Obaminationcare True Goal - Bankrupt the Insurance Industry and FORCE Single Payor!!!

[Valerie]

Supreme Court upholds entire health care law



[Updated at 10:19 a.m. ET] Even though there's disagreement on the issue, the majority ruling is essentially saying it is up to the branches to work out the differences.

"When a court confronts an unconstitutional statue its endeavor must be to to conserve, not destroy the legislation," Roberts wrote.

The decision is 110 pages, including the dissent, which was written together by Justices Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas and Alito.

A concurring opinion was written by Justice Ginsberg.

[Updated at 10:16 a.m. ET] Kate Bolduan reports that the Chief Justice John Roberts issued a long opinion in which he said the controversial individual mandate may be upheld and is within Congress’ power under the taxing clause rather than the commerce clause.

Important to say that (obviously) this is a complicated ruling and Roberts' did say indiv. mandate could not stand under Commerce Clause.
—


[Updated at 10:15 a.m. ET] The Supreme Court has upheld the entire health care law by a vote of 5 to 4, Supreme Court Producer Bill Mears said. That includes the medicare provision.

Supreme Court upholds health care law - This Just In - CNN.com Blogs

 

[logical4u]

This is a "fraud", a "scam" and a "con". We were told that taxes would not be raised on the "middle class". Not so, the dems have managed to tax us all. Every single one of them that signed that bill should be charged with fraud and punished to the full extent of the law.

What are you talking about? What "fraud"?

Breaking campaign promises isn't fraud, and never has been.

"Read my lips: No new taxes"

We, the public was told this was not a "tax". All of the dems in congress are on "record" of saying this bill was not a "tax". It was just "ruled" that it was. The dems comitted fraud on the people of this nation and should be held "responsible". It will be a huge tax increase on the "middle" class. They should be treated the same way Bernie Madoff was treated, and imprisoned if found complicit.

 

[Care4all]

This is a "fraud", a "scam" and a "con". We were told that taxes would not be raised on the "middle class". Not so, the dems have managed to tax us all. Every single one of them that signed that bill should be charged with fraud and punished to the full extent of the law.

What are you talking about? What "fraud"?

Breaking campaign promises isn't fraud, and never has been.

"Read my lips: No new taxes"

We, the public was told this was not a "tax". All of the dems in congress are on "record" of saying this bill was not a "tax". It was just "ruled" that it was. The dems comitted fraud on the people of this nation and should be held "responsible". It will be a huge tax increase on the "middle" class. They should be treated the same way Bernie Madoff was treated, and imprisoned if found complicit.

you mean the penalty if one chooses not to buy insurance, right?

 

[Political Junky]

Charts showing how much US residents pay for health care compared to people in other countries - Boing Boing

 

[JoeB131]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

actually, consider this.

In 1993, the Insurance Industry spent millions on the Harry and Louise commercials trying to talk us out of HillaryCare. They saw a government agency competing with them as a mortal threat.

Now they welcome the government essentially subsidizing them.

Yes, RomneyCare and ObamaCare are pretty much what big insurance wanted, becuase they knew they couldn't go on as they had much longer.

 

[logical4u]

What are you talking about? What "fraud"?

Breaking campaign promises isn't fraud, and never has been.

"Read my lips: No new taxes"

We, the public was told this was not a "tax". All of the dems in congress are on "record" of saying this bill was not a "tax". It was just "ruled" that it was. The dems comitted fraud on the people of this nation and should be held "responsible". It will be a huge tax increase on the "middle" class. They should be treated the same way Bernie Madoff was treated, and imprisoned if found complicit.

you mean the penalty if one chooses not to buy insurance, right?

It was "ruled" a "tax". Don't play the "it depends"..... what "tax" is game. It has been ruled and declared a tax. Your taxes will be increasing, thank your dear leader.

 

[logical4u]

Charts showing how much US residents pay for health care compared to people in other countries - Boing Boing

Does this include all the "health care" that is not necessary? You know, the cosmetic stuff: hair implants, dental work to improve smile/face structure, eye surgery to avoid glasses, plastic surgery, dermatology, removal of unsightly scars/tats, joint replacement (in many countries it is not even available), scanning for disease (so doctor is not sued), etc. Cost of "health care" when it is "optional" for those with disposable income, compared to places that "health care" equates to emergency services is no comparison. This bill just added "another middle man", and when you add "middlemen" the prices increase.

