Odessa shooter had previous contact with police, the FBI knew him, he failed gun background check

[Rustic]

Easy peasy.
There's no demonstrable necessity for the state to have on record the owner of every gun in the US; as such, the requirement that people register their guns is an unnecessary restriction - that is, an infringement - on their right to keep and bear arms.
The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

You saying there is no reason, does not make it so... and people having people register their guns does not infringe on anyone's rights to own them. Do you know what registration means?

Unless you can show that registering guns would reduce violent crime, it's none of you business or the government's business. In all of this discussion, Democrats are showing no interest in reducing violent crime and seem only interested in harassing gun owners.

Ok way to back pedal. First it violated your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, now it shouldn't be put into place unless it can be proven to work.

Yeah, if you cant prove it will work, we arent going to let you violate our 2nd Amendment rights. Whats so hard to understand?

You have to prove it is going to violate your 2nd Amendment rights, which I've asked you guys to show... and none of you can.

registration
noun
reg·is·tra·tion | \ ˌre-jə-ˈstrā-shən \
Definition of registration


1: the act of registering
2: an entry in a register
3: the number of individuals registered : ENROLLMENT
4a: the art or act of selecting and adjusting pipe organ stops
b: the combination of stops selected for performing a particular organ work
5: a document certifying an act of registering

Definition of REGISTRATION

register
noun (1)
reg·is·ter | \ ˈre-jə-stər \
Definition of register
(Entry 1 of 3)

1: a written record containing regular entries of items or details
2a: a book or system of public records
b: a roster of qualified or available individualsa civil service register
3: an entry in a register
4a: a set of organ pipes of like quality : STOP
b(1): the range of a human voice or a musical instrument
(2): a portion of such a range similarly produced or of the same quality
c: any of the varieties of a language that a speaker uses in a particular social context
5: a grille often with shutters for admitting heated air or for ventilation
6: REGISTRATION, REGISTRY
7a: an automatic device registering a number or a quantity
b: a number or quantity so registered
c: CASH REGISTER
8: a condition of correct alignment or proper relative position
9: a device (as in a computer) for storing small amounts of dataespecially : one in which data can be both stored and operated on

Definition of REGISTER

Okay, now show me where in there it says anything about taking away your right to bear arms. Have at it.

No one has the right other than the individual to know who owns what for firearm ownership that is why firearm on registration is unconstitutional. Dolt

 

[Rustic]

Guns are a Right, cars are not......governments throughout history have registered guns so they can be confiscated, and we have seen those same governments commit mass murder.....the vaunted Europeans murdered 12 million men, women and children after they confiscated guns.....

No, they murdered 12 million people because they had a war and there were too many guns floating about...

Wow... what a dummy.

12 mass public shootings in 2018...

Nope, it was 323... we've been over this.

Tell you what... since all your numbers are unadulterated NRA bullshit I'm going to ignore, how about not wasting my time with them.

Lol
This country is much bigger fish to fry, get your priorities straight. Bedwetter

 

[Rustic]

And you're ignorant to the core. Government is incompetent at best, and over bearing and controlling at worst.

The Founders wanted us to keep the government under control, and not the other way round.

Not allowing mentally ill people to buy guns in the parking lot of a store that refused to sell the whack job the gun in the first place isn’t the government controlling it’s people. It’s the government protecting the people.

Your paranoia is hilarious.

We already have laws for both...you dumb ass. There is no paranoia here, there is an understanding of history and human nature.......

So the guy selling the gun out of his trunk has to do a background check on the person buying it?

No, moron, not if it is his private property....... but the criminal knows that they can't buy, own or carry a gun, and when caught with the gun, can already be arrested and convicted for it.....we already have this covered.

12 mass public shootings in 2018...... 93 killed.

12 crazy people out of 320 million....

Knives kill over 1,500 people every year...

Bees, Wasps, Dogs, Lawn mowers kill more people every year than mass shooters do....

Do you want to ban dogs? Since they are deadlier than guns used in mass public shootings?

Afraid of Snakes? Wasps and Dogs Are Deadlier

Of the 1,610 people killed in encounters with animals between 2008 and 2015,

478 were killed by hornets, wasps and bees,

and 272 by dogs, according to a study published in Wilderness & Environmental Medicine. Snakes, spiders and scorpions were responsible for 99 deaths over the eight years.

Thanks for confirming you were lying earlier. We all knew it but it was good to hear you admit it.

So there is no law against mentally ill people to buy guns in the parking lot of a store that refused to sell the whack job the gun in the first place. Thanks for clearing that up. Hopefully you’ll try to be more honest in the future but we both know you’re not capable.

