Obaminationcare True Goal - Bankrupt the Insurance Industry and FORCE Single Payor!!!

[Care4all]

The state insurance pools are the "Public Option". The current ACA is unlike the Obamacare crap they tried to pass at first, it is Romneycare that truly allows you to have private insurance or join the more expensive state run pools. Here is Missouri's State & Federal Health Insurance Pool.

no, they are not....they are comprised of private insurance companies, all in it for a profit. The public option or non profit option, were groups that provided health insurance without keeping excess profit, but returning any profit to the insured by lowering their insurance premiums.

It has been proven that non-profit health insurers can't bend the cost curve as well as for profits. This same ACA plan has been enacted in Massachusetts since 2006. Non-profit insurers did not perform as well as for profit insurers.

5 painful health-care lessons from Massachusetts: ...Massachusetts is vilifying prestigious, non-profit insurers, and punishing them, believe it nor not, with price controls. In April, Governor Deval Patrick refused the request of carriers such as Harvard Pilgrim, the top-rated plan in the country, for premium increases of 8% to 32%. Instead, his administration is refusing all rate hikes over 7.7%; any rate requests the administration rejects are automatically held at 2009 levels.

In explosive emails released last week, Robert Dynan, chief of the financial analysis unit at the Division of Insurance, told Commissioner Joseph Murphy that the price caps would cause a "potential train wreck" and threatened "catastrophic consequences for the non-profit industry." Dynan warned that the non-profits, unlike national giants such as WellPoint (WLP, Fortune 500), operate on such slim margins that the controls could drive them into bankruptcy. Even now, four of the biggest insurers are threatening to stop taking new patients at rates so low they lose money on each new enrollee.

well, too bad for them....

my State has stopped the Private insurance companies from taking a double digit percentage hike as well, not too long ago....the insurance company then sued....it went to court and was upheld.

the non-profit Harvard Pilgrim as with the private insurance company here trying for a huge hike in premium costs, had to show PROOF of why they needed the hike....the insurance company here could not prove they needed to raise their prices as much as they were asking to and it appears that that Harvard Pilgrim could not prove they needed the hike that high in massachusetts as well.... of course they both said they needed the hike to stay in business, what else are they going to say?

edit:

And that means there is no Public Option in the Exchanges, as I said earlier.

 

[GHook93]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

actually, consider this.

In 1993, the Insurance Industry spent millions on the Harry and Louise commercials trying to talk us out of HillaryCare. They saw a government agency competing with them as a mortal threat.

Now they welcome the government essentially subsidizing them.

Yes, RomneyCare and ObamaCare are pretty much what big insurance wanted, becuase they knew they couldn't go on as they had much longer.

Could it ever be that the Insurance industry didn't like either?
I can't see the insurance industry like a bill that:
(1) Requires them to insure people with expense preexisting conditions?
(2) Requires them to treat everyone the same regardless of health (although age can be considered).
(3) Caps their income and requires rebate checks be sent if they go above it.
(4) With the only promise of relief being the mandate, which is destined the fail. First, may of the uninsured are people with those preexisting conditions that they are now forced to insure and treat like a healthy person. Second, the "Free Riders" will be in full effect. The "tax" in 2014 is $95 and jumps to $695 in 2016. LOL, both sting less then a feather. Most likely the only ones of the 32 mil uninsured that will get insurance are the people previously denied by the insurance cos, which is good for them, but not the healthy people the mandate was sold as being forced to get insurance. Lastly, even if all the so-called healthy people got insurance, they would be able to cover the burden cause by insuring sick people!

How Will The New Health Insurance Laws Affect You

 

[GHook93]

Obaminationcare True Goal - Bankrupt the Insurance Industry and FORCE Single Payor!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good. Making a profit off of the pain and suffering of other human beings is immoral.

Hey pampers, it might surprise you but I am more supportive of a single payer option then against it. But you analysis is wrong. If there was no insurance or single payer option, then many more of us would be screwed!

 

[Care4all]

Not even a shred of truth to that!

actually, consider this.

In 1993, the Insurance Industry spent millions on the Harry and Louise commercials trying to talk us out of HillaryCare. They saw a government agency competing with them as a mortal threat.

Now they welcome the government essentially subsidizing them.

Yes, RomneyCare and ObamaCare are pretty much what big insurance wanted, becuase they knew they couldn't go on as they had much longer.

