oops...cain is pro choice

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I wouldn't call him pro-choice. His position is identical to mine and I'm pro-life while still being pro-liberty.

Cain, like myself, finds abortion to be wrong due to it being murder of an innocent life which starts at conception (opinions).

Cain, Like myself, doesn't want the govt involved in any personal health decisions, of which abortion is one (also why neither one of us supports obamacare).

Cain, like myself, doesn't want to legally impose his values on others and therefore says that if an idividual is in a situation and is thinking about an abortion that decision is between that individual and their doctor and the govt has no role in promoting (by helping pay for) or denying (by making it illegal) the individual that liberty to choose.

That is untrue... he has "clarified" his position (someone must have read him the rightwing playbook)... he now says he would do everything to make reproductive choice illegal and it was "then up to the family if they want to break the law".

really???

you made me check something out, you are right that is his position, my bad.

He doesn't agree with me on the last part, he does think abortions should be illegal. I think since we have roe v wade it shouldn't be up to me, a politician, or the govt in general to be involved in any way.

Here he was pretty clear about it in this video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyeAsWV9HEc]GOP12.com: Cain on abortion - YouTube[/ame]


So cain and I don't share identical views on abortion........where we differ is here as he does not agree and thinks it should be illegal for everyone.

 

[Ropey]

I wouldn't call him pro-choice. His position is identical to mine and I'm pro-life while still being pro-liberty.

Cain, like myself, finds abortion to be wrong due to it being murder of an innocent life which starts at conception (opinions).

Cain, Like myself, doesn't want the govt involved in any personal health decisions, of which abortion is one (also why neither one of us supports obamacare).

Cain, like myself, doesn't want to legally impose his values on others and therefore says that if an idividual is in a situation and is thinking about an abortion that decision is between that individual and their doctor and the govt has no role in promoting (by helping pay for) or denying (by making it illegal) the individual that liberty to choose.

That is untrue... he has "clarified" his position (someone must have read him the rightwing playbook)... he now says he would do everything to make reproductive choice illegal and it was "then up to the family if they want to break the law".

really???

you made me check something out, you are right that is his position, my bad.

He doesn't agree with me on the last part, he does think abortions should be illegal. I think since we have roe v wade it shouldn't be up to me, a politician, or the govt in general to be involved in any way.

Here he was pretty clear about it in this video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyeAsWV9HEc]GOP12.com: Cain on abortion - YouTube[/ame]

So cain and I don't share identical views on abortion........where we differ is here as he does not agree and thinks it should be illegal for everyone.

Separation of personal moral views and politics when in the arena. It isn't up to you Plymco, but you have your personal moral view. So does he and separates them.

As should be imo.

 

[Truthmatters]

the really sad thing is this whole mess shows he NEVER actually thought it through.

He wanted to have it up to the person and not government.

He then realised the right was too insane for that position.

 

[The Infidel]

actually he's very clear. he, himself, would never support abortion. but as a leader, he believes the constitution limits the actions that government can take.

and yes, syrenn... they are going to go into meltdown, though that wasn't (really) my intent. however, i think starting tomorrow, you might start seeing cain's numbers dropping.

Still waiting for that?



I will vote for ANY one of the republicans running over that lying mother fuckeer and ALL his cronies in the white house and Congress.

The Democrats are a bunch of deceptive assholes and I wouldnt trust them to change a lightbulb.



Im The Infidel and I support this ad

 

[paulitician]

Yea i just don't get the Left/Nanny Staters. They're always trying to ban everything yet get so hopped up over killing babies. Left/Nanny Staters really are confused. They want the big Government Nanny State but then complain when the Government tries to control everything. They just want it both ways i guess. But guess what? That can't happen. And the same can be said about phony Conservatives. I don't want the Government making these decisions for citizens. People just need to become more honest and consistent.

 

[The Infidel]

the really sad thing is this whole mess shows he NEVER actually thought it through.

He wanted to have it up to the person and not government.

He then realised the right was too insane for that position.

Looks whos talking about insane people....

Looked in a mirror lately?