We need to close that loophole and do background checks on anyone buying a firearm.

It’s that simple.

I’m really perplexed at the burning desire you have to avoid background checks. It seems as though the only ones who would have a problem with someone else passing one is if they too were mentally incompetent and crazy.

There is no reason to perform background checks on private sales, it’s an nonstarter

 

[JoeB131]

Because the socialists, in particular hitler wanted control......you moron. But as the link states, the cost to actually occupying Switzerland with it's 435,000 armed citizens....who had actual military rifles ...... was too high to be effective...

Oh, the Germans had tanks and bombers... subduing Switzerland would have been as easy as subduing Poland, which had millions of armed citizens.

There was just no good reason to.

 

[westwall]

Because the socialists, in particular hitler wanted control......you moron. But as the link states, the cost to actually occupying Switzerland with it's 435,000 armed citizens....who had actual military rifles ...... was too high to be effective...

Oh, the Germans had tanks and bombers... subduing Switzerland would have been as easy as subduing Poland, which had millions of armed citizens.

There was just no good reason to.

Germany lost 800 tanks taking Poland. How many do you think they would have lost in Switzerland. Moron

 

[Lewdog]

He didn't attack Switzerland because of geographical reasons...

Wrong......I showed you the historian......

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS



That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"



The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.



The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.



Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.



While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

Wrong. They didn't attack Switzerland because of its geographic position and Switzerland put explosives on all the bridges, train lines, etc. You should read more history than just cut and pasting NRA talking points.

Dumb shit, that link is from F*****g PBS you moron.......PBS.........

Wow....they rigged the bridges with explosives......I guess the Germans didn't have engineers who might have known how to un rig the explosives....one thing the Germans aren't known for is their Engineers...right?

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

 

[2aguy]

Because the socialists, in particular hitler wanted control......you moron. But as the link states, the cost to actually occupying Switzerland with it's 435,000 armed citizens....who had actual military rifles ...... was too high to be effective...

Oh, the Germans had tanks and bombers... subduing Switzerland would have been as easy as subduing Poland, which had millions of armed citizens.

There was just no good reason to.

Rolling tanks in isn't the issue, dumb ass.....dealing with 435,000 armed resisters is the problem.......it would have drained the German military to occupy the country.....unlike the other countries where the citizens were unarmed and passive. Had they all stood up like Switzerland, the Germans couldn't have taken all of that territory.

 

[2aguy]

Wrong......I showed you the historian......

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS



That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"



The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.



The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.



Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.



While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

Wrong. They didn't attack Switzerland because of its geographic position and Switzerland put explosives on all the bridges, train lines, etc. You should read more history than just cut and pasting NRA talking points.

Dumb shit, that link is from F*****g PBS you moron.......PBS.........

Wow....they rigged the bridges with explosives......I guess the Germans didn't have engineers who might have known how to un rig the explosives....one thing the Germans aren't known for is their Engineers...right?

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

 

[westwall]

Wrong......I showed you the historian......

THE SWISS WERE PREPARED TO FIGHT FACISM TO THE BITTER END | FRONTLINE | PBS



That is why the Nazis despised Switzerland. Joseph Goebbels called Switzerland "this stinking little state" where "sentiment has turned very much against us." Adolf Hitler decided that "all the rubbish of small nations still existing in Europe must be liquidated," even if it meant he would later "be attacked as the 'Butcher of the Swiss.'"



The 1940 Nazi invasion plan, Operation Tannenbaum, was not executed, and SS Oberst Hermann Bohme's 1943 memorandum warned that an invasion of Switzerland would be too costly because every man was armed and trained to shoot. This did not stop the Gestapo from preparing lists of Swiss to be liquidated once the Nazis overran the country.



The other European nations were easily toppled and had little means to wage a partisan war against the occupation. Once their standing armies were defeated, the governments capitulated and the populaces were defenseless.



Only in Switzerland was the entire populace armed and prepared to wage a relentless guerrilla war against an invader. When the war began in 1939, Switzerland mobilized 435,000 citizen soldiers out of a population of 4.2 million. Production figures for Swiss service rifles, which had firepower equal to those of the Germans, demonstrate an ample supply of small arms. Swiss militiamen were instructed to disregard any alleged "official" surrender as enemy propaganda and, if necessary, to fight individually. This meant that a nation of sharpshooters would be sniping at German soldiers at long ranges from every mountain.