Could it ever be that the Insurance industry didn't like either?
I can't see the insurance industry like a bill that:
(1) Requires them to insure people with expense preexisting conditions?
(2) Requires them to treat everyone the same regardless of health (although age can be considered).
(3) Caps their income and requires rebate checks be sent if they go above it.
(4) With the only promise of relief being the mandate, which is destined the fail. First, may of the uninsured are people with those preexisting conditions that they are now forced to insure and treat like a healthy person. Second, the "Free Riders" will be in full effect. The "tax" in 2014 is $95 and jumps to $695 in 2016. LOL, both sting less then a feather. Most likely the only ones of the 32 mil uninsured that will get insurance are the people previously denied by the insurance cos, which is good for them, but not the healthy people the mandate was sold as being forced to get insurance. Lastly, even if all the so-called healthy people got insurance, they would be able to cover the burden cause by insuring sick people!

How Will The New Health Insurance Laws Affect You

Do you think the insurance companies are stupid, and didn't know what they were agreeing to? I don't.

I know they had every actuary they could gather working on whether taking on preexisting conditions could be compensated by the 30 million more policy holders, and guess what? the insurance companies agreed, they would take on preexisting condition people and still come out WAYYYYYY AHEAD, if the mandate was in place.

Trust me, they are going to get rich off of this.....

 

[auditor0007]

Why did Obaminationcare first insist on the Public Option? Because they wanted it to morph into the only option! They didn't get it so they need Plan B, bankrupt the insurance industry and FORCE a single payor option.

Make no mistake, the Democrats want a Europe/Canadian single payor option (something I am not that against).

Obaminationcare has some popular aspects, namely not allowing denial for pre-existing conditions and forcing insurance co's to treat everyone the same regardless of medical history and/or health. Face it, facts are facts, anyone of us can for from A+++ health to uninsurable overnight (it happened to my brother-in-law: Went from healthy athlete to an uninsurable expensive MS patient). As we get older our health decreases and our healthcare needs increase. We all know those days come and that is why so many of us (including myself) see these items as favorable.

HOWEVER, there is a BUSINESS perspective here that cannot be overlooked! The cost of insuring a sick and/or injured person who would have previously be considered uninsurable is a HUGE cost and HUGE loser for the insurance company that insures him. That is why he/she was previous uninsurable. Take the emotion and moral issues, out of it and you can see this causes a problem for a company trying to stay in business!

So what was supposed to be the trade off or offset these huge financial burdens to the insurance companies:
(1) The mandate: This was the main and really only one. Get people without insurance to pay for insurance or face a tax.
First, even if you could get all the people without insurance to get insurance it wouldn't offset the costs to the insurance companies. Cost to insure the sick would outweigh by a large margin the income of insuring the healthy.
Second, many of the people without insurance are those "pesky" uninsurable people (insuring them is not going to save insurance Co's money). It's overstated that many don't have insurance because they are young and health. Most without insurance are people who need it and cost more to the insurance co then they bring in.

Third, health insurance costs are going to skyrocket. Are people naive enough to believe people without employer plans will be able to afford even HIGHER insurance costs. I guarantee most will not get insurance (like they do now) and either pay the really no so stinging tax or not pay the tax. Most of the people who won't pay the tax are low waged Obama base supporters, do you really believe he will instruct the IRS to hammer this negative headlines human interest stories in the making? Not a chance, so the incentive to get insurance is NOT there.

In fact the incentive to do the opposite is. Previously you needed insurance BEFORE you got sick otherwise you couldn't get insurance or treatment. Now everyone is treated the same and there can't be denial for preexisting conditions. Therefore, people can holdoff from getting insurance until they need. Then they can get it when they need it without fear of denial or higher fees for being sick. They are blackhole on the profits of insurance co. Yes there is the risks from emergencies (such as having a heart attack), but many more, not less, will take those risks. The "tax" will not prevent this as it hasn't prevented this is MA!

(2) Forcing Businesses To Get Employer Plans: This was the BIGGEST RED HERRING by both sides. First, this only effect companies with 50 employees or greater! How many businesses with 50 employees or greater do not have employer based plans? Few if any! So the GOP claim it will bankrupt small businesses that can't afford plans is red herring, but so is the Obama claim he will force your employer to get insurance. Bottom line: There will not be more or less employers spliting the bill in 2014!

Summary:
(1) Obaminationcare is anything but affordable; in fact it will make health insurance unaffordable to everyone: Drive up the costs to the insurees and employers with the medical plan in form of premiums, coverage, deductibles and co-pays, while reducing non-forced benefits (mental health see ya later)! We are seeing the ramp up now and Obaminationcare isn't set to kick in until 2014!!!

