On That End Of Life Clause

[Oldandtired]

and that is exactly the situation.

And the exact reason why most americans are for reform.

Create pure competition...that will ALWAYS lower the prices.

Eliminate an insurers right to drop someone based on claim size.\

Eliminate the need to disclose pre-exisiting conditions....assuming you were insured prior to opting for a new plan....

It is not too difficult to make it cheaper and fairer.

but they'd rather socialize.

Ya think?

 

[elvis]

The idea of being hooked up to machines, in pain, and unable to die is terrifying.

You know that a Republican Lt. Col. told the family of Pat Tillman that if they weren't athiests, they wouldn't feel so bad about him being dead.

That's why I'm surprised now that Republicans are so afraid to die. Won't they being going to "heaven"? They can see their magical God.

did you get that from Olbermann? did he tell you to say that?

 

[Truthmatters]

How is allowing the current companies to compete accrossed state lines going to end there ability to drop who the fuck they want to drop when they start costing the insurance company to much?

Dont you guys realize they will collude with each other to keep the prices high?

Sure...that makes sense. Hundreds of insurance companies and NOT ONE will deviate form such collussion in an attempt to corner the market.

As for dropping people...THAT is what government regulation is about.

Where were you schooled? Do you know anything about how pure competition works?

Your naivety is pathetic.

Hundereds of insurance cos?

Tell me how many insurance companies there are in the US?

The republicans will vote against any healthcare reform, they have already made that clear.

 

[rightwinger]

The Death Panels are being manned by the Republicans

They have opposed every significant healthcare reform in my lifetime. To republicans healthcare is a benefit of those who can afford it. Those who can't afford it are denied treatment by the republican Death Panel

 

[elvis]

How is allowing the current companies to compete accrossed state lines going to end there ability to drop who the fuck they want to drop when they start costing the insurance company to much?

Dont you guys realize they will collude with each other to keep the prices high?

Sure...that makes sense. Hundreds of insurance companies and NOT ONE will deviate form such collussion in an attempt to corner the market.

As for dropping people...THAT is what government regulation is about.

Where were you schooled? Do you know anything about how pure competition works?

Your naivety is pathetic.

Hundereds of insurance cos?

Tell me how many insurance companies there are in the US?

The republicans will vote against any healthcare reform, they have already made that clear.

No. They are voting against your Ossiah's healthcare reform.

 

[Luissa]

Do not get me wrong. We DO need reform. That is not the issue.

We have the BEST healthcare in the world but yes, by far not the best system.

So why not simply open state lines to allow pure competition that ALWAYS results in lower prices....set regulations that forbid the dropping of anyone based on health issues that arise..and eliminate the "pre-exisitng condition" crap....and as for those that lose their jobs, COBRA is working fine....but the cost will be lower once the overall industry lowers the prices of premiums when puyre competiton comes into play.

Why a "public option"? What will it do but cost Americans over a trillion dollars?

we do not have the best health care in the world, we are ranked 37th actually. France has the number one health care in the world with private and public health care.

depends on what you mean by best care.

and wow! they don't deny their cancer patients care because they can't afford it.

France has made an unusual guarantee that every cancer patient can get any drug, including the most expensive and even experimental ones that are still being tested, says Dr. Fabian Calvo, deputy director of France's National Cancer Institute. This kind of access is why the French — unlike Americans — say they are highly satisfied with their health care system, he says.
"It's a feeling of safety — that if you have

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

 

[elvis]

The Death Panels are being manned by the Republicans

They have opposed every significant healthcare reform in my lifetime. To republicans healthcare is a benefit of those who can afford it. Those who can't afford it are denied treatment by the republican Death Panel

To people like you, anyone who opposes socialism and government handouts is an executioner.

 

[Oldandtired]

How is allowing the current companies to compete accrossed state lines going to end there ability to drop who the fuck they want to drop when they start costing the insurance company to much?

Dont you guys realize they will collude with each other to keep the prices high?

Sure...that makes sense. Hundreds of insurance companies and NOT ONE will deviate form such collussion in an attempt to corner the market.

As for dropping people...THAT is what government regulation is about.

Where were you schooled? Do you know anything about how pure competition works?

Your naivety is pathetic.

Hundereds of insurance cos?

Tell me how many insurance companies there are in the US?

The republicans will vote against any healthcare reform, they have already made that clear.