While neutral, Switzerland was prepared to fight a Nazi invasion to the end. The celebrated Swiss Gen. Henri Guisan developed the strategy known as defense du reduit--an initial opposition followed by a retreat into the Alps, where a relentless war to the death would be waged. Most Swiss strongly opposed Nazism. Death sentences were issued for fifth-column activities, and proclamations against anti-Semitism were passed at various official levels. There was no Holocaust on Swiss soil, something that can not be said for France, the Netherlands, Poland or most of Europe.

Wrong. They didn't attack Switzerland because of its geographic position and Switzerland put explosives on all the bridges, train lines, etc. You should read more history than just cut and pasting NRA talking points.

Dumb shit, that link is from F*****g PBS you moron.......PBS.........

Wow....they rigged the bridges with explosives......I guess the Germans didn't have engineers who might have known how to un rig the explosives....one thing the Germans aren't known for is their Engineers...right?

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Address your comment to joe b. He's the idiot who doesn't understand the concept of how powerful an armed populace is.

 

[Lewdog]

Wrong. They didn't attack Switzerland because of its geographic position and Switzerland put explosives on all the bridges, train lines, etc. You should read more history than just cut and pasting NRA talking points.

Dumb shit, that link is from F*****g PBS you moron.......PBS.........

Wow....they rigged the bridges with explosives......I guess the Germans didn't have engineers who might have known how to un rig the explosives....one thing the Germans aren't known for is their Engineers...right?

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

 

[Lewdog]

Wrong. They didn't attack Switzerland because of its geographic position and Switzerland put explosives on all the bridges, train lines, etc. You should read more history than just cut and pasting NRA talking points.

Dumb shit, that link is from F*****g PBS you moron.......PBS.........

Wow....they rigged the bridges with explosives......I guess the Germans didn't have engineers who might have known how to un rig the explosives....one thing the Germans aren't known for is their Engineers...right?

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Address your comment to joe b. He's the idiot who doesn't understand the concept of how powerful an armed populace is.

My comment about Switzerland is apples to oranges compared to the U.S. Those people served in the military for 2 years and were properly trained in how to handle them and respect what they can do. In the U.S. we have 18 year old kids that play Call of Duty and go out and buy a gun and think if someone gets shot they can just come back to life at the closest spawn point. Last part was jokingly, but somewhat serious, they don't understand the ramifications of their actions, only that it will make them famous on Facebook and Youtube.

 

[westwall]

Dumb shit, that link is from F*****g PBS you moron.......PBS.........

Wow....they rigged the bridges with explosives......I guess the Germans didn't have engineers who might have known how to un rig the explosives....one thing the Germans aren't known for is their Engineers...right?

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

And the overwhelming majority of gun owners in the USA are likewise well trained. Or don't you understand that? We have over 300 million firearms in circulation with at least 70 million LEGAL gun owners. Firearms are used criminally by a vanishingly small number of people. 11,000 murders (most gangbanger on gangbanger) per year is a terrible thing, but compared to the number of people killed by doctors (120,000 per year according to the AMA) through malpractice or simple mistake, a drop in the bucket.

 

[2aguy]

Dumb shit, that link is from F*****g PBS you moron.......PBS.........

Wow....they rigged the bridges with explosives......I guess the Germans didn't have engineers who might have known how to un rig the explosives....one thing the Germans aren't known for is their Engineers...right?

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

You are an idiot......the Texas church shooter was in the military.....as was lee harvey oswald, you twit.

 

[Lewdog]

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

And the overwhelming majority of gun owners in the USA are likewise well trained. Or don't you understand that? We have over 300 million firearms in circulation with at least 70 million LEGAL gun owners. Firearms are used criminally by a vanishingly small number of people. 11,000 murders (most gangbanger on gangbanger) per year is a terrible thing, but compared to the number of people killed by doctors (120,000 per year according to the AMA) through malpractice or simple mistake, a drop in the bucket.

No they are not. Just because someone is a LEGAL gun owner does not make them well trained in guns, especially compared to gun owners in Switzerland that spent TWO YEARS in the military.

Stop with the ridiculous comments.

 

[Lewdog]

I don't give a fuck where the are from, they are wrong. Since when do YOU believe a link from PBS?

Holy shit you are dense... The Swiss would see the Germans coming and blow up the bridges and train tracks before they got there... Thank you for proving just how dumb you are.

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

You are an idiot......the Texas church shooter was in the military.....as was lee harvey oswald, you twit.

So? What's that got to do with things? The Texas Church shooter had a domestic violence case on the US Air Force base and due to the backlog of files it wasn't reported to the national data base and he shouldn't have had a gun. That was the federal government's fault.