 

[The Infidel]

Yea i just don't get the Left/Nanny Staters. They're always trying to ban everything yet get so hopped up over killing babies. Left/Nanny Staters really are confused. They want the big Government Nanny State but then complain when the Government tries to control everything. They just want it both ways i guess. But guess what? That can't happen. And the same can be said about phony Conservatives. I don't want the Government making these decisions for citizens. People just need to become more honest and consistent.

Dude.... are you nuts?

They love it when the gov't controls everything. They need the nanny state to survive.

 

[Foxfyre]

I wouldn't call him pro-choice. His position is identical to mine and I'm pro-life while still being pro-liberty.

Cain, like myself, finds abortion to be wrong due to it being murder of an innocent life which starts at conception (opinions).

Cain, Like myself, doesn't want the govt involved in any personal health decisions, of which abortion is one (also why neither one of us supports obamacare).

Cain, like myself, doesn't want to legally impose his values on others and therefore says that if an idividual is in a situation and is thinking about an abortion that decision is between that individual and their doctor and the govt has no role in promoting (by helping pay for) or denying (by making it illegal) the individual that liberty to choose.

That is untrue... he has "clarified" his position (someone must have read him the rightwing playbook)... he now says he would do everything to make reproductive choice illegal and it was "then up to the family if they want to break the law".

really???

you made me check something out, you are right that is his position, my bad.

He doesn't agree with me on the last part, he does think abortions should be illegal. I think since we have roe v wade it shouldn't be up to me, a politician, or the govt in general to be involved in any way.

Here he was pretty clear about it in this video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyeAsWV9HEc]GOP12.com: Cain on abortion - YouTube[/ame]


So cain and I don't share identical views on abortion........where we differ is here as he does not agree and thinks it should be illegal for everyone.

He said he would sign legislation that would defund Planned Parenthood and all government funding of abortion and related issues. I am 100% with him on that.

The one question Martha did not ask him and he did not volunteer:
"Would you sign federal legislation making it illegal to have an abortion anywhere in the country. Would you sign legislation to overturn Roe v Wade?"

It is THAT which I think he would not do and which I think he has previously stated he would not do. I could be wrong though I think the question is moot because the Congress isn't going to send that legislation to him. I wouldn't support him in that either.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

That is untrue... he has "clarified" his position (someone must have read him the rightwing playbook)... he now says he would do everything to make reproductive choice illegal and it was "then up to the family if they want to break the law".

really???

you made me check something out, you are right that is his position, my bad.

He doesn't agree with me on the last part, he does think abortions should be illegal. I think since we have roe v wade it shouldn't be up to me, a politician, or the govt in general to be involved in any way.

Here he was pretty clear about it in this video

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyeAsWV9HEc]GOP12.com: Cain on abortion - YouTube[/ame]


So cain and I don't share identical views on abortion........where we differ is here as he does not agree and thinks it should be illegal for everyone.

He said he would sign legislation that would defund Planned Parenthood and all government funding of abortion and related issues. I am 100% with him on that.

The one question Martha did not ask him and he did not volunteer:
"Would you sign federal legislation making it illegal to have an abortion anywhere in the country. Would you sign legislation to overturn Roe v Wade?"

It is THAT which I think he would not do and which I think he has previously stated he would not do. I could be wrong though I think the question is moot because the Congress isn't going to send that legislation to him. I wouldn't support him in that either.

I think you are right but he isn't completely clear on that aspect of the issue.

 

[Foxfyre]

That has been Cain's one weakness that I have observed in the national debate. He isn't quite as quick on his feet as say a Newt Gingrich and he doesn't always extemporaneously come up with his complete thoughts all at once when he is questioned. And that has created some misconceptions about him.

I tend to be the same way though. I will make a post here on USMB and later go back to edit it to complete the thought I was trying to make. And still can leave a critical point out. Or I will be in a discussion with somebody and think later that I wished I had thought to say such and such.

The guys in the interviews, especailly in 30 to 60 second soundbites don't usually get the chance to do that, however. And if they bring it up later, they will be characterized as 'backing off' a previous statement or 'flip flopping'.

 

[paulitician]

Yea i just don't get the Left/Nanny Staters. They're always trying to ban everything yet get so hopped up over killing babies. Left/Nanny Staters really are confused. They want the big Government Nanny State but then complain when the Government tries to control everything. They just want it both ways i guess. But guess what? That can't happen. And the same can be said about phony Conservatives. I don't want the Government making these decisions for citizens. People just need to become more honest and consistent.

