On Assignment with Richard Engel: "Our House" - Trump's Last Stand

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Harry S. Truman's Plain Speaking

Collection of anecdotes about honesty includes real quotes from President Harry S. Truman.

www.snopes.com

How the Government Weaponizes Surveillance to Silence Its Critics​

How the Government Weaponizes Surveillance to Silence Its Critics

John & Nisha Whitehead “Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive me…

off-guardian.org

". . . What these add up to is a world in which, on any given day, the average person is now monitored, surveilled, spied on and tracked in more than 20 different ways by both government and corporate eyes and ears.

Consider just a small sampling of the ways in which the government is weaponizing its 360 degree surveillance technologies to flag you as a threat to national security, whether or not you’ve done anything wrong.

Flagging you as a danger based on your feelings. Customs and Border Protection is reportedly using an artificial intelligence surveillance program that can detect “sentiment and emotion” in social media posts in order to identify travelers who may be “a threat to public safety, national security, or lawful trade and travel.”

Flagging you as a danger based on your phone and movements. Cell phones have become de facto snitches, offering up a steady stream of digital location data on users’ movements and travels. For instance, the FBI was able to use geofence data to identify more than 5,000 mobile devices (and their owners) in a 4-acre area around the Capitol on January 6. This latest surveillance tactic could land you in jail for being in the “wrong place and time.” Police are also using cell-site simulators to carry out mass surveillance of protests without the need for a warrant. Moreover, federal agents can now employ a number of hacking methods in order to gain access to your computer activities and “see” whatever you’re seeing on your monitor. Malicious hacking software can also be used to remotely activate cameras and microphones, offering another means of glimpsing into the personal business of a target. . . ."

So this is all old news, why do you think I went into digital forensics and cybersecurity?

And from my perspective, while we were the only ones on the receiving end of all of this, it was fine, it was just and what was needed for everyone to "feel safe" even if nobody actually "is safe", and my favorite "well if you aren't doing anything wrong what do you have to hide".

You're supposed to be ready to possibly be arrested, or have police dogs set upon you, or to be doused with high pressure fire hoses if you're going to protest your treatment at the hands of government. What is wrong with any of you if you think you're supposed to just waltz in after having assaulted and pepper-sprayed and every capitol police officer that attempted to hold back the crowd and then just go home?

The first rule of protesting: know what laws you will be in violation of, understand the consequences for their violation and then decide if it's worth it to you to have the worse case scenario occur if things go sideways.

F'kg amateurs.

 

[rampart]

So this is all old news, why do you think I went into digital forensics and cybersecurity?

And from my perspective, while we were the only ones on the receiving end of all of this, it was fine, it was just and what was needed for everyone to "feel safe" even if nobody actually "is safe", and my favorite "well if you aren't doing anything wrong what do you have to hide".

You're supposed to be ready to possibly be arrested, or have police dogs set upon you, or to be doused with high pressure fire hoses if you're going to protest your treatment at the hands of government. What is wrong with any of you if you think you're supposed to just waltz in after having assaulted and pepper-sprayed and every capitol police officer that attempted to hold back the crowd and then just go home?

The first rule of protesting: know what laws you will be in violation of, understand the consequences for their violation and then decide if it's worth it to you to have the worse case scenario occur if things go sideways.

F'kg amateurs.

we read thoreau, " civil disobedience. " which he wrote from jail for protesting the mexican war. every action, even the right ones, have consequences.

reading would have ruined their high school experience.

 

[SweetSue92]

I find it somewhat disturbing that you as a teacher STILL do not understand the difference between criminals acting under cover of the legitimate Black Lives Matter protests, attacking buildings and other properties, and looting them of their valuables compared to attacking our seat of government while our representatives and vice president were in session and engaged in certifying the election results. The January 6th mob engaged in VIOLENT behavior in their attempt to disrupt the proceedings and to "stop the steal" in which they vocalized "we want Trump! We want Trump!".

