Origin of life Thread: Chemistry of seabed's hot vents could explain emergence of life

[Hollie]

Please ignore the trolls on this thread. I don't want to see irrelevant posts here. I would prefer to stick to the science. And his posts are certainly irrelevant. This is, after all, a science thread.

...and your scientific answer to the math that the odds of 2,000 proteins magically aligning themselves into a functioning cell using only left-handed amino acids are E5,700 -1 is....?

You need to attend a few more of your Watchtower Bible Society meetings. And pay attention to your lessons. Yours is standard, debunked creationist drivel. You folks can't even count correctly.
CB040 Left-handed amino acids

Claim CB040:
The twenty amino acids used by life are all the left-handed variety. This is very unlikely to have occurred by chance.

Source:
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 43

Response:

1. The amino acids that are used in life, like most other aspects of living things, are very likely not the product of chance. Instead, they likely resulted from a selection process. A simple peptide replicator can amplify the proportion of a single handedness in an initially random mixture of left- and right-handed fragments (Saghatelian et al. 2001; TSRI 2001). Self-assemblies on two-dimensional surfaces can also amplify a single handedness (Zepik et al. 2002). Serine forms stable clusters of a single handedness which can select other amino acids of like handedness by subtituting them for serine; these clusters also incorporate other biologically important molecules such as glyceraldehyde, glucose, and phosphoric acid (Takats et al. 2003). An excess of handedness in one kind of amino acid catalyzes the handedness of other organic products, such as threose, which may have figured prominently in proto-life (Pizzarello and Weber 2004).
2. Amino acids found in meteorites from space, which must have formed abiotically, also show significantly more of the left-handed variety, perhaps from circularly polarized UV light in the early solar system (Engel and Macko 1997; Cronin and Pizzarello 1999). The weak nuclear force, responsible for beta decay, produces only electrons with left-handed spin, and chemicals exposed to these electrons are far more likely to form left-handed crystals (Service 1999). Such mechanisms might also have been responsible for the prevalence of left-handed amino acids on earth.
3. The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001). It is not all that unlikely that the same handedness might occur so few times by chance, especially if one of the amino acids was glycine, which has no handedness.
4. Some bacteria use right-handed amino acids, too (McCarthy et al. 1998).

Links:
Jacoby, Mitch. 2003. Serine flavors the primordial soup. Chemical and Engineering News 81(32): 5.American Chemical Society

Create life bitch. If you can't do that then I don't believe all your bs

Lovely folks, you angry, self-hating religious zealots.

classy

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

 

[eots]

...and your scientific answer to the math that the odds of 2,000 proteins magically aligning themselves into a functioning cell using only left-handed amino acids are E5,700 -1 is....?

You need to attend a few more of your Watchtower Bible Society meetings. And pay attention to your lessons. Yours is standard, debunked creationist drivel. You folks can't even count correctly.
CB040 Left-handed amino acids

Claim CB040:
The twenty amino acids used by life are all the left-handed variety. This is very unlikely to have occurred by chance.

Source:
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 43

Response:

1. The amino acids that are used in life, like most other aspects of living things, are very likely not the product of chance. Instead, they likely resulted from a selection process. A simple peptide replicator can amplify the proportion of a single handedness in an initially random mixture of left- and right-handed fragments (Saghatelian et al. 2001; TSRI 2001). Self-assemblies on two-dimensional surfaces can also amplify a single handedness (Zepik et al. 2002). Serine forms stable clusters of a single handedness which can select other amino acids of like handedness by subtituting them for serine; these clusters also incorporate other biologically important molecules such as glyceraldehyde, glucose, and phosphoric acid (Takats et al. 2003). An excess of handedness in one kind of amino acid catalyzes the handedness of other organic products, such as threose, which may have figured prominently in proto-life (Pizzarello and Weber 2004).
2. Amino acids found in meteorites from space, which must have formed abiotically, also show significantly more of the left-handed variety, perhaps from circularly polarized UV light in the early solar system (Engel and Macko 1997; Cronin and Pizzarello 1999). The weak nuclear force, responsible for beta decay, produces only electrons with left-handed spin, and chemicals exposed to these electrons are far more likely to form left-handed crystals (Service 1999). Such mechanisms might also have been responsible for the prevalence of left-handed amino acids on earth.
3. The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001). It is not all that unlikely that the same handedness might occur so few times by chance, especially if one of the amino acids was glycine, which has no handedness.
4. Some bacteria use right-handed amino acids, too (McCarthy et al. 1998).