Dude.... are you nuts?

They love it when the gov't controls everything. They need the nanny state to survive.

Oh i hear ya. Then they shouldn't complain when the Government tries to control their lives. The Left/Nanny Staters can't have it both ways. If a State decides to ban Abortion,the Nanny Staters will just have to accept this. I wont accept it but i'm not a Nanny Stater.

 

[jillian]

Yea i just don't get the Left/Nanny Staters. They're always trying to ban everything yet get so hopped up over killing babies. Left/Nanny Staters really are confused. They want the big Government Nanny State but then complain when the Government tries to control everything. They just want it both ways i guess. But guess what? That can't happen. And the same can be said about phony Conservatives. I don't want the Government making these decisions for citizens. People just need to become more honest and consistent.

Dude.... are you nuts?

They love it when the gov't controls everything. They need the nanny state to survive.

Oh i hear ya. Then they shouldn't complain when the Government tries to control their lives. The Left/Nanny Staters can't have it both ways. If a State decides to ban Abortion,the Nanny Staters will just have to accept this. I wont accept it but i'm not a Nanny Stater.

and yet it's you loony rightwingnuts who keep wanting to tell women what to do with their bodies.

imbecile.

 

[Ropey]

That has been Cain's one weakness that I have observed in the national debate. He isn't quite as quick on his feet as say a Newt Gingrich and he doesn't always extemporaneously come up with his complete thoughts all at once when he is questioned. And that has created some misconceptions about him.

I tend to be the same way though. I will make a post here on USMB and later go back to edit it to complete the thought I was trying to make. And still can leave a critical point out. Or I will be in a discussion with somebody and think later that I wished I had thought to say such and such.

The guys in the interviews, especailly in 30 to 60 second soundbites don't usually get the chance to do that, however. And if they bring it up later, they will be characterized as 'backing off' a previous statement or 'flip flopping'.

Very well said and with none of the, "I Know You Are, But What Am I" posts Foxfyre.

I tend to agree and hope that Cain just needs to become more knowledgeable. If it is that he is a bit slow on the communication uptake.

Then that's not good.

 

[GHook93]

Dude.... are you nuts?

They love it when the gov't controls everything. They need the nanny state to survive.

Oh i hear ya. Then they shouldn't complain when the Government tries to control their lives. The Left/Nanny Staters can't have it both ways. If a State decides to ban Abortion,the Nanny Staters will just have to accept this. I wont accept it but i'm not a Nanny Stater.

and yet it's you loony rightwingnuts who keep wanting to tell women what to do with their bodies.

imbecile.

I am pro-choice in the first trimester. However, you simplify the situation way too much. In law school they taught on the issue there are two competing interests to be balanced: Woman's Right to PRIVACY over her body and the Fetus/Baby's right to life!

Back in the day if you beat up a pregnant woman and the baby died you would only be charged with battery. Rightfully people opposed this and the law was changed. Now if you beat up a pregnant woman and the baby dies your charged with murder. The law justifiably recognizes the baby's right to life there.

Cain is not as pro-life and he is now making himself seem. He tried to skirt the issue, by saying he is against it, but it's the woman's choice. Later his handlers told him if you want to win the primaries you have to double down and come out against it.

I still don't know how a person can morally force a rape or incest victim to go through with the pregnancy and birth. That just seems immoral.

 

[Foxfyre]

Oh i hear ya. Then they shouldn't complain when the Government tries to control their lives. The Left/Nanny Staters can't have it both ways. If a State decides to ban Abortion,the Nanny Staters will just have to accept this. I wont accept it but i'm not a Nanny Stater.

and yet it's you loony rightwingnuts who keep wanting to tell women what to do with their bodies.

imbecile.

I am pro-choice in the first trimester. However, you simplify the situation way too much. In law school they taught on the issue there are two competing interests to be balanced: Woman's Right to PRIVACY over her body and the Fetus/Baby's right to life!

Back in the day if you beat up a pregnant woman and the baby died you would only be charged with battery. Rightfully people opposed this and the law was changed. Now if you beat up a pregnant woman and the baby dies your charged with murder. The law justifiably recognizes the baby's right to life there.

