Only a referendum can pave a way for real elections in America

[OKTexas]

What a cryptic phrase. Keep fighting for that Keystone pipeline though.

Should have read, The petroleum industry gets nothing other industries don't get, but hey, carry on with the propaganda. Keystone will happen, it's just a matter of time, BTW the southern leg is already operational.

I guess that part where I was critical of narrow industry issues becoming mainstream issues through aggressive lobbying went right over your head.

If your point was about lobbying then you shouldn't have singled out one industry, they all do it and try to make their respective issues mainstream. The envirowennies are exceptionally adept at doing it and they get taxpayer money, where is your outrage about them?

 

[pvsi]

Maybe you have it backwards or you are just a knee jerk victim of pop-culture. In 2000 a V.P. in a war criminal administration ran against George W. Bush. Clinton and Gore bombed a defenseless country without permission from congress. Bush had congressional approval for Iraq and Afghanistan but the democrat traitors in congress undermined the Military mission. Join the Tea Party if you want to make the Republican party more responsive or join CUSA if you want democrats to drift further left or join the Libertarians if you think marijuana is the most important issue but quit freaking whining.

One would have to be pretty dull not to connect that the reason I stated that I voted for Bush was in 2000 was precisely because he ran as an anti war candidate because I was fed up with war mongering of the previous administration, but what is funny is that at the same time you are trying to sound smart.

I don't recall Bush being an anti-war candidate.

People forget, here's a reminder:

 

[pvsi]

Only a referendum can pave a way for real elections in America

Ignorant nonsense.

The United States is a Constitutional Republic,

WAS perhaps, but lately constitution is something that US politicians use to wipe their asses with.

 

[pvsi]

One would have to be pretty dull not to connect that the reason I stated that I voted for Bush was in 2000 was precisely because he ran as an anti war candidate because I was fed up with war mongering of the previous administration, but what is funny is that at the same time you are trying to sound smart.

And with GWB you got not one but two illegal wars.

Damn, you say something good and turn around and lie your ass off, it must be really scary in your head. Bush had congressional approval for what he did, that is all the law requires, period. I don't want to hear a damned word about lies either, when you defend the most prolific lier in our history.

American puppet congress is not the judge of the world for what is legal

 

[pvsi]

You project your beliefs on to the public at large while apparently having little idea of what people are actually like. Politics is about people and the search for consensus, so far you are just not putting things in a way that would make your average yokel stand and nod unthinkingly. Rather than just speaking the language of populism, learn what it means and how to use it effectively for that alone is the difference between success and failure in politics on any scale.

Well thank you for the kind advice occupied, but my belief in populism is at the core of my soul: you see, I am not buying into this whole notion created by the political pundits on the establishment media that masses of people are the ones who are electing all the stupid leaders today, I am convinced that they are merely manipulated against their will, and that once a real leader emerges, the masses will stand firmly behind that leader

Two things. Have you ever considered that people are manipulated with their full consent?

Also, the idea of a grand leader with the vast majority of America standing behind them should scare the fuck out of any freedom loving American, no bigger threat to freedom exists than a cult of personality.

1. Partially true: many have the deep down feeling that by being a part of the criminal industry that is American government, they benefit from the welfare state, but
2. Once the welfare state will collapse, what they fear will not matter, especially after a few years of brutal civil war and hunger, they will accept anything. It is the sort of thing that they can accept the easy way or the hard way, I am just a man who will continue speaking from my heart and soul what I believe deep down inside regardless if it is popular or not, because I do believe there is a higher power monitoring my every movement and that is NOT NSA.

 

[OKTexas]

And with GWB you got not one but two illegal wars.

Damn, you say something good and turn around and lie your ass off, it must be really scary in your head. Bush had congressional approval for what he did, that is all the law requires, period. I don't want to hear a damned word about lies either, when you defend the most prolific lier in our history.

American puppet congress is not the judge of the world for what is legal

Hey fuck wad, there were UN resolutions backing both congressional votes and the US didn't go it alone in either war. Fuck you and your propaganda.

 

[pvsi]

Damn, you say something good and turn around and lie your ass off, it must be really scary in your head. Bush had congressional approval for what he did, that is all the law requires, period. I don't want to hear a damned word about lies either, when you defend the most prolific lier in our history.

American puppet congress is not the judge of the world for what is legal

Hey fuck wad, there were UN resolutions backing both congressional votes and the US didn't go it alone in either war. Fuck you and your propaganda.

As a spokesman of the new world government I have much bigger authority than any degenerate UN consisting of old fart political prostitutes. And if I would have a status of a donor on this board, I would call you back an ass wipe, but I will refrain from using such language, since there is no need to state the obvious.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So let us see here the far left wants the US to become part of socialist Russia?