There are 50 states.....and most have at least 2.....OK?

WHere did you hear that they are against healthcare reform? I have not yet hear one republican or Independant say he was against healthcare reform....can you name ONE?

You never answered my question of earlier...so I will try one last time...

Obama wanted this out of congress by late July. It never made the deadline. WHy is that?

I know the answer....I know many of you do...I want to hear iut from Truthmatters.

 

[elvis]

we do not have the best health care in the world, we are ranked 37th actually. France has the number one health care in the world with private and public health care.

depends on what you mean by best care.

and wow! they don't deny their cancer patients care because they can't afford it.

France has made an unusual guarantee that every cancer patient can get any drug, including the most expensive and even experimental ones that are still being tested, says Dr. Fabian Calvo, deputy director of France's National Cancer Institute. This kind of access is why the French — unlike Americans — say they are highly satisfied with their health care system, he says.
"It's a feeling of safety — that if you have

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

That doesn't mean France has the best care. It means more people have access to the care they have.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Sits back and watches the war of uniformed talking points

 

[edthecynic]

I said page 800 or somewhere around there.

And perhaps it is not the word exempt....but the question came up at our townhall meeting and our rep who supports the bill said that the only reason the clasue is in there is because congress' plan is identical to the public plan so there is no reason to allow congress members access to it.

And yes, we threw a fit over that answer...and yes...the fit was televised on our local news...but not the question and not the answer....just the lot of us screaming "answer the question"......

Well, if YOU read the bill you'd know exactly where it was and exactly what words were used.

But you let GOP liars read it for you and you let those same liars change the wording because you want to believe their lies and you are too lazy to think or research for yourself. You probably didn't even download the PDF of the bill to search for yourself.

But you know for sure what's in the bill and what's hype.

 

[Oldandtired]

Sits back and watches the war of uniformed talking points

You do not need to agree with me.....and there are many times I am wrong and will admit it as those who know me from Hannity will tell you.

But uninformed? I have done all I can to inform myself on this healthcare debate...

I have eliminated many talking points from my debate that have been debunked by my research.

 

[Luissa]

We have the best healthcare in the world.....we do NOT implement it as well as we could and that is why reform is necessary.....but as for our doctors and nurses...they are as well educated and trained as any in the world....if not better.

and that is exactly the situation.

And the exact reason why most americans are for reform.

Create pure competition...that will ALWAYS lower the prices.

Eliminate an insurers right to drop someone based on claim size.\

Eliminate the need to disclose pre-exisiting conditions....assuming you were insured prior to opting for a new plan....

It is not too difficult to make it cheaper and fairer.

geez that is what they did in france. Yes doctor's don't make as much but they don't have to extreme amount of malpractice insurance the way we do in this country. And with everyone insured and the small amount they have to pay for insurance they are able to keep their cost down. And some people still pay a small amount for their private insurance with their employer and the government picking up the rest. And if you say diagnosed with end stage cancer guess what you don't have to pay. and the French don't think they have socialized medicine and are offended if you say they do.
And speaking of employers paying more medical, they tax their corporations less then we do.

 

[Annie]

I'm NOT finding a Congressional exemption, saw links to it to sec 3116, but can't find that section. Considering the numbering, probably redacted.

In any case, the congressional plans do not sound anything like HR3200:

Ask the Advisor: Congressional Health Care Benefits, the Rolls Royce of Health Plans?

 

[Oldandtired]

I said page 800 or somewhere around there.

And perhaps it is not the word exempt....but the question came up at our townhall meeting and our rep who supports the bill said that the only reason the clasue is in there is because congress' plan is identical to the public plan so there is no reason to allow congress members access to it.

And yes, we threw a fit over that answer...and yes...the fit was televised on our local news...but not the question and not the answer....just the lot of us screaming "answer the question"......

Well, if YOU read the bill you'd know exactly where it was and exactly what words were used.

But you let GOP liars read it for you and you let those same liars change the wording because you want to believe their lies and you are too lazy to think or research for yourself. You probably didn't even download the PDF of the bill to search for yourself.

But you know for sure what's in the bill and what's hype.

Excuse me...the bill is over 1000 pages long. Sorry for not memorizing pages....and no...I di not read every word on every page...

And you have resorted to calling me a liar.....so you are now irereleveant to me as such tactics are not debating tactics and I am on here to debate and to learn.