(2) Impossible for Insurance Co's to operation profitable (meaning inevitable bankruptcy): They are going to be forced to added millions of people who were previous uninsurable creating huge blackholes on the books for each one of those millions, with no real way to offset this burden.

(3) The mandate will work in reverse: It will not overset the forced insuring of the uninsurable high costs even if it worked as planned. The people who wait until they get sick and then get insurance will be huge blackholes and not what that mandate was supposed to provide.

(4) The Small Business Provision was nothing more than a talking point by both sides.

(5) The goal by design: Make health insurance so costly that people and business can't afford it and even more people turn against the private sector based insurance system. Bankrupt the insurance industry by forcing them to insure financial blackholes, with no real source to offset those blackholes!

Two quick points; number one, the system can work with insurance companies remaining profitable, at least for the short term. Look at Switzerland; our system is going to be very similar overall, and it is working out well for them. Secondly, in the long run, it may still move toward single payer if the costs become too high. Single payer is the best solution, but it would require an absolute overhaul of the entire system, from the way we pay to educate our doctors, to how we bill and pay for services. I just hope that when that time comes, we still hold onto a private option. While Canada has a good system, it lacks the private option which should still be available for those who want it. This is how it works in the UK, everyone is covered under the public system, but you can buy private insurance which gives you some extra options and usually speeds up wait times compared to those without private insurance.

 

[auditor0007]

actually, consider this.

In 1993, the Insurance Industry spent millions on the Harry and Louise commercials trying to talk us out of HillaryCare. They saw a government agency competing with them as a mortal threat.

Now they welcome the government essentially subsidizing them.

Yes, RomneyCare and ObamaCare are pretty much what big insurance wanted, becuase they knew they couldn't go on as they had much longer.

Could it ever be that the Insurance industry didn't like either?
I can't see the insurance industry like a bill that:
(1) Requires them to insure people with expense preexisting conditions?
(2) Requires them to treat everyone the same regardless of health (although age can be considered).
(3) Caps their income and requires rebate checks be sent if they go above it.
(4) With the only promise of relief being the mandate, which is destined the fail. First, may of the uninsured are people with those preexisting conditions that they are now forced to insure and treat like a healthy person. Second, the "Free Riders" will be in full effect. The "tax" in 2014 is $95 and jumps to $695 in 2016. LOL, both sting less then a feather. Most likely the only ones of the 32 mil uninsured that will get insurance are the people previously denied by the insurance cos, which is good for them, but not the healthy people the mandate was sold as being forced to get insurance. Lastly, even if all the so-called healthy people got insurance, they would be able to cover the burden cause by insuring sick people!

How Will The New Health Insurance Laws Affect You

Do you think the insurance companies are stupid, and didn't know what they were agreeing to? I don't.

I know they had every actuary they could gather working on whether taking on preexisting conditions could be compensated by the 30 million more policy holders, and guess what? the insurance companies agreed, they would take on preexisting condition people and still come out WAYYYYYY AHEAD, if the mandate was in place.

Trust me, they are going to get rich off of this.....

They will increase revenues substantially, but their margins will remain low. By requiring them to spend at least 80% on direct medical care, it will make it difficult for them to make big profit margins. I'm not sure it's a win win situation, but I think it is workable, at least for the short term. One thing we need to understand when we talk about how much money insurance companies make on healthcare is just how much money is involved to begin with. They will be taking a huge chunk of the close to $3 trillion we will soon be spending on healthcare. If some CEO's are making $10 or $20 million on massive revenues, I'm not going to complain too much.

 

[Care4all]

Could it ever be that the Insurance industry didn't like either?
I can't see the insurance industry like a bill that:
(1) Requires them to insure people with expense preexisting conditions?
(2) Requires them to treat everyone the same regardless of health (although age can be considered).
(3) Caps their income and requires rebate checks be sent if they go above it.
(4) With the only promise of relief being the mandate, which is destined the fail. First, may of the uninsured are people with those preexisting conditions that they are now forced to insure and treat like a healthy person. Second, the "Free Riders" will be in full effect. The "tax" in 2014 is $95 and jumps to $695 in 2016. LOL, both sting less then a feather. Most likely the only ones of the 32 mil uninsured that will get insurance are the people previously denied by the insurance cos, which is good for them, but not the healthy people the mandate was sold as being forced to get insurance. Lastly, even if all the so-called healthy people got insurance, they would be able to cover the burden cause by insuring sick people!