 

[Flopper]

If the plan was to bankrupt the insurance companies, they're going about it in a rather strange way. 30 million more subscribers in the coming years is going to mean some pretty big profits for the insurance companies.

 

[Care4all]

If the plan was to bankrupt the insurance companies, they're going about it in a rather strange way. 30 million more subscribers in the coming years is going to mean some pretty big profits for the insurance companies.

I agree! this is a gift horse to the Insurance companies without the Public Option!

they will be laughing all the way to the bank...

The insurance companies were fine with the "having to cover existing medical conditions''.....as long as the mandate was in place and they would have all of these added people to the insurance roll.

 

[KissMy]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Not even a shred of truth to that!

nope

the doc is right.

the insurance companies are fine with covering preexisting conditions as long as there is a mandate that all be covered.

this is a ''gift horse'' for the insurance companies, especially since the ''public option'' and ''non profit option'' were shot down....

The state insurance pools are the "Public Option". The current ACA is unlike the Obamacare crap they tried to pass at first, it is Romneycare that truly allows you to have private insurance or join the more expensive state run pools. Here is Missouri's State & Federal Health Insurance Pool.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Not even a shred of truth to that!

nope

the doc is right.

the insurance companies are fine with covering preexisting conditions as long as there is a mandate that all be covered.

this is a ''gift horse'' for the insurance companies, especially since the ''public option'' and ''non profit option'' were shot down....

The state insurance pools are the "Public Option". The current ACA is unlike the Obamacare crap they tried to pass at first, it is Romneycare that truly allows you to have private insurance or join the more expensive state run pools.

The "state insurance pools" offer insurance from private insurance companies, not from the government. Nothing "public option" about it.

 

[HUGGY]

Obaminationcare True Goal - Bankrupt the Insurance Industry and FORCE Single Payor!!!

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Good. Making a profit off of the pain and suffering of other human beings is immoral.

 

[Care4all]

A healthy individual can opt out of insurance, pay the tax, and if his/her health degrades, then apply for insurance because now you can't be turned down for pre-existing conditions. I'm curious why adult children can stay on their parents plan till they are 26. What happened to becoming an adult when you're 18? I'll ask you the question now. Why did Obama not introduce single payer when the whole debate started?

jasonnfree

Really good points ...

EXACTLY what are the "good points"?

Really. I couldn't find anything that even vaguely resembled a FACT. Please do enlighten me.

And - do you have any idea where that pile of doggy doo came from?

noooooooo, they can't just do that....

I am presuming that as with ALL health insurance policies, including Medicare, there is an "open enrollment" period...

and unless your timing of getting cancer is right at that period, I can't see how they'd be covered...plus, no one expects to be hit by a car, run in to a tree skiing, or fall off a fast moving bike....those uninsured would be responsible for their own treatment....and eventually, if they declared bankruptcy, we the tax payer and the hospitals will have to pick up the tab.... the penalty helps pay for that, i guess?

 

[KissMy]

Obaminationcare True Goal - Bankrupt the Insurance Industry and FORCE Single Payor!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good. Making a profit off of the pain and suffering of other human beings is immoral.

Then get you some non-profit health insurance & shut the fuck up!

 

[Care4all]

Not even a shred of truth to that!

nope

the doc is right.

the insurance companies are fine with covering preexisting conditions as long as there is a mandate that all be covered.

this is a ''gift horse'' for the insurance companies, especially since the ''public option'' and ''non profit option'' were shot down....

The state insurance pools are the "Public Option". The current ACA is unlike the Obamacare crap they tried to pass at first, it is Romneycare that truly allows you to have private insurance or join the more expensive state run pools. Here is Missouri's State & Federal Health Insurance Pool.

no, they are not....they are comprised of private insurance companies, all in it for a profit. The public option or non profit option, were groups that provided health insurance without keeping excess profit, but returning any profit to the insured by lowering their insurance premiums.

 

[GHook93]

He learned from Hilliarycare. If it sounds or looks like UHC, then it gets shot down in America! He couldn't even get his whole party behind the public option!

Really good points but then why didnt Obama just go for single payer in the beginning if that was his goal? He never even mentioned it.

Why did Obaminationcare first insist on the Public Option? Because they wanted it to morph into the only option! They didn't get it so they need Plan B, bankrupt the insurance industry and FORCE a single payor option.

Make no mistake, the Democrats want a Europe/Canadian single payor option (something I am not that against).