Links:
Jacoby, Mitch. 2003. Serine flavors the primordial soup. Chemical and Engineering News 81(32): 5.American Chemical Society

Create life bitch. If you can't do that then I don't believe all your bs

Lovely folks, you angry, self-hating religious zealots.

classy

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

you have no clue what creates life ..why do you pretend

 

[SUPERMAN1929]

...and your scientific answer to the math that the odds of 2,000 proteins magically aligning themselves into a functioning cell using only left-handed amino acids are E5,700 -1 is....?

You need to attend a few more of your Watchtower Bible Society meetings. And pay attention to your lessons. Yours is standard, debunked creationist drivel. You folks can't even count correctly.
CB040 Left-handed amino acids

Claim CB040:
The twenty amino acids used by life are all the left-handed variety. This is very unlikely to have occurred by chance.

Source:
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 43

Response:

1. The amino acids that are used in life, like most other aspects of living things, are very likely not the product of chance. Instead, they likely resulted from a selection process. A simple peptide replicator can amplify the proportion of a single handedness in an initially random mixture of left- and right-handed fragments (Saghatelian et al. 2001; TSRI 2001). Self-assemblies on two-dimensional surfaces can also amplify a single handedness (Zepik et al. 2002). Serine forms stable clusters of a single handedness which can select other amino acids of like handedness by subtituting them for serine; these clusters also incorporate other biologically important molecules such as glyceraldehyde, glucose, and phosphoric acid (Takats et al. 2003). An excess of handedness in one kind of amino acid catalyzes the handedness of other organic products, such as threose, which may have figured prominently in proto-life (Pizzarello and Weber 2004).
2. Amino acids found in meteorites from space, which must have formed abiotically, also show significantly more of the left-handed variety, perhaps from circularly polarized UV light in the early solar system (Engel and Macko 1997; Cronin and Pizzarello 1999). The weak nuclear force, responsible for beta decay, produces only electrons with left-handed spin, and chemicals exposed to these electrons are far more likely to form left-handed crystals (Service 1999). Such mechanisms might also have been responsible for the prevalence of left-handed amino acids on earth.
3. The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001). It is not all that unlikely that the same handedness might occur so few times by chance, especially if one of the amino acids was glycine, which has no handedness.
4. Some bacteria use right-handed amino acids, too (McCarthy et al. 1998).

Links:
Jacoby, Mitch. 2003. Serine flavors the primordial soup. Chemical and Engineering News 81(32): 5.American Chemical Society

Create life bitch. If you can't do that then I don't believe all your bs

Lovely folks, you angry, self-hating religious zealots.

classy

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

A powerful god is more likely than magical appearance with no cause at all. Just randomly appearing from no where is magic to me.

 

[Hollie]

Origin-of-life puzzle cracked - The Panda s Thumb

A pair of recent articles on the Science website seems to think so. Staff writer Robert Service says Researchers may have solved origin-of-life conundrum and writes,

"Chemists report today that a pair of simple compounds [HCN and H2S], which would have been abundant on early Earth, can give rise to a network of simple reactions that produce the three major classes of biomolecules—nucleic acids, amino acids, and lipids—needed for the earliest form of life to get its start. Although the new work does not prove that this is how life started, it may eventually help explain one of the deepest mysteries in modern science."

Well, yes, but that is a far cry from saying the puzzle is solved. Indeed, a comment to an “in-depth” article, Origin-of-life puzzle cracked, in Science magazine notes,

The title is certainly misleading, since the origin of life puzzle is still very far from “cracked.” Showing that biomolecules, even complex biomolecules, can be synthesized under plausible primordial conditions is very different from showing how those molecules could have assembled to produce the first cell. Only then can one claim to have cracked the puzzle.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Now that is interesting!

http://web.physics.ucsb.edu/~hhansma/HHansmaJTB2010.pdf

Apparently something has happened at that site.

I was going to post her work today. You saved me the trouble.

LOLz

Yeah, sock thanks sock

It's like Bodecca thanking Hazlnut or Rdean thanking Guno

yoar funny Frank1400PennAve. CrusaderFrank

Seriously though, lets stay on-topic shall we young earther?