The attack was wrong. That they entered the Capitol bldg was wrong. I'm not saying no one was in error or that no one should have been charged and prosecuted.

But we do not have a justice system that works like a fast food menu. What I mean is: you go to McDonald's, you get a hamburger, fries, a shake. The menu is clear and printed. And yes, our laws are clear and printed. But because there are always extenuating circumstances-and frankly, just circumstances--we don't just open a "menu" and say, okay, you did this, you get that punishment.

You get to make your case, with the idea that a judge and/or jury will decide the circumstances and then, punishment.

The J6 protestors hurt Elite feelings, that's what at issue here. BLM did not. And for that, J6 can rot in terrible prisons, being treated terribly, while BLM protestors are treated an entirely different way.

You and I can type all we want, but trust me, the American people can see our justice system and how defunct and corrupt it is.

 

[Moonglow]

The corruption is too damn high.

January 6 Protesters Tried To STOP Others From Breaching Capitol!​

(Undercover Video) Capitol Police Say They Were SET UP On January 6!​

Tucker: This video tells a different story of Jan 6​

Former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund says entire intelligence community missed signs of riot​

He penned a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others making his case.

Former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund says entire intelligence community missed signs of riot

He penned a letter to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and others making his case.

abcnews.go.com

Tucker Carlson - Ep. 15 - what actually happened on January 6th.​

​

Pawns get used.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

It seems to me that it's easy to forget that these are people who do love their country. They have been led to believe that their country is literally under attack, and they have been manipulated to interpret and process reality in a distorted way. They're full of misguided rage, and they have created an enemy that really doesn't exist. Comparing them to jihadis, then, is really not a stretch.

And Trump is the person who lied to them and led them to believe that their country is literally under attack ("you've gotta fight, you gotta fight like hell or you won't have a country anymore").

This is why Trump likes the "uneducated" because they are easy to lead around by their nose and manipulate however what do you expect the rest of us to do, just shut up and suffer because half of the country lacks critical thinking skills?

You all don't seem to understand that the discomfort and hardships, real or imagined is not anything new, it's just new to a certain segment of the population and that segment is used to a certain amount of privilege in their lives and they don't like it when they feel like they are not being treated fairly or equitably as anyone would. The difference however is that they are being treated the same way anyone else would considering there is no precedence for that day.

So now they have to deal with the same bullshit that many of the rest of us have had to deal with in our lives. The courts stamps its verdict, fair or unfair doesn't matter, because once it's a done deal now it's incumbent upon you to prove that the government didn't do things properly and that you shouldn't have to sit in prison for what was the max, 22 years?

That's how our system is setup - they were all presumed innocent until they took the plea deal or were adjudicated guilty.

The best way to avoid this, don't be a part of a mob, not because your cause isn't just, but because mobs are bad news since they can spiral out of control very quickly and whatever crimes one person commits as a part of the mob, all others can be charged with as well.

 

[rampart]

The attack was wrong. That they entered the Capitol bldg was wrong. I'm not saying no one was in error or that no one should have been charged and prosecuted.

But we do not have a justice system that works like a fast food menu. What I mean is: you go to McDonald's, you get a hamburger, fries, a shake. The menu is clear and printed. And yes, our laws are clear and printed. But because there are always extenuating circumstances-and frankly, just circumstances--we don't just open a "menu" and say, okay, you did this, you get that punishment.

You get to make your case, with the idea that a judge and/or jury will decide the circumstances and then, punishment.

The J6 protestors hurt Elite feelings, that's what at issue here. BLM did not. And for that, J6 can rot in terrible prisons, being treated terribly, while BLM protestors are treated an entirely different way.

You and I can type all we want, but trust me, the American people can see our justice system and how defunct and corrupt it is.

there is something to what you say about the "elite feelings, but the elite with the most butthurt feelz was the one throwing catsup at the big beautiful walls at the whuite house.

madoff might still be selling his ponzi scheme to the working class through their fund managers (as so many do), but he ran into trouble when he started on the actual upper class.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

The attack was wrong. That they entered the Capitol bldg was wrong. I'm not saying no one was in error or that no one should have been charged and prosecuted.

