On That End Of Life Clause

[Coyote]

Why do you persist in beliving lies that have been soundly disproven?

Why do you just complain about spelling and topics, but never care for your own? Why do you hate the elderly and helpless? Why keep lying?

The only lie so far is the claim that there are "death panels".

 

[Annie]

Why does the left hate Americans, especially the old, young, and handicapped? Why do they lie, the way most of us breathe?

the better question is why do the left attack you each time you broach the subject.. it's not like they have facts to dispute what you are suggesting. All they and their leaders can do is say it is a like.. then they removed the "lie" from their legislation. They cannot or will not explain the 500 billion dollar proposed cuts to medicare and name who the cuts would affect, they cannot or will not explain the two eugenicists czars, and finally they cannot or will not explain the voting down of the Heller amendment.

Actually that was sort of one of the 'welcome back' posts regarding TM.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'm confused on the whole 'end-of-life' stuff in the bill(s).

If all that wording was just to make sure that end-of-life counseling was paid for, why did they completely remove the provision? Why didn't they just reword it in simple, non-ambiguous language?

 

[Oldandtired]

What the fuck do you think happens right now when insurance cos call things experimental and dont cover them for people who have paid the cos thousands for decades?


People are dumped from the contracts for getting sick so the insure cos can have 400% profit.

Now go look at the other countries who have the best healthcare in the world ......what kind do they have?

Do not get me wrong. We DO need reform. That is not the issue.

We have the BEST healthcare in the world but yes, by far not the best system.

So why not simply open state lines to allow pure competition that ALWAYS results in lower prices....set regulations that forbid the dropping of anyone based on health issues that arise..and eliminate the "pre-exisitng condition" crap....and as for those that lose their jobs, COBRA is working fine....but the cost will be lower once the overall industry lowers the prices of premiums when puyre competiton comes into play.

Why a "public option"? What will it do but cost Americans over a trillion dollars?

The same companies will still be running the show huh?

The public option allows the American people to have the choices they wish to have. Hey if you dont like the public option dont join. I and many other Americans want it. You dont get to deside we should not have the choice.

The money you are so concerned with is already bleeding to the corps to give them 400% profit. With the public option the Money the corps are now getting from me will go to the public option instead.not a penny will go to profit. that makes my choice much cheaper. Think how much we waste lining the pockets of wealthy men.

Seeing as you reverted back to talking points, it is clear you have not spent the time reading ANY of HR3200.....I suggest you do.

Debating with you until you do is futile...as your points are so inaccurate, we will never be able to have a fair debate.

Read the bill my friend...I did.

LOL...If I dont like the public option, dont join.....Please....read the bill. If I fart, I am forced to join.

How can someone who has not read the bill debate the bill? It makes you look moronic.

 

[Oldandtired]

I'm confused on the whole 'end-of-life' stuff in the bill(s).

If all that wording was just to make sure that end-of-life counseling was paid for, why did they completely remove the provision? Why didn't they just reword it in simple, non-ambiguous language?

Because the ambiguous language left the door open in the case of an emergency and rationing had to take place.

Without the ambiguous language, it is nothing but the same as things are now....

So they took it out.

 

[Annie]

Do not get me wrong. We DO need reform. That is not the issue.

We have the BEST healthcare in the world but yes, by far not the best system.

So why not simply open state lines to allow pure competition that ALWAYS results in lower prices....set regulations that forbid the dropping of anyone based on health issues that arise..and eliminate the "pre-exisitng condition" crap....and as for those that lose their jobs, COBRA is working fine....but the cost will be lower once the overall industry lowers the prices of premiums when puyre competiton comes into play.

Why a "public option"? What will it do but cost Americans over a trillion dollars?

The same companies will still be running the show huh?

The public option allows the American people to have the choices they wish to have. Hey if you dont like the public option dont join. I and many other Americans want it. You dont get to deside we should not have the choice.

The money you are so concerned with is already bleeding to the corps to give them 400% profit. With the public option the Money the corps are now getting from me will go to the public option instead.not a penny will go to profit. that makes my choice much cheaper. Think how much we waste lining the pockets of wealthy men.

Seeing as you reverted back to talking points, it is clear you have not spent the time reading ANY of HR3200.....I suggest you do.