This is the topic

u a creationist/young earther Frank1400PennAve?

No honey. I find it amusing.

Human awareness is like an ant living inside a matchbox in the subway tunnel who has a never-ending dialogue with himself on the total awesomeness of his little corner of the matchbox

 

[orogenicman]

You need to attend a few more of your Watchtower Bible Society meetings. And pay attention to your lessons. Yours is standard, debunked creationist drivel. You folks can't even count correctly.
CB040 Left-handed amino acids

Claim CB040:
The twenty amino acids used by life are all the left-handed variety. This is very unlikely to have occurred by chance.

Source:
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. 1985. Life--How Did It Get Here? Brooklyn, NY, pg. 43

Response:

1. The amino acids that are used in life, like most other aspects of living things, are very likely not the product of chance. Instead, they likely resulted from a selection process. A simple peptide replicator can amplify the proportion of a single handedness in an initially random mixture of left- and right-handed fragments (Saghatelian et al. 2001; TSRI 2001). Self-assemblies on two-dimensional surfaces can also amplify a single handedness (Zepik et al. 2002). Serine forms stable clusters of a single handedness which can select other amino acids of like handedness by subtituting them for serine; these clusters also incorporate other biologically important molecules such as glyceraldehyde, glucose, and phosphoric acid (Takats et al. 2003). An excess of handedness in one kind of amino acid catalyzes the handedness of other organic products, such as threose, which may have figured prominently in proto-life (Pizzarello and Weber 2004).
2. Amino acids found in meteorites from space, which must have formed abiotically, also show significantly more of the left-handed variety, perhaps from circularly polarized UV light in the early solar system (Engel and Macko 1997; Cronin and Pizzarello 1999). The weak nuclear force, responsible for beta decay, produces only electrons with left-handed spin, and chemicals exposed to these electrons are far more likely to form left-handed crystals (Service 1999). Such mechanisms might also have been responsible for the prevalence of left-handed amino acids on earth.
3. The first self-replicator may have had eight or fewer types of amino acids (Cavalier-Smith 2001). It is not all that unlikely that the same handedness might occur so few times by chance, especially if one of the amino acids was glycine, which has no handedness.
4. Some bacteria use right-handed amino acids, too (McCarthy et al. 1998).

Links:
Jacoby, Mitch. 2003. Serine flavors the primordial soup. Chemical and Engineering News 81(32): 5.American Chemical Society

Create life bitch. If you can't do that then I don't believe all your bs

Lovely folks, you angry, self-hating religious zealots.

classy

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

you have no clue what creates life ..why do you pretend

Actually, we have many clues.

 

[eots]

Create life bitch. If you can't do that then I don't believe all your bs

Lovely folks, you angry, self-hating religious zealots.

classy

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

you have no clue what creates life ..why do you pretend

Actually, we have many clues.

name three

 

[orogenicman]

Lovely folks, you angry, self-hating religious zealots.

classy

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

you have no clue what creates life ..why do you pretend

Actually, we have many clues.

name three

The existence of deep oceanic vents where very primitive life exists in the absence of sunlight. The primitive organic chemistry occurring at those vents. The extreme range of conditions in which we find life here on Earth. All of these are clues as to how life originated.

 

[eots]

classy

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

you have no clue what creates life ..why do you pretend

Actually, we have many clues.

name three

The existence of deep oceanic vents where very primitive life exists in the absence of sunlight. The primitive organic chemistry occurring at those vents. The extreme range of conditions in which we find life here on Earth. All of these are clues as to how life originated.

what they are is evidence life can exist in a variety of conditions

 

[orogenicman]

Respond to the topic. There's no magical gawds required for life to emerge. Make a case for your gawds.

you have no clue what creates life ..why do you pretend

Actually, we have many clues.

name three

The existence of deep oceanic vents where very primitive life exists in the absence of sunlight. The primitive organic chemistry occurring at those vents. The extreme range of conditions in which we find life here on Earth. All of these are clues as to how life originated.

what they are is evidence life can exist in a variety of conditions

And those conditions are clues as to how life originated.