But we do not have a justice system that works like a fast food menu. What I mean is: you go to McDonald's, you get a hamburger, fries, a shake. The menu is clear and printed. And yes, our laws are clear and printed. But because there are always extenuating circumstances-and frankly, just circumstances--we don't just open a "menu" and say, okay, you did this, you get that punishment.

You get to make your case, with the idea that a judge and/or jury will decide the circumstances and then, punishment.

The J6 protestors hurt Elite feelings, that's what at issue here. BLM did not. And for that, J6 can rot in terrible prisons, being treated terribly, while BLM protestors are treated an entirely different way.

You and I can type all we want, but trust me, the American people can see our justice system and how defunct and corrupt it is.

Sue, from what I've read, there is no precedence for what they did, not in living memory or however you say it.

The Oath Keepers and Proud Boys got some of the longest sentences for being convicted of seditious conspiracy so I've been trying to find an example to put this into context but to the best that I can tell, none of the cases involved individuals attacking the seat of the United States government in an attempt to disrupt the lawful certification of the election results.

Here's one where several members of the Black Panthers were indicted and convicted however their conviction was ultimately overturned. And by the way, there was a case brought against some white supremacists that our government couldn't get a conviction on. This is per usual:

And in 1988, jurors in Fort Smith, Arkansas, acquitted white supremacists charged with seditious conspiracy. The defendants were accused of plotting to overthrow the federal government and establish an all-white nation in the Pacific Northwest, and conspiring to kill a federal judge and FBI agent​

Excerpt

a prominent historical example of a successful conviction for "seditious conspiracy" in the United States is the case of the "Chicago Seven" (originally the Chicago Eight). This case arose from protests and demonstrations during the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, which turned violent. The individuals involved were charged with various offenses, including seditious conspiracy.​

​

In 1969, eight activists, including Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, David Dellinger, John Froines, Lee Weiner, and Bobby Seale, were indicted for conspiring to incite riots during the convention. Bobby Seale's case was eventually separated from the others, making it the "Chicago Seven." The trial received significant attention and became a symbol of the anti-war and civil rights movements of the era.​

​

Ultimately, five of the Chicago Seven (Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, and David Dellinger) were convicted of crossing state lines with the intent to incite a riot, a charge related to seditious conspiracy. They were sentenced to various terms of imprisonment and fines. However, their convictions were later reversed on appeal.​

​

This case is an example of a high-profile instance in which individuals were charged with seditious conspiracy in the United States, although the convictions were not ultimately upheld on appeal. It remains a significant historical moment in the context of free speech and protest rights in the U.S.​

-OpenAI​

 

[MisterBeale]

if you aren't doing anything wrong what do you have to hide

Given your career choice? I can understand your bias, and your lack of understanding of the basic principles, civil rights and civil liberties that are baked into the cake, of what being an American really means?



You seem to be part of the problem, not the solution.

Why Your Privacy Matters, Even If You're Not

We've talked about why privacy matters in the internet age , but it's an ongoing battle . Glenn Greenwald—one of the first reporters to write about

lifehacker.com

". . . Edward Snowden remarked "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."[9] He considered claiming nothing to hide as giving up the right of privacy which the government has to protect. . . . "

Nothing to hide argument - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MisterBeale]

Pawns get used.

. .. and what do you want to bet, more black folks will vote for Biden, than Cornell West?



Pawns certainly DO get used.

 

[SweetSue92]

And Trump is the person who lied to them and led them to believe that their country is literally under attack ("you've gotta fight, you gotta fight like hell or you won't have a country anymore").

This is why Trump likes the "uneducated" because they are easy to lead around by their nose and manipulate however what do you expect the rest of us to do, just shut up and suffer because half of the country lacks critical thinking skills?