Where's socialist Russia when it's at home? Certainly not the Russia ruled by Putin.

 

[Avatar4321]

And with GWB you got not one but two illegal wars.

Damn, you say something good and turn around and lie your ass off, it must be really scary in your head. Bush had congressional approval for what he did, that is all the law requires, period. I don't want to hear a damned word about lies either, when you defend the most prolific lier in our history.

American puppet congress is not the judge of the world for what is legal

The Constitution is the highest law of the land. It gives Congress the authority to determine what wars are legal and which are not.

 

[occupied]

Well thank you for the kind advice occupied, but my belief in populism is at the core of my soul: you see, I am not buying into this whole notion created by the political pundits on the establishment media that masses of people are the ones who are electing all the stupid leaders today, I am convinced that they are merely manipulated against their will, and that once a real leader emerges, the masses will stand firmly behind that leader

Two things. Have you ever considered that people are manipulated with their full consent?

Also, the idea of a grand leader with the vast majority of America standing behind them should scare the fuck out of any freedom loving American, no bigger threat to freedom exists than a cult of personality.

1. Partially true: many have the deep down feeling that by being a part of the criminal industry that is American government, they benefit from the welfare state, but
2. Once the welfare state will collapse, what they fear will not matter, especially after a few years of brutal civil war and hunger, they will accept anything. It is the sort of thing that they can accept the easy way or the hard way, I am just a man who will continue speaking from my heart and soul what I believe deep down inside regardless if it is popular or not, because I do believe there is a higher power monitoring my every movement and that is NOT NSA.

Yikes, that number two is cringe inducing. Your visions of post apocalyptic fascist states will thankfully not come to pass. Things are not going to completely slide into lawless anarchy, America is better than that and you are selling us short.

 

[pvsi]

Damn, you say something good and turn around and lie your ass off, it must be really scary in your head. Bush had congressional approval for what he did, that is all the law requires, period. I don't want to hear a damned word about lies either, when you defend the most prolific lier in our history.

American puppet congress is not the judge of the world for what is legal

The Constitution is the highest law of the land. It gives Congress the authority to determine what wars are legal and which are not.

Tell that to Jesus

 

[dcraelin]

Gerrymandering has been around for a long time and been used by both parties. It is not against the law; but most consider it unethical. Well they consider it unethical if it works against them. We have a situation where at least a half of voters are not represented in Congress and I find it odd that this has not been a subject for discussion. We have elected a President that did not have a majority vote and that is wrong.
When a person is elected to Congress who do the represent? The people that voted for them or all people from their area? We don't have a Congress which puts the good of the nation first; but the party. The People are at the bottom of their lists.
Shall we look at some problems:
Medicare: Joint replacement is great, it can make you feel like your 18 again. Well you may be 70 or 80. Medicare should allow a maximum of 1 set of replacements how many seniors are on their 3rd set. Aging is a process we all usually experience, the cost second or third or fourth set should not be allowed.
I had considered having my knees replaced; but found that in order to have any major effect the hips and back would also need work. At 78 I decided against it as I can see several years of recovery being required. I accept that I now can't do the things I once did because I'm old. We must accept the fact that age we are not going to be 18 forever.
I really feel sorry for those who think it is their right to have both knees replaced, both hips replaced, a penis implant and take the purple pill so they can be as they were 6 decades ago. I wonder how many of the Tea Party has had that stuff done at least once and then complains about welfare?
You want fairness? Require honesty and ethics from our politicians; but first make sure you have it yourself.

now there's an attitude I can appreciate - an honest criticism without party influence.
both major parties are just two sides of the same valueless coin. an Article V convention awaits for these types of people. it is time "we the people" require our government to work as the employees they are instead of acting like they are our employers.

I think Gerrymandering is actually illegal under the Constitution as,even under widely varying definitions of Republicanism, Gerrymandering screws up the representative system.

Like idea of Article V convention.

There is no political mechanism for a National Referendum. Too much Democracy for the Founding Pappa's.

See above...Article V mechanism is available, as is just having enough voters making this a concern with their lawmakers.

In "real" elections, the GOP wouldn't have a chance.

Correct, neither the democrats as the poll in my video clearly indicates.

Well if you look at the UK where there is FPTP or basically a similar system for voting in MPs to Congressmen and woman, it is a three party system.

Where PR happens, in EU elections, UKIP do much better than in FPTP where they lose a lot of supporters. This is in part because people don't take EU elections seriously and will vote anyone, but it's also because they vote tactically, and not based on preference.