 

[eots]

those wanting to believe life is the result of random chemical interactions ,might consider it a place to.. look for clues.. to support their belief but it is not a clue in and of itself

 

[orogenicman]

those wanting to believe life is the result of random chemical interactions ,might consider it a place to.. look for clues.. to support their belief but it is not a clue in and of itself

Chemical reactions are never random. The obey know physical laws and principles.

 

[eots]

those wanting to believe life is the result of random chemical interactions ,might consider it a place to.. look for clues.. to support their belief but it is not a clue in and of itself

Chemical reactions are never random. The obey know physical laws and principles.

lol..so there is order to the universe... this thing that came from nothing...Interesting..and what might that be evidence of ?

 

[orogenicman]

those wanting to believe life is the result of random chemical interactions ,might consider it a place to.. look for clues.. to support their belief but it is not a clue in and of itself

Chemical reactions are never random. The obey know physical laws and principles.

lol..so there is order to the universe... this thing that came from nothing...Interesting..and what might that be evidence of ?

Repeatedly making straw man arguments isn't helping your case.

 

[eots]

those wanting to believe life is the result of random chemical interactions ,might consider it a place to.. look for clues.. to support their belief but it is not a clue in and of itself

Chemical reactions are never random. The obey know physical laws and principles.

lol..so there is order to the universe... this thing that came from nothing...Interesting..and what might that be evidence of ?

Repeatedly making straw man arguments isn't helping your case.

I would argue using the fact chemicals react in predictable ways to support spontaneous generation is a strawman

 

[orogenicman]

those wanting to believe life is the result of random chemical interactions ,might consider it a place to.. look for clues.. to support their belief but it is not a clue in and of itself

Chemical reactions are never random. The obey know physical laws and principles.

lol..so there is order to the universe... this thing that came from nothing...Interesting..and what might that be evidence of ?

Repeatedly making straw man arguments isn't helping your case.

I would argue using the fact chemicals react in predictable ways to support spontaneous generation is a strawman

And you would be posting a strawman argument because no one is claiming that what occurs is spontaneous generation (except you, of course). You just don't know when to quit, do you?

 

[eots]

those wanting to believe life is the result of random chemical interactions ,might consider it a place to.. look for clues.. to support their belief but it is not a clue in and of itself

Chemical reactions are never random. The obey know physical laws and principles.

lol..so there is order to the universe... this thing that came from nothing...Interesting..and what might that be evidence of ?

Repeatedly making straw man arguments isn't helping your case.

I would argue using the fact chemicals react in predictable ways to support spontaneous generation is a strawman

And you would be posting a strawman argument because no one is claiming that what occurs is spontaneous generation (except you, of course). You just don't know when to quit, do you?

so what would you call the leap from non-life to life ?

 

[westwall]

ADDRESS the OP folks. I deleted almost 8 pages worth of crap. Violators will be skinned!

 

[Mac1958]

This thread is dedicated to the scientific exploration of the origin of life on Earth. This is my first contribution, which describes new research into the spontaneous production of organic molecules requisite for life. Feel free to contribute other examples.

Origin of life Chemistry of seabed s hot vents could explain emergence of life -- ScienceDaily

Date:
April 27, 2015
Source:
University College London
Summary:
Hot vents on the seabed could have spontaneously produced the organic molecules necessary for life, according to new research. The study shows how the surfaces of mineral particles inside hydrothermal vents have similar chemical properties to enzymes, the biological molecules that govern chemical reactions in living organisms. This means that vents are able to create simple carbon-based molecules, such as methanol and formic acid, out of the dissolved CO2 in the water.

This is more evidence that the building blocks of life were likely present and forming in these environments before life emerged on Earth.

What our research proves is that these vents also have the chemical properties that encourage these molecules to recombine into molecules usually associated with living organisms

More at the link.

Wow, interesting implications, outside of Earth as well. And this part is very cool: It also has potential practical applications, showing how products such as plastics and fuels could be synthesized from CO2 rather than oil.

What interests me the most is the ability for life to begin/exist/thrive within environments that we would normally think are too hostile, and the vents are one example. Another is a region (I don't remember where this is) where it exists within completely frozen ice that has no exposure to sunlight at any time.

We're learning more all the time, very exciting.

.

 

[Hollie]

The Talkorigins sits has a good page addressing the origins of life and many of the many failed arguments of supernatural creationists.

Abiogenesis FAQs The Origins of Life