Obaminationcare has some popular aspects, namely not allowing denial for pre-existing conditions and forcing insurance co's to treat everyone the same regardless of medical history and/or health. Face it, facts are facts, anyone of us can for from A+++ health to uninsurable overnight (it happened to my brother-in-law: Went from healthy athlete to an uninsurable expensive MS patient). As we get older our health decreases and our healthcare needs increase. We all know those days come and that is why so many of us (including myself) see these items as favorable.

HOWEVER, there is a BUSINESS perspective here that cannot be overlooked! The cost of insuring a sick and/or injured person who would have previously be considered uninsurable is a HUGE cost and HUGE loser for the insurance company that insures him. That is why he/she was previous uninsurable. Take the emotion and moral issues, out of it and you can see this causes a problem for a company trying to stay in business!

So what was supposed to be the trade off or offset these huge financial burdens to the insurance companies:
(1) The mandate: This was the main and really only one. Get people without insurance to pay for insurance or face a tax.
First, even if you could get all the people without insurance to get insurance it wouldn't offset the costs to the insurance companies. Cost to insure the sick would outweigh by a large margin the income of insuring the healthy.
Second, many of the people without insurance are those "pesky" uninsurable people (insuring them is not going to save insurance Co's money). It's overstated that many don't have insurance because they are young and health. Most without insurance are people who need it and cost more to the insurance co then they bring in.

Third, health insurance costs are going to skyrocket. Are people naive enough to believe people without employer plans will be able to afford even HIGHER insurance costs. I guarantee most will not get insurance (like they do now) and either pay the really no so stinging tax or not pay the tax. Most of the people who won't pay the tax are low waged Obama base supporters, do you really believe he will instruct the IRS to hammer this negative headlines human interest stories in the making? Not a chance, so the incentive to get insurance is NOT there.

In fact the incentive to do the opposite is. Previously you needed insurance BEFORE you got sick otherwise you couldn't get insurance or treatment. Now everyone is treated the same and there can't be denial for preexisting conditions. Therefore, people can holdoff from getting insurance until they need. Then they can get it when they need it without fear of denial or higher fees for being sick. They are blackhole on the profits of insurance co. Yes there is the risks from emergencies (such as having a heart attack), but many more, not less, will take those risks. The "tax" will not prevent this as it hasn't prevented this is MA!

(2) Forcing Businesses To Get Employer Plans: This was the BIGGEST RED HERRING by both sides. First, this only effect companies with 50 employees or greater! How many businesses with 50 employees or greater do not have employer based plans? Few if any! So the GOP claim it will bankrupt small businesses that can't afford plans is red herring, but so is the Obama claim he will force your employer to get insurance. Bottom line: There will not be more or less employers spliting the bill in 2014!

Summary:
(1) Obaminationcare is anything but affordable; in fact it will make health insurance unaffordable to everyone: Drive up the costs to the insurees and employers with the medical plan in form of premiums, coverage, deductibles and co-pays, while reducing non-forced benefits (mental health see ya later)! We are seeing the ramp up now and Obaminationcare isn't set to kick in until 2014!!!

(2) Impossible for Insurance Co's to operation profitable (meaning inevitable bankruptcy): They are going to be forced to added millions of people who were previous uninsurable creating huge blackholes on the books for each one of those millions, with no real way to offset this burden.

(3) The mandate will work in reverse: It will not overset the forced insuring of the uninsurable high costs even if it worked as planned. The people who wait until they get sick and then get insurance will be huge blackholes and not what that mandate was supposed to provide.

(4) The Small Business Provision was nothing more than a talking point by both sides.

(5) The goal by design: Make health insurance so costly that people and business can't afford it and even more people turn against the private sector based insurance system. Bankrupt the insurance industry by forcing them to insure financial blackholes, with no real source to offset those blackholes!

 

[GHook93]

The "Obamacare" law was written by the insurance lobby. It's a gift to them, not a "secret plan" to bankrupt them.

Really??

Then why are they fighting having to send checks to their policy holders?

We've already received one check and will soon get another.

When will you idiots EDUCATE YOURSELVES? If you turned off lushbo, fux, beck, you just might learn that this is completely untrue.

You finally had a coherent and correct thought and then you had to ruin it with your last to sentences!

 

[GHook93]

Why did Obaminationcare first insist on the Public Option? Because they wanted it to morph into the only option! They didn't get it so they need Plan B, bankrupt the insurance industry and FORCE a single payor option.

Make no mistake, the Democrats want a Europe/Canadian single payor option (something I am not that against).