Don't even get started with Lee Harvey Oswald. That's a whole can of worms off topic including him trying to commit suicide in Russia which would make him under current laws ineligible to own a gun... not to mention all the other shit.

 

[westwall]

Ever hear of the paratrooper dipshit? The Blizkrieg?

You are an idiot....

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

And the overwhelming majority of gun owners in the USA are likewise well trained. Or don't you understand that? We have over 300 million firearms in circulation with at least 70 million LEGAL gun owners. Firearms are used criminally by a vanishingly small number of people. 11,000 murders (most gangbanger on gangbanger) per year is a terrible thing, but compared to the number of people killed by doctors (120,000 per year according to the AMA) through malpractice or simple mistake, a drop in the bucket.

No they are not. Just because someone is a LEGAL gun owner does not make them well trained in guns, especially compared to gun owners in Switzerland that spent TWO YEARS in the military.

Stop with the ridiculous comments.

The vast majority of active shooters are far better trained than the cops who are the supposed experts.

 

[Lewdog]

Paratroopers without any tanks or artillery? During the time of WWII? Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military? You need to go back and study your history more. Switzerland is in such a place that it show down both axis AND allies planes that ignored Switzerland's sovereignty and flew over it, yet none of them invaded Switzerland because they knew how difficult it would be and their casualties would be high.

Just to show you how big of a dumbass you are... the most important piece in Blitzkrieg is that it is spearheaded by heavily armored vehicles... like tanks. You know... like tanks that couldn't get into Switzerland?

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

And the overwhelming majority of gun owners in the USA are likewise well trained. Or don't you understand that? We have over 300 million firearms in circulation with at least 70 million LEGAL gun owners. Firearms are used criminally by a vanishingly small number of people. 11,000 murders (most gangbanger on gangbanger) per year is a terrible thing, but compared to the number of people killed by doctors (120,000 per year according to the AMA) through malpractice or simple mistake, a drop in the bucket.

No they are not. Just because someone is a LEGAL gun owner does not make them well trained in guns, especially compared to gun owners in Switzerland that spent TWO YEARS in the military.

Stop with the ridiculous comments.

The vast majority of active shooters are far better trained than the cops who are the supposed experts.

You just keep throwing more and more out there. Keep going. Feel free to support your arguments with some respected statistical data to back that up. And don't show me some guy hitting center mass at a target range alongside the cops shooting and missing the Kehoe brothers. You tend to be a little bit worse shot when the target is firing back at you.

 

[2aguy]

Where almost EVERY citizen in Switzerland has a gun because they have served in the military?

See...you agree with me.......thanks.

Yes... because they all have served in the military and have training and have respect for what a gun can do. Obviously you don't understand that.

And the overwhelming majority of gun owners in the USA are likewise well trained. Or don't you understand that? We have over 300 million firearms in circulation with at least 70 million LEGAL gun owners. Firearms are used criminally by a vanishingly small number of people. 11,000 murders (most gangbanger on gangbanger) per year is a terrible thing, but compared to the number of people killed by doctors (120,000 per year according to the AMA) through malpractice or simple mistake, a drop in the bucket.

No they are not. Just because someone is a LEGAL gun owner does not make them well trained in guns, especially compared to gun owners in Switzerland that spent TWO YEARS in the military.

Stop with the ridiculous comments.

The vast majority of active shooters are far better trained than the cops who are the supposed experts.

You just keep throwing more and more out there. Keep going. Feel free to support your arguments with some respected statistical data to back that up. And don't show me some guy hitting center mass at a target range alongside the cops shooting and missing the Kehoe brothers. You tend to be a little bit worse shot when the target is firing back at you.

You tend to be a little bit worse shot when the target is firing back at you.

Yes...thank you for admitting this....this is why the body count in a mass shooting is so high and the shooter is able to hit so many people.....they are relaxed, and shooting at unarmed people who can't shoot back....ask police who do A.L.I.C.E. training and they will tell you, the hit percentages of mass shooters are higher than those for trained police officers.

You tend to be a little bit worse shot when the target is firing back at you.

And this is why we support ending gun free zones.....as soon as someone is pointing a gun at the mass shooter, he stops killing unarmed people and has to deal with the other guy with the gun.....saving lives......when normal people have guns at mass shootings, the shooters are stopped and/or lives are saved 94% of the time.....

The sooner you get someone shooting back at the shooter the faster he goes to his endgame of comitting suicide, running away or giving up.... when it is a gun free zone they have 6 minutes or more of killing before they are forced to stop and deal with good guys with guns...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.