You all don't seem to understand that the discomfort and hardships, real or imagined is not anything new, it's just new to a certain segment of the population and that segment is used to a certain amount of privilege in their lives and they don't like it when they feel like they are not being treated fairly or equitably as anyone would. The difference however is that they are being treated the same way anyone else would considering there is no precedence for that day.

So now they have to deal with the same bullshit that many of the rest of us have had to deal with in our lives. The courts stamps its verdict, fair or unfair doesn't matter, because once it's a done deal now it's incumbent upon you to prove that the government didn't do things properly and that you shouldn't have to sit in prison for what was the max, 22 years?

That's how our system is setup - they were all presumed innocent until they took the plea deal or were adjudicated guilty.

The best way to avoid this, don't be a part of a mob, not because your cause isn't just, but because mobs are bad news since they can spiral out of control very quickly and whatever crimes one person commits as a part of the mob, all others can be charged with as well.

Mysterious.

So instead of saying, "yes, the system is corrupt and unfair and has been for years...." you're what, just happy the people you don't like were treated unfairly?

 

[SweetSue92]

Sue, from what I've read, there is no precedence for what they did, not in living memory or however you say it.

The Oath Keepers and Proud Boys got some of the longest sentences for being convicted of seditious conspiracy so I've been trying to find an example to put this into context but to the best that I can tell, none of the cases involved individuals attacking the seat of the United States government in an attempt to disrupt the lawful certification of the election results.

Here's one where several members of the Black Panthers were indicted and convicted however their conviction was ultimately overturned. And by the way, there was a case brought against some white supremacists that our government couldn't get a conviction on. This is per usual:

And in 1988, jurors in Fort Smith, Arkansas, acquitted white supremacists charged with seditious conspiracy. The defendants were accused of plotting to overthrow the federal government and establish an all-white nation in the Pacific Northwest, and conspiring to kill a federal judge and FBI agent​

Excerpt

​

a prominent historical example of a successful conviction for "seditious conspiracy" in the United States is the case of the "Chicago Seven" (originally the Chicago Eight). This case arose from protests and demonstrations during the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, which turned violent. The individuals involved were charged with various offenses, including seditious conspiracy.​

​

In 1969, eight activists, including Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, David Dellinger, John Froines, Lee Weiner, and Bobby Seale, were indicted for conspiring to incite riots during the convention. Bobby Seale's case was eventually separated from the others, making it the "Chicago Seven." The trial received significant attention and became a symbol of the anti-war and civil rights movements of the era.​

​

Ultimately, five of the Chicago Seven (Abbie Hoffman, Jerry Rubin, Tom Hayden, Rennie Davis, and David Dellinger) were convicted of crossing state lines with the intent to incite a riot, a charge related to seditious conspiracy. They were sentenced to various terms of imprisonment and fines. However, their convictions were later reversed on appeal.​

​

This case is an example of a high-profile instance in which individuals were charged with seditious conspiracy in the United States, although the convictions were not ultimately upheld on appeal. It remains a significant historical moment in the context of free speech and protest rights in the U.S.​

-OpenAI​

The convictions were overturned and you're comparing them to people who are going to rot in prison for decades because they "paraded"?

Are you kidding?

 

[SweetSue92]

there is something to what you say about the "elite feelings, but the elite with the most butthurt feelz was the one throwing catsup at the big beautiful walls at the whuite house.

madoff might still be selling his ponzi scheme to the working class through their fund managers (as so many do), but he ran into trouble when he started on the actual upper class.

Donald Trump might have a lot of money, but he's hated by the Elites who hate our country. I mean, the Country Formerly Known as America, of course.

 

[Kondor3]

They weren't tourists. They were protestors who became a mob who did things they shouldn't have.

NOTHING they did justified a decade or more in jail. The Capitol is not 'sacred ground', for the love of Pete. It's the people's house.

The worship of govt is both pathetic and sad. Oh, and evil.

Engage in an Insurrectionist assault upon Congress during certification of Electoral College results and you rot in jail.

