatment than Washington bureaucrats will let us have? Mexico? The Caribbean?

Many people do not understand that it is not just a question of whether government bureaucrats will agree to pay for particular medical treatments. The same government-control mindset that decides what should and should not be paid for can also decide that the medical technology or pharmaceutical drugs that they control should not be for sale to those who are willing to pay their own money.

Right now, medications or treatments that have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration are medications or treatments that you are not allowed to buy with your own money, no matter how desperate your medical condition, and no matter how many years these medications or treatments may have been used without dire effects in other countries.

The crucial word is not "care" but "control."

Besides care and control you must consider cost and access.
I agree that I do not want the government to control decisions. In the current system too many of the decisions are made by corporate executives. The motivation is to increase profits. That can compromise care, cost and access.

We need to make changes that will put the control back into the hands of the Doctors that will give wide access at reasonable costs.

As a small business owner I have seen the problems of access and cost in the current system. Because we have very few employees in our insurance pool, our cost is very high.
We need access to larger insurance pools to make our rates more reasonable. People who leave our company have cobra coverage for 18 months at exbordent rates but after that there is no guaranteed coverage.

The current system must be changed. It is the most costly in the world and the least efficient.

Don't just criticize Obama's plan give an alternative.

 

[Sinatra]

Leave it to the omnipotent Thomas Sowell who eats up all the lefty nonsense and spits it out with good old common sense........he makes it obscenely simple to understand, so much that the only folks who cant comprehend are those who cannot think on the margin = the 21%ers.


Tuesday, August 04, 2009
Care Versus Control
by Thomas Sowell

As someone who was once rushed to a hospital in the middle of the night, because of taking a medication that millions of people take every day without the slightest problem, I have a special horror of life and death medical decisions being made by bureaucrats in Washington, about patients they have never laid eyes on.

On another occasion, I was told by a doctor that I would have died if I had not gotten to him in time, after an allergic reaction to eating one of the most healthful foods around. On still another occasion, I was treated with a medication that causes many people big problems and was urged to come back to the hospital immediately if I had a really bad reaction. But I had no reaction at all, went home, felt fine and slept soundly through the night.
My point is that everybody is different. Millions of children eat peanut butter sandwiches every day but some children can die from eating peanut butter. Some vaccines and medications that save many lives can also kill some people.

Are decisions made by doctors who have treated the same patient for years to be over-ruled by bureaucrats sitting in front of computer screens in Washington, following guidelines drawn up with the idea of "bringing down the cost of medical care"?

The idea is even more absurd than the idea that you can add millions of people to a government medical care plan without increasing the costs. It is also more dangerous.

What is both dangerous and mindless is rushing a massive new medical care scheme through Congress so fast that members of Congress do not even have time to read it before voting on it. Legislation that is far less sweeping in its effects can get months of hearings before Congressional committees, followed by debates in the Senate and the House of Representatives, with all sorts of people voicing their views in the media and in letters to Congress, while ads from people on both sides of the issue appear in newspapers and on television.

If this new medical scheme is so wonderful, why can't it stand the light of day or a little time to think about it?

The obvious answer is that the administration doesn't want us to know what it is all about or else we would not go along with it. Far better to say that we can't wait, that things are just too urgent. This tactic worked with whizzing the "stimulus" package through Congress, even though the stimulus package itself has not worked.

Any serious discussion of government-run medical care would have to look at other countries where there is government-run medical care. As someone who has done some research on this for my book "Applied Economics," I can tell you that the actual consequences of government-controlled medical care is not a pretty picture, however inspiring the rhetoric that accompanies it.
Thirty thousand Canadians are passing up free medical care at home to go to some other country where they have to pay for it. People don't do that without a reason.

But Canadians are better off than people in some other countries with government-controlled medical care, because they have the United States right next door, in case their medical problems get too serious to rely on their own system.

But where are Americans to turn if we become like Canada? Where are we to go when we need better medical treatment than Washington bureaucrats will let us have? Mexico? The Caribbean?

Many people do not understand that it is not just a question of whether government bureaucrats will agree to pay for particular medical treatments. The same government-control mindset that decides what should and should not be paid for can also decide that the medical technology or pharmaceutical drugs that they control should not be for sale to those who are willing to pay their own money.

Right now, medications or treatments that have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration are medications or treatments that you are not allowed to buy with your own money, no matter how desperate your medical condition, and no matter how many years these medications or treatments may have been used without dire effects in other countries.