How Will The New Health Insurance Laws Affect You

Do you think the insurance companies are stupid, and didn't know what they were agreeing to? I don't.

I know they had every actuary they could gather working on whether taking on preexisting conditions could be compensated by the 30 million more policy holders, and guess what? the insurance companies agreed, they would take on preexisting condition people and still come out WAYYYYYY AHEAD, if the mandate was in place.

Trust me, they are going to get rich off of this.....

They will increase revenues substantially, but their margins will remain low. By requiring them to spend at least 80% on direct medical care, it will make it difficult for them to make big profit margins. I'm not sure it's a win win situation, but I think it is workable, at least for the short term. One thing we need to understand when we talk about how much money insurance companies make on healthcare is just how much money is involved to begin with. They will be taking a huge chunk of the close to $3 trillion we will soon be spending on healthcare. If some CEO's are making $10 or $20 million on massive revenues, I'm not going to complain too much.

increased sales, heals all 'wounds' is a saying we had in retail...spreading out your fixed expenses over a higher sales volume can add a point or 2 to your bottom line...

guess time will tell....

good to hear that provision is in there.

 

[JoeB131]

Not even a shred of truth to that!

actually, consider this.

In 1993, the Insurance Industry spent millions on the Harry and Louise commercials trying to talk us out of HillaryCare. They saw a government agency competing with them as a mortal threat.

Now they welcome the government essentially subsidizing them.

Yes, RomneyCare and ObamaCare are pretty much what big insurance wanted, becuase they knew they couldn't go on as they had much longer.

Could it ever be that the Insurance industry didn't like either?
I can't see the insurance industry like a bill that:
(1) Requires them to insure people with expense preexisting conditions?
(2) Requires them to treat everyone the same regardless of health (although age can be considered).
(3) Caps their income and requires rebate checks be sent if they go above it.
(4) With the only promise of relief being the mandate, which is destined the fail. First, may of the uninsured are people with those preexisting conditions that they are now forced to insure and treat like a healthy person. Second, the "Free Riders" will be in full effect. The "tax" in 2014 is $95 and jumps to $695 in 2016. LOL, both sting less then a feather. Most likely the only ones of the 32 mil uninsured that will get insurance are the people previously denied by the insurance cos, which is good for them, but not the healthy people the mandate was sold as being forced to get insurance. Lastly, even if all the so-called healthy people got insurance, they would be able to cover the burden cause by insuring sick people!

How Will The New Health Insurance Laws Affect You

Oh, I didn't say they were going to "like" it, and they spent a lot of time working the refs to make sure they didn't have to compete with a public option. The sad thing is that a lot of good ideas were thrown out trying to get people like Evan Bayh and Joe Lieberman to sign on. Like the Public Option (Keeps the insurance companies honest by giving them a not-for-profit competitor) and allowing a Medicare Buy-In for those over 55. (Actually, it would be great for older workers, who companies don't like hiring because of their potential health issues.)

Frankly, I don't weep for the insurance companies and their big glass buildings and CEO's with 8 figure salaries, and I'm not sure why you do.

 

[KissMy]

no, they are not....they are comprised of private insurance companies, all in it for a profit. The public option or non profit option, were groups that provided health insurance without keeping excess profit, but returning any profit to the insured by lowering their insurance premiums.

It has been proven that non-profit health insurers can't bend the cost curve as well as for profits. This same ACA plan has been enacted in Massachusetts since 2006. Non-profit insurers did not perform as well as for profit insurers.

5 painful health-care lessons from Massachusetts: ...Massachusetts is vilifying prestigious, non-profit insurers, and punishing them, believe it nor not, with price controls. In April, Governor Deval Patrick refused the request of carriers such as Harvard Pilgrim, the top-rated plan in the country, for premium increases of 8% to 32%. Instead, his administration is refusing all rate hikes over 7.7%; any rate requests the administration rejects are automatically held at 2009 levels.

In explosive emails released last week, Robert Dynan, chief of the financial analysis unit at the Division of Insurance, told Commissioner Joseph Murphy that the price caps would cause a "potential train wreck" and threatened "catastrophic consequences for the non-profit industry." Dynan warned that the non-profits, unlike national giants such as WellPoint (WLP, Fortune 500), operate on such slim margins that the controls could drive them into bankruptcy. Even now, four of the biggest insurers are threatening to stop taking new patients at rates so low they lose money on each new enrollee.

well, too bad for them....

my State has stopped the Private insurance companies from taking a double digit percentage hike as well, not too long ago....the insurance company then sued....it went to court and was upheld.

the non-profit Harvard Pilgrim as with the private insurance company here trying for a huge hike in premium costs, had to show PROOF of why they needed the hike....the insurance company here could not prove they needed to raise their prices as much as they were asking to and it appears that that Harvard Pilgrim could not prove they needed the hike that high in massachusetts as well.... of course they both said they needed the hike to stay in business, what else are they going to say?

edit:

And that means there is no Public Option in the Exchanges, as I said earlier.