Abandon the centuries-old sacred American tradition of a Peaceful Transfer of Power and you rot in jail.

Stupidly follow the crowd-inciting words of a traitorous Chief Executive and his minions and you rot in jail.

The long sentences were (a) legal and (b) appropriate and (c) righteous.

An example is being made of traitorous fools as an example to future generations who would illegally try to hold onto power.

Those January 6, 2021 MAGA scum were traitors to the People and the Republic and its Constitution... phukk 'em... let 'em rot.

 

[Clipper]

I look at that day as the end result of decades of manipulation. Hopefully the only one, hopefully that was the big one, but that's 50/50.

It seems to me that it's easy to forget that these are people who do love their country. They have been led to believe that their country is literally under attack, and they have been manipulated to interpret and process reality in a distorted way. They're full of misguided rage, and they have created an enemy that really doesn't exist. Comparing them to jihadis, then, is really not a stretch.

Looking at world history, it's very possible that this doesn't end well. But it's safe to say that this is the biggest test of our Constitution since the Civil War. Now it's on us.

I'm waiting for Democrats to grow a set & call out the Heritage Foundation who are bankrolling Trump's & his minions plot to dismantle Democracy in this Country. And I am appalled that Biden hasen't taken on Senate leadership for not calling out Tuberville for what he's doing to our military.

What the hell are they waiting for?

 

[rampart]

Engage in an Insurrectionist assault upon Congress during certification of Electoral College results and you rot in jail.

Abandon the centuries-old sacred American tradition of a Peaceful Transfer of Power and you rot in jail.

Stupidly follow the crowd-inciting words of a traitorous Chief Executive and his minions and you rot in jail.

The long sentences were (a) legal and (b) appropriate and (c) righteous.

An example is being made of traitorous fools as an example to future generations who would illegally try to hold onto power.

Those January 6, 2021 MAGA scum were traitors to the People and the Republic and its Constitution... phukk 'em... let 'em rot.

not enough of an example in my opinion.

and not reaching nearly high enough into the "war room"

bit other than that you are right on

 

[Moonglow]

. .. and what do you want to bet, more black folks will vote for Biden, than Cornell West?



Pawns certainly DO get used.

That is their choice.

 

[SweetSue92]

Engage in an Insurrectionist assault upon Congress during certification of Electoral College results and you rot in jail.

Abandon the centuries-old sacred American tradition of a Peaceful Transfer of Power and you rot in jail.

Stupidly follow the crowd-inciting words of a traitorous Chief Executive and his minions and you rot in jail.

The long sentences were (a) legal and (b) appropriate and (c) righteous.

An example is being made of traitorous fools as an example to future generations who would illegally try to hold onto power.

Those January 6, 2021 MAGA scum were traitors to the People and the Republic and its Constitution... phukk 'em... let 'em rot.

2 minutes of hate. we know

 

[Kondor3]

2 minutes of hate. we know

It only took Benedict Arnold 10 seconds to hand-over the note to Major Andre betraying the American position at West Point.

It only took Judas Iscariot 10 seconds to kiss Jesus and hand him over to the Romans and the Pharisee Guard in the Garden.

Oh, and, by the way, the Insurrectionist rioting lasted a lot longer than two minutes.

Not even a Nice Try.

No Sale.

 

[MisterBeale]

That is their choice.

Not really, pawns do what the propaganda issued forth from the palace tell them to do. . .

 

[Mac1958]

I'm waiting for Democrats to grow a set & call out the Heritage Foundation who are bankrolling Trump's & his minions plot to dismantle Democracy in this Country. And I am appalled that Biden hasen't taken on Senate leadership for not calling out Tuberville for what he's doing to our military.

What the hell are they waiting for?

Looking at this from a macro level, I think the Dems still don't know what to do about this whole thing. And after seven years of trying to understand it, I can't say that I blame them. There are plenty of REPUBLICANS who don't, either.

I don't think there is much the Dems can do to move the needle. That's my guess as to why they've been so... quiet.