However in Germany, a country with PR/FPTP mix, where PR decides the make up of parliament, more or less, there are usually about 4 or 5 parties, with two left and two right wing parties who often form either a right or left wing coalition that involves dialogue in politics, as opposed to what happens in congress, which is just a massive mess.

proportional representation would I think be an improvement...at least in the house of reps.

There is no political mechanism for a National Referendum. Too much Democracy for the Founding Pappa's.

At the time referenda weren't something that happened. It was too far ahead even for the Founding Fathers.

No, Article V really outlines what amounts to a National Initiative and referendum option. Also I would say the founding fathers envisioned a system where the house would have about one rep per 50,000 people. It is now about one in 700,000 I think.

 

[frigidweirdo]

proportional representation would I think be an improvement...at least in the house of reps.

I think for the presidency it would add more weight to legitimacy too. Would also put forward individuals more, as they would be far more likely to get somewhere, rather than having to be dem or rep nominees

 

[BlindBoo]

Damn, you say something good and turn around and lie your ass off, it must be really scary in your head. Bush had congressional approval for what he did, that is all the law requires, period. I don't want to hear a damned word about lies either, when you defend the most prolific lier in our history.

American puppet congress is not the judge of the world for what is legal

Hey fuck wad, there were UN resolutions backing both congressional votes and the US didn't go it alone in either war. Fuck you and your propaganda.

There was no UN resolution that authorize the use of force to remove Saddam from Power. The only UNSC resolution that was in effect was 1441 and it had no such authorization. Accord to the President of the UN at the time the invasion and occupation was illegal. Correction: Sec. General of the UN not President.......

 

[BlindBoo]

Damn, you say something good and turn around and lie your ass off, it must be really scary in your head. Bush had congressional approval for what he did, that is all the law requires, period. I don't want to hear a damned word about lies either, when you defend the most prolific lier in our history.

American puppet congress is not the judge of the world for what is legal

The Constitution is the highest law of the land. It gives Congress the authority to determine what wars are legal and which are not.

Congress set two criteria for the President. Neither of which were satisfied. Saddam/Iraq did not pose a threat to the United States. Saddam/Iraq was not part of the 911 plot. Next to Bush, Congress shoulders much of the blame.

 

[frigidweirdo]

There was no UN resolution that authorize the use of force to remove Saddam from Power. The only UNSC resolution that was in effect was 1441 and it had no such authorization. Accord to the President of the UN at the time the invasion and occupation was illegal. Correction: Sec. General of the UN not President.......

When people have been duped, they find it easier to pretend they haven't, than to admit.

WMD discovered? No. They found radioactive material, but no weapons. Does it matter? Not really. It's a matter of what Bush knew when he decided to go in. He didn't know anything really, and didn't have any evidence to back him up. But he knew he didn't need evidence, he just needed to pretend that he did.

 

[dcraelin]

proportional representation would I think be an improvement...at least in the house of reps.

I think for the presidency it would add more weight to legitimacy too. Would also put forward individuals more, as they would be far more likely to get somewhere, rather than having to be dem or rep nominees

I dont see what you mean....

hard to work that system for one-man office like presidency

 

[BlindBoo]

There was no UN resolution that authorize the use of force to remove Saddam from Power. The only UNSC resolution that was in effect was 1441 and it had no such authorization. Accord to the President of the UN at the time the invasion and occupation was illegal. Correction: Sec. General of the UN not President.......

When people have been duped, they find it easier to pretend they haven't, than to admit.

WMD discovered? No. They found radioactive material, but no weapons. Does it matter? Not really. It's a matter of what Bush knew when he decided to go in. He didn't know anything really, and didn't have any evidence to back him up. But he knew he didn't need evidence, he just needed to pretend that he did.

The 550 tonnes of Uranium ore was not found because it was never lost. That had been in Iraq since the French build Reactor was blown up by the Israelis. They did find some old ordinance with chemicals that were produced when Ronnie Raygun was supporting Saddam. No newly manufactured chemical or biological weapons were ever found after we invaded.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I dont see what you mean....

hard to work that system for one-man office like presidency

Actually it's pretty simple.

There are various different ways this sort of thing can happen.

1) like the French, you have a run off if no one gets 50%
2) You do something like AV (Alternative voting). You basically put numbers down. So like 1 for your first choice, you can choose to put a 2 for your second choice and 3 for your third choice. So they count the votes up, the eliminate those with the least amount of votes, then those who voted this losing candidate get their votes counted with their 2nd choice.
3) There's also other options, such as requiring candidates to get so much support before they can enter the race.

It can easily work.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Our votes don't mean anything anymore. Maybe they never did but gerrymandering, vote theft, vote buying has put an end to honest elections in the US.

That is toothpaste that we will probably never get shoved back in the tube.