Do you actually believe that a huge monopoly such as government single payer would not demand rate increases? They would unionize & go on strike forcing prices higher. Just look at the extortion that the Police, Fire & Teachers have done to us with their $multi-million$ early retirements all while delivering poorer performance. With interstate competition insurance companies will be forced to compete with lower prices to keep from losing market share. This is why it is critical that the McCarran–Ferguson Act of 1945 be repealed forcing competition instead of monopoly, price fixing & racketeering power insurance companies have enjoyed legally for the past 66 years.

 

[onecut39]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

For the immediate and short term future the insurance companies will make out like bandits. How well they do or do not restrain themselves will be the key to what happens after that.

 

[GHook93]

actually, consider this.

In 1993, the Insurance Industry spent millions on the Harry and Louise commercials trying to talk us out of HillaryCare. They saw a government agency competing with them as a mortal threat.

Now they welcome the government essentially subsidizing them.

Yes, RomneyCare and ObamaCare are pretty much what big insurance wanted, becuase they knew they couldn't go on as they had much longer.

Could it ever be that the Insurance industry didn't like either?
I can't see the insurance industry like a bill that:
(1) Requires them to insure people with expense preexisting conditions?
(2) Requires them to treat everyone the same regardless of health (although age can be considered).
(3) Caps their income and requires rebate checks be sent if they go above it.
(4) With the only promise of relief being the mandate, which is destined the fail. First, may of the uninsured are people with those preexisting conditions that they are now forced to insure and treat like a healthy person. Second, the "Free Riders" will be in full effect. The "tax" in 2014 is $95 and jumps to $695 in 2016. LOL, both sting less then a feather. Most likely the only ones of the 32 mil uninsured that will get insurance are the people previously denied by the insurance cos, which is good for them, but not the healthy people the mandate was sold as being forced to get insurance. Lastly, even if all the so-called healthy people got insurance, they would be able to cover the burden cause by insuring sick people!

How Will The New Health Insurance Laws Affect You

Do you think the insurance companies are stupid, and didn't know what they were agreeing to? I don't.

I know they had every actuary they could gather working on whether taking on preexisting conditions could be compensated by the 30 million more policy holders, and guess what? the insurance companies agreed, they would take on preexisting condition people and still come out WAYYYYYY AHEAD, if the mandate was in place.

Trust me, they are going to get rich off of this.....

When did they agree to it? It was passed by Congress. Just as the banks didn't want Dodd/Frank, medical industry didn't want HIPPA, email marketing industry didn't want CAM-SPAM and telemarketing industry didn't want DNC. Companies and industries don't have to agree to legislation that Congress passes, they have to live what Congress passes!

You say they are smart people and this is true, but people said the same thing about banks when they were giving billions away in toxic loans. What about the largest insurance co in the world AIG insuring these toxic loans?

Every year their are insurance Cos that go out of business or fall into financial troubles and get bought out by competitors. You have too much faith!

 

[GHook93]

Do you think the insurance companies are stupid, and didn't know what they were agreeing to? I don't.

I know they had every actuary they could gather working on whether taking on preexisting conditions could be compensated by the 30 million more policy holders, and guess what? the insurance companies agreed, they would take on preexisting condition people and still come out WAYYYYYY AHEAD, if the mandate was in place.

Trust me, they are going to get rich off of this.....

They will increase revenues substantially, but their margins will remain low. By requiring them to spend at least 80% on direct medical care, it will make it difficult for them to make big profit margins. I'm not sure it's a win win situation, but I think it is workable, at least for the short term. One thing we need to understand when we talk about how much money insurance companies make on healthcare is just how much money is involved to begin with. They will be taking a huge chunk of the close to $3 trillion we will soon be spending on healthcare. If some CEO's are making $10 or $20 million on massive revenues, I'm not going to complain too much.

increased sales, heals all 'wounds' is a saying we had in retail...spreading out your fixed expenses over a higher sales volume can add a point or 2 to your bottom line...

guess time will tell....

good to hear that provision is in there.