So long fella.....And judging by your "cut and paste" posts....You add very little to this place anyway.

 

[Neser Boha]

Sits back and watches the war of uniformed talking points

That's pretty much how I've been feeling about this whole 'debate'... In most cases it doesn't even seem as a debate to me ... also the reason why I've largely stayed out of it. And will continue to do so.

Do carry on, people. It's mighty entertaining.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Of course it was ambiguous. If it wasn't, there wouldn't have been any hoohaa over it. And if it wasn't, then why did they cave and take it out? Why didn't they simplify the language but keep the provision?

Who the fuck cares what Rush thinks.

There is nothing ambiguous in what I posted directly from the bill or you would have highlighted the ambiguity.

And it was dropped because the GOP smear machine is just too good at manipulating mindless drones like you.

So why didn't they just revise the language, simplify it and keep the provision?

That section of the bill also contains this:

‘(A) IN GENERAL- For purposes of reporting data on quality measures for covered professional services furnished during 2011 and any subsequent year, to the extent that measures are available, the Secretary shall include quality measures on end of life care and advanced care planning that have been adopted or endorsed by a consensus-based organization, if appropriate. Such measures shall measure both the creation of and adherence to orders for life-sustaining treatment.

Who makes up this 'consensus-based organization'? I asked this in another thread and someone provided this answer:

Thats answered in section 122:

“Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.” This will be chaired by the Surgeon General and will have “9 members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are appointed by the President”, “9 members who are not Federal employees or officers and who are appointed by the Comptroller General”, and an “even number of members (not to exceed 8 ) who are Federal employees and officers, as the President may appoint.” A committe with up to 27 members, 18 of whom are picked by the President. The bill says these people will “reflect providers, consumer representatives, employers, labor, health insurance issuers, experts in health care financing and delivery, experts in racial and ethnic disparities, experts in care for those with disabilities, representatives of relevant governmental agencies, and at least one practicing physician or other health professional and an expert on children’s health”. But with no checks and balances on the selection of this group, you can only hope that absolute power does not corrupt absolutely.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...-of-life-council-euthenasia-talk-origins.html

More 'czars' making the decisions of what benefits are covered and they are appointed with no checks and balances . . . . and you wonder why people put up the flags?

 

[Luissa]

depends on what you mean by best care.

and wow! they don't deny their cancer patients care because they can't afford it.

France has made an unusual guarantee that every cancer patient can get any drug, including the most expensive and even experimental ones that are still being tested, says Dr. Fabian Calvo, deputy director of France's National Cancer Institute. This kind of access is why the French — unlike Americans — say they are highly satisfied with their health care system, he says.
"It's a feeling of safety — that if you have

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

That doesn't mean France has the best care. It means more people have access to the care they have.

they have a lower infant death rate, lower rate of dying from heart diseas, diabetes, and cancer. They also have longer average life span. I would say they are providing the best care.
They pretty much rate higher then us on everything.
If you had a baby they provide someone to come into the house twice a week for four hours to help around the house. When I first had my son do you know how much that would have meant to me.

 

[Truthmatters]

depends on what you mean by best care.

and wow! they don't deny their cancer patients care because they can't afford it.

France has made an unusual guarantee that every cancer patient can get any drug, including the most expensive and even experimental ones that are still being tested, says Dr. Fabian Calvo, deputy director of France's National Cancer Institute. This kind of access is why the French — unlike Americans — say they are highly satisfied with their health care system, he says.
"It's a feeling of safety — that if you have

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

That doesn't mean France has the best care. It means more people have access to the care they have.

They have better health results, their people are healthier and live longer. BTW it also costs them less.

 

[Oldandtired]

and wow! they don't deny their cancer patients care because they can't afford it.

France has made an unusual guarantee that every cancer patient can get any drug, including the most expensive and even experimental ones that are still being tested, says Dr. Fabian Calvo, deputy director of France's National Cancer Institute. This kind of access is why the French — unlike Americans — say they are highly satisfied with their health care system, he says.
"It's a feeling of safety — that if you have

Health Care Lessons From France : NPR

That doesn't mean France has the best care. It means more people have access to the care they have.

They have better health results, their people are healthier and live longer. BTW it also costs them less.

So go move there. Property values will go up for the rest of us if you do!