Debating with you until you do is futile...as your points are so inaccurate, we will never be able to have a fair debate.

Read the bill my friend...I did.

LOL...If I dont like the public option, dont join.....Please....read the bill. If I fart, I am forced to join.

How can someone who has not read the bill debate the bill? It makes you look moronic.

She reads nothing, including any links she throws up perhaps twice a month. It's an exercise in futility. Best ignored, but hard not to look and see what thing or will come next.

 

[Truthmatters]

Do not get me wrong. We DO need reform. That is not the issue.

We have the BEST healthcare in the world but yes, by far not the best system.

So why not simply open state lines to allow pure competition that ALWAYS results in lower prices....set regulations that forbid the dropping of anyone based on health issues that arise..and eliminate the "pre-exisitng condition" crap....and as for those that lose their jobs, COBRA is working fine....but the cost will be lower once the overall industry lowers the prices of premiums when puyre competiton comes into play.

Why a "public option"? What will it do but cost Americans over a trillion dollars?

The same companies will still be running the show huh?

The public option allows the American people to have the choices they wish to have. Hey if you dont like the public option dont join. I and many other Americans want it. You dont get to deside we should not have the choice.

The money you are so concerned with is already bleeding to the corps to give them 400% profit. With the public option the Money the corps are now getting from me will go to the public option instead.not a penny will go to profit. that makes my choice much cheaper. Think how much we waste lining the pockets of wealthy men.

Seeing as you reverted back to talking points, it is clear you have not spent the time reading ANY of HR3200.....I suggest you do.

Debating with you until you do is futile...as your points are so inaccurate, we will never be able to have a fair debate.

Read the bill my friend...I did.

LOL...If I dont like the public option, dont join.....Please....read the bill. If I fart, I am forced to join.

How can someone who has not read the bill debate the bill? It makes you look moronic.

Please go get the quote from the bill that states "if you fart you must sign up for the public option"?

 

[edthecynic]

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."
Pamphlet so you can see for yourself:

http://www.rihlp.org/pubs/Your_life_your_choices.pdf

A perfect example of just how CON$ lie by telling just enough truth and then shutting up. The so called "push poll" actually gives you more choices than the one the dishonest CON$ say is "pushed." 4 choices in fact.

From Pg 21:

Life like this would be:

1 - difficult but acceptable

2 - worth living, but just barely

3 - not worth living

4 - can't answer now

The best liar is he who makes the smallest amount of lying go the longest way.
Samuel Butler

 

[cunclusion]

Thing is this if they do drop the barriers of insurance companies compteting across state lines wonder what will really happen. You think BCBS is powerful now just imagine if they can work with all their sister affliates across the freaking country it could get FUBAR before we even no it. But this only takes care of one side need to lower the issue with unneccessary operations, use of diagnostic tools that do not diagnose the issue correctly or not used for the type of diagnosis. Of course the denying of coverage based on past or current health issues.

Also advocate ways to stay out of the hospital, push for more clinics with a RN with some LPN for support for less serious illnesses and push for more PHN in communities that have less access to medical facilities. Some of this is already done but expanding this would help cut the visits to the hospitals and let them focus on more serious illnesses.

 

[Truthmatters]

Old and tired seems to have expired?

 

[edthecynic]

The only difference is now Medicare doctors would be paid to perform this service.

Death panels, my ass.

ANNIE NEVER MENTIONED DEATH PANELS Straw man alert

Why do Republicans hate the elderly? I've never actually understood this.

I love ravi's sarcastic posts

Facts elude the right.

There are no fucking death panels you rock brains.

ANNIE NEVER MENTIONED DEATH PANELS Straw man alert

Why do you persist in believing lies that have been soundly disprove?

ANNIE NEVER MENTIONED DEATH PANELS Straw man alert

And there are End Of Life measures in hr3200 section 1233....go do a google and read the TEXT of the bill not someone's interpretation. It DOES NOT say death panels but does have end of life counseling.

Straw Man alert. HR 3200 Section 1233 or any other Section never mentions "End of Life." Straw Man alert.

The actual words from the bill are, "orders for life sustaining treatment."

 

[Oldandtired]

The same companies will still be running the show huh?