I worked in sales for a decade, my sales VP had another saying, "A bad sales is worse than no sale!" That is very true. Say you sell 100 widgets with a profit margin of $10 = $1000 profit. Say you sell 1000 widgets at a margin of $1 = $1000. The effort, expense and time associated with the 1000 widgets is well not worth it. But that is still better than selling 10,000 widgets at a margin of -$1 = $10K loss.

 

[GHook93]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

For the immediate and short term future the insurance companies will make out like bandits. How well they do or do not restrain themselves will be the key to what happens after that.

Kind of like the lenders did when Clinton, Dodds and Frank kicked off the mortgage bubble that couldn't be stopped until it burst!

 

[Katzndogz]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

You are right. Not a shred of truth. obamacare was written by several committees. That's why no one has yet to read the entire bill. The purpose was to eventually move everyone into the insurance exchanges and end private insurance leaving us with the liberal goal of single payer.

 

[onecut39]

This is a "fraud", a "scam" and a "con". We were told that taxes would not be raised on the "middle class". Not so, the dems have managed to tax us all. Every single one of them that signed that bill should be charged with fraud and punished to the full extent of the law.

What is the tax on the middle class?

 

[Flopper]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

nope

the doc is right.

the insurance companies are fine with covering preexisting conditions as long as there is a mandate that all be covered.

this is a ''gift horse'' for the insurance companies, especially since the ''public option'' and ''non profit option'' were shot down....

Right, handling preexisting conditions is costly for insurance companies. I purchased an individual policy a few years ago. The completed application was 23 pages long plus attachments. It was rated by the insurance company to determine coverage. If you failed, the company had to review the application and meet with you if you requested. A two page application processed by computer would have been far easier and cheaper.

 

[Flopper]

A healthy individual can opt out of insurance, pay the tax, and if his/her health degrades, then apply for insurance because now you can't be turned down for pre-existing conditions. I'm curious why adult children can stay on their parents plan till they are 26. What happened to becoming an adult when you're 18? I'll ask you the question now. Why did Obama not introduce single payer when the whole debate started?

jasonnfree

Really good points ...

EXACTLY what are the "good points"?

Really. I couldn't find anything that even vaguely resembled a FACT. Please do enlighten me.

And - do you have any idea where that pile of doggy doo came from?

As I recall the original plan was single payer. However during the 2008 campaign it was dropped and replaced with a public option. Even that could not get enough support in Congress so the public option was dropped and the insurance companies came on board.

 

[chanel]

A healthy individual can opt out of insurance, pay the tax, and if his/her health degrades, then apply for insurance because now you can't be turned down for pre-existing conditions. I'm curious why adult children can stay on their parents plan till they are 26. What happened to becoming an adult when you're 18? I'll ask you the question now. Why did Obama not introduce single payer when the whole debate started?

jasonnfree

Really good points ...

EXACTLY what are the "good points"?

Really. I couldn't find anything that even vaguely resembled a FACT. Please do enlighten me.

And - do you have any idea where that pile of doggy doo came from?

Because socialism takes time. Having freedoms taken away a little bit at a time is much more palatable than force. Think like a Nazi.

 

[Flopper]

A healthy individual can opt out of insurance, pay the tax, and if his/her health degrades, then apply for insurance because now you can't be turned down for pre-existing conditions. I'm curious why adult children can stay on their parents plan till they are 26. What happened to becoming an adult when you're 18? I'll ask you the question now. Why did Obama not introduce single payer when the whole debate started?

jasonnfree

Really good points ...

EXACTLY what are the "good points"?

Really. I couldn't find anything that even vaguely resembled a FACT. Please do enlighten me.

And - do you have any idea where that pile of doggy doo came from?

Because of how the law is written, very few people will opt. out. Those without income or very low income workers will be covered by Medicaid. For median income workers, they will receive tax credits which will defray a large part of the cost of the insurance. For higher income workers, the 2.5% penalty will provide sufficient incentive to carry insurance.

The lose of tax credits, the tax penalty, and lack of coverage should provide amply reason for most Americans to carry insurance. I suspect very few will opt out. If they do, the penalty will probably be increased.

 

[Flopper]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

You are right. Not a shred of truth. obamacare was written by several committees. That's why no one has yet to read the entire bill. The purpose was to eventually move everyone into the insurance exchanges and end private insurance leaving us with the liberal goal of single payer.

How does moving people into insurance exchanges have anything to do with ending private insurance? The exchanges are a state-based competitive marketplaces where individuals and small businesses will be able to purchase private health insurance.