Cain is not as pro-life and he is now making himself seem. He tried to skirt the issue, by saying he is against it, but it's the woman's choice. Later his handlers told him if you want to win the primaries you have to double down and come out against it.

I still don't know how a person can morally force a rape or incest victim to go through with the pregnancy and birth. That just seems immoral.

I would strenously fight any law that would force people to do anything other than bear consequences of the law of the land and the unalienable rights of others. I know women who became pregnant via rape and incest who put the baby's life and rights ahead of their own and had the baby. The infants were given up to loving couples who desperately wanted the child, but I have to tip my hat to those accidental mothers for that kind of selfless love. I also would not have demanded that they go through that against their wills.

Roe v Wade is flawed law because it has been so easily manipulated by the pro-abortion crowd and the courts. But if the courts would just enforce it as written, the language is exquisite. It takes the position that in the first trimester, the issue is between the woman and her doctor and the state does not have any interest in that. In the second trimester, as the infant is approaching viability, the state has increasing interest. And in the third trimester when the infant is usually viable, the state has a great deal of interest in the unborn life. That leave room to require a court order for a mid term or late term abortion and for the abortion to be denied if it is for no other reason than the mother doesn't want the child.

For the life of me, I cannot see how anybody, pro life or pro choice, would not agree to that compromise on what is a very difficult issue.

I'm pretty sure Herman Cain would absolutely agree.

 

[paulitician]

Dude.... are you nuts?

They love it when the gov't controls everything. They need the nanny state to survive.

Oh i hear ya. Then they shouldn't complain when the Government tries to control their lives. The Left/Nanny Staters can't have it both ways. If a State decides to ban Abortion,the Nanny Staters will just have to accept this. I wont accept it but i'm not a Nanny Stater.

and yet it's you loony rightwingnuts who keep wanting to tell women what to do with their bodies.

imbecile.

I just told you i'm a "rightwingnut" and i'm Pro-Choice. I don't speak for anyone but myself. And you loony Nanny Staters are just as big hypocrites as the phony Conservatives are on this issue. You guys want the Government controlling citizens' lives yet get all hopped up when the Government tries to ban killing babies. You guys are all for banning things usually. So both Nanny Staters and phony Conservatives need to be more honest and consistent. I'm pretty sick of you both trying to have it both ways all the time.

 

[jillian]

Oh i hear ya. Then they shouldn't complain when the Government tries to control their lives. The Left/Nanny Staters can't have it both ways. If a State decides to ban Abortion,the Nanny Staters will just have to accept this. I wont accept it but i'm not a Nanny Stater.

and yet it's you loony rightwingnuts who keep wanting to tell women what to do with their bodies.

imbecile.

I just told you i'm a "rightwingnut" and i'm Pro-Choice. I don't speak for anyone but myself. And you loony Nanny Staters are just as big hypocrites as the phony Conservatives are on this issue. You guys want the Government controlling citizens' lives yet get all hopped up when the Government tries to ban killing babies. You guys are all for banning things usually. So both Nanny Staters and phony Conservatives need to be more honest and consistent. I'm pretty sick of you both trying to have it both ways all the time.

anyone who uses the term "nanny staters" isn't anything more than a troll.

anyone who thinks ron paul is someone worthwhile is just simply naive and/or ignorant.

i couldn't care less what an idiot like you is "sick of".

 

[paulitician]

and yet it's you loony rightwingnuts who keep wanting to tell women what to do with their bodies.

imbecile.

I just told you i'm a "rightwingnut" and i'm Pro-Choice. I don't speak for anyone but myself. And you loony Nanny Staters are just as big hypocrites as the phony Conservatives are on this issue. You guys want the Government controlling citizens' lives yet get all hopped up when the Government tries to ban killing babies. You guys are all for banning things usually. So both Nanny Staters and phony Conservatives need to be more honest and consistent. I'm pretty sick of you both trying to have it both ways all the time.

anyone who uses the term "nanny staters" isn't anything more than a troll.

anyone who thinks ron paul is someone worthwhile is just simply naive and/or ignorant.

i couldn't care less what an idiot like you is "sick of".

Well then i guess we have nothing more to discuss. lol! Take care and God bless.