The crucial word is not "care" but "control."

Right On.

 

[WillowTree]

It is almost criminal to spread lies.
This claim has been checked by independent sources including PolitiFact and others.

This is fear mongering. It is sick. It is disgusting. It is not necessary.

Debate the program on its merits not on lies. Will a public plan not allow the private plans to compete. Will that end up with a single payer plan. What would happen with a single payer plan.

Nut cases like you are turning a very serious issue into a circus. The fear mongering lies are stifling the debate on the real issues.

Here's the deal,, all you can do is say this is lies, but when asked you cannot answer the questions as to what is truth.. you are a puppet on a string. so you have zero credibility and even less brains! Kerry On!

I am not going to take the word of an advocate of either side. I have taken the time to research an unbiast source like Politifact and others.

You should do the same. Those who use fear mongering to make their case, actually fear the truth.

Don't fear the truth, search for the truth.

I have and have found that the obamalama contemplates cutting 500 billion dollars from medicare.. who suffers that loss? he has put two eugenicists in poistions of czar, now a czar as I understand it can make policy and dictate policy and it all bypasses the congress,, who suffers from that?? and thirdly it is a fact that the congresscritters voted down the Heller Amendment.

 

[WillowTree]

Of course not.

then why do you fret? are you crazy? no,, don't answer that,

I don't want to GOP to win. Sarah is a born loser. I would think that would be obvious.

BTW, people with LOLcats as avatars shouldn't cast stones.

oxymoronic! that's obvious!

 

[Sinatra]

Here's the deal,, all you can do is say this is lies, but when asked you cannot answer the questions as to what is truth.. you are a puppet on a string. so you have zero credibility and even less brains! Kerry On!

I am not going to take the word of an advocate of either side. I have taken the time to research an unbiast source like Politifact and others.

You should do the same. Those who use fear mongering to make their case, actually fear the truth.

Don't fear the truth, search for the truth.

I have and have found that the obamalama contemplates cutting 500 billion dollars from medicare.. who suffers that loss? he has put two eugenicists in poistions of czar, now a czar as I understand it can make policy and dictate policy and it all bypasses the congress,, who suffers from that?? and thirdly it is a fact that the congresscritters voted down the Heller Amendment.

Yup - and yet, those who extract the potentially chilling components of this health care bill are called fear mongers.

Wake up people and actually start reading the damn bill...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

The problem is this: Congresscritters will not listen to their constituents, and will pass this anyway after the recess. Their minds are made up and they are ignoring questions.

They don't care about the elections, those are far down the road and they know what a short memory and attention span the American voter has, and are banking on the economy recovering (or being SOLD as recovering) by this time next year. And since the MSM will be trumpeting the "great recovery" by then, the voters will return to their sheep state and just vote by rote.

That's the gamble they are taking.

SHit with the media in their pocket the can say one thing and do another,

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Don't just criticize Obama's plan give an alternative.

End insurance companies completly "what the market will bear out of pocket health care".Thats a game changer.

 

[jillian]

Oh wait, I'm self insured. Carry on.

yeah, right... untll heaven forbid you actually have real medical costs... then you cost US after you file bankruptcy because of it.

not the best of judgment.

 

[EriktheRed]

Palin : Obama will create "Death Panel" !!!!!!

Well, that's the kind of expert opinion I look for...

 

[garyd]

The cost are rising as much as anything thing else because of government regulations of which there are thousands at every level. Virtually every company with more than fifty people these days has a department whose sole reason for existence is to make sure that they are in compliance with any and all regulations - state, federal, and local - that affect their business.

 

[jillian]

how long before mandatory abortions? We could have government doctors in the delivery room waiting to crush the baby's skull when it's half way through the birth canal, whether the mother wants it or not.

no offense, that's really beneath you...

 

[Fatality]

the obama scam forces people into it, it is not free choice, it is not free market, it is not free health care, it is not free anything. it is slave care, obama wants to be the slave driver, he wants to crack the whip

 

[rightwinger]

the obama scam forces people into it, it is not free choice, it is not free market, it is not free health care, it is not free anything. it is slave care, obama wants to be the slave driver, he wants to crack the whip

Somewhat overdramatic this morning aren't we?

You forgot the part where Obama wants to take your guns

 

[garyd]

They are doing that very thing in China Jillian. And I can assure you that Obama regulatory czar Cas Sunstein who is on record as favoring abortions as late as the second year of life would approve.