The public option allows the American people to have the choices they wish to have. Hey if you dont like the public option dont join. I and many other Americans want it. You dont get to deside we should not have the choice.

The money you are so concerned with is already bleeding to the corps to give them 400% profit. With the public option the Money the corps are now getting from me will go to the public option instead.not a penny will go to profit. that makes my choice much cheaper. Think how much we waste lining the pockets of wealthy men.

Seeing as you reverted back to talking points, it is clear you have not spent the time reading ANY of HR3200.....I suggest you do.

Debating with you until you do is futile...as your points are so inaccurate, we will never be able to have a fair debate.

Read the bill my friend...I did.

LOL...If I dont like the public option, dont join.....Please....read the bill. If I fart, I am forced to join.

How can someone who has not read the bill debate the bill? It makes you look moronic.

Please go get the quote from the bill that states "if you fart you must sign up for the public option"?

LMAO...you nailed me.

Truth is, there are many reasons written into the bill that will force one to go to the public option. For example...and please dont make me cite page and paragraph...but I am sure you have heard this already....if you are forced to change anything abouyt your coverage, you are forced into the public option. My concern...does that mean adding a child? Does it mean "lose your job"? DOes it mean "get divorced and go to single coverage?

Secondly....basic business logic.......you have a company that is non profit and not concerned about LOSSES thanks to unlimited capital competing with a company that MUST make a profit to support its share holders, the profitable company will fail. Yes...I know...fed ex.....but lets be real here...if the USPS was a reliable company, fed ex would never have had a reason to go into business as it could not have competed with 12 cents postage....but fed ex KNEW that in buisiness, people preferred reliability and guranteed delivery times over "taking a chance" as things in business are often time sensitive.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I'm confused on the whole 'end-of-life' stuff in the bill(s).

If all that wording was just to make sure that end-of-life counseling was paid for, why did they completely remove the provision? Why didn't they just reword it in simple, non-ambiguous language?

Because the ambiguous language left the door open in the case of an emergency and rationing had to take place.

Without the ambiguous language, it is nothing but the same as things are now....

So they took it out.

Shhh, I was hoping the left would answer this one.

 

[Oldandtired]

Old and tired seems to have expired?

I was on the phone with a client.
Sorry I dont move as quickly as you.

 

[Truthmatters]

facts dont much matter to those who oppose this bill.

The profits they will lose if there is a public option are all that matter to them.

It still amazes me they fools they can gather to do their bidding.

 

[Annie]

facts dont much matter to those who oppose this bill.

The profits they will lose if there is a public option are all that matter to them.

It still amazes me they fools they can gather to do their bidding.

What do you think of the IRS clause, you know, sec 401? You don't think that will create some problems for you?

 

[Oldandtired]

Thing is this if they do drop the barriers of insurance companies compteting across state lines wonder what will really happen. You think BCBS is powerful now just imagine if they can work with all their sister affliates across the freaking country it could get FUBAR before we even no it. But this only takes care of one side need to lower the issue with unneccessary operations, use of diagnostic tools that do not diagnose the issue correctly or not used for the type of diagnosis. Of course the denying of coverage based on past or current health issues.

Also advocate ways to stay out of the hospital, push for more clinics with a RN with some LPN for support for less serious illnesses and push for more PHN in communities that have less access to medical facilities. Some of this is already done but expanding this would help cut the visits to the hospitals and let them focus on more serious illnesses.

That is where government regulation can play a role.

Government does not need to own to regulate.

Government is not supposed to own.

 

[Oldandtired]

facts dont much matter to those who oppose this bill.

The profits they will lose if there is a public option are all that matter to them.

It still amazes me they fools they can gather to do their bidding.

Why is THIS bill the only thing YOU are for?

Or are you one that deemed it best to believe that those that oppose simply want the status quo?

Or perhaps YOU are one who deemed it best to believe that no one else presented ideas?

Well, the truth is...booth of those are talking points put out there for the naive and gullible to believe.

Are you naive and gullible?

 

[Truthmatters]

a public insurace option is not ownership of the healthcare system.

 

[Truthmatters]

Go look at the Rs who are against this bill.

what is their realtionship to the insurance cos?