Obaminationcare has some popular aspects, namely not allowing denial for pre-existing conditions and forcing insurance co's to treat everyone the same regardless of medical history and/or health. Face it, facts are facts, anyone of us can for from A+++ health to uninsurable overnight (it happened to my brother-in-law: Went from healthy athlete to an uninsurable expensive MS patient). As we get older our health decreases and our healthcare needs increase. We all know those days come and that is why so many of us (including myself) see these items as favorable.

HOWEVER, there is a BUSINESS perspective here that cannot be overlooked! The cost of insuring a sick and/or injured person who would have previously be considered uninsurable is a HUGE cost and HUGE loser for the insurance company that insures him. That is why he/she was previous uninsurable. Take the emotion and moral issues, out of it and you can see this causes a problem for a company trying to stay in business!

So what was supposed to be the trade off or offset these huge financial burdens to the insurance companies:
(1) The mandate: This was the main and really only one. Get people without insurance to pay for insurance or face a tax.
First, even if you could get all the people without insurance to get insurance it wouldn't offset the costs to the insurance companies. Cost to insure the sick would outweigh by a large margin the income of insuring the healthy.
Second, many of the people without insurance are those "pesky" uninsurable people (insuring them is not going to save insurance Co's money). It's overstated that many don't have insurance because they are young and health. Most without insurance are people who need it and cost more to the insurance co then they bring in.

Third, health insurance costs are going to skyrocket. Are people naive enough to believe people without employer plans will be able to afford even HIGHER insurance costs. I guarantee most will not get insurance (like they do now) and either pay the really no so stinging tax or not pay the tax. Most of the people who won't pay the tax are low waged Obama base supporters, do you really believe he will instruct the IRS to hammer this negative headlines human interest stories in the making? Not a chance, so the incentive to get insurance is NOT there.

In fact the incentive to do the opposite is. Previously you needed insurance BEFORE you got sick otherwise you couldn't get insurance or treatment. Now everyone is treated the same and there can't be denial for preexisting conditions. Therefore, people can holdoff from getting insurance until they need. Then they can get it when they need it without fear of denial or higher fees for being sick. They are blackhole on the profits of insurance co. Yes there is the risks from emergencies (such as having a heart attack), but many more, not less, will take those risks. The "tax" will not prevent this as it hasn't prevented this is MA!

(2) Forcing Businesses To Get Employer Plans: This was the BIGGEST RED HERRING by both sides. First, this only effect companies with 50 employees or greater! How many businesses with 50 employees or greater do not have employer based plans? Few if any! So the GOP claim it will bankrupt small businesses that can't afford plans is red herring, but so is the Obama claim he will force your employer to get insurance. Bottom line: There will not be more or less employers spliting the bill in 2014!

Summary:
(1) Obaminationcare is anything but affordable; in fact it will make health insurance unaffordable to everyone: Drive up the costs to the insurees and employers with the medical plan in form of premiums, coverage, deductibles and co-pays, while reducing non-forced benefits (mental health see ya later)! We are seeing the ramp up now and Obaminationcare isn't set to kick in until 2014!!!

(2) Impossible for Insurance Co's to operation profitable (meaning inevitable bankruptcy): They are going to be forced to added millions of people who were previous uninsurable creating huge blackholes on the books for each one of those millions, with no real way to offset this burden.

(3) The mandate will work in reverse: It will not overset the forced insuring of the uninsurable high costs even if it worked as planned. The people who wait until they get sick and then get insurance will be huge blackholes and not what that mandate was supposed to provide.

(4) The Small Business Provision was nothing more than a talking point by both sides.

(5) The goal by design: Make health insurance so costly that people and business can't afford it and even more people turn against the private sector based insurance system. Bankrupt the insurance industry by forcing them to insure financial blackholes, with no real source to offset those blackholes!

I waded through most of this garbage and just want to know one thing -

Where did you copy/paste it from? Link please.

And for Pete's sake, THINK before you blindly believe shit like this.

I didn't steal or plagiarize it from anywhere! I always quote and link my sources if I used them.

Ignore the truth if you want!

 

[KissMy]

nope

the doc is right.

the insurance companies are fine with covering preexisting conditions as long as there is a mandate that all be covered.

this is a ''gift horse'' for the insurance companies, especially since the ''public option'' and ''non profit option'' were shot down....

The state insurance pools are the "Public Option". The current ACA is unlike the Obamacare crap they tried to pass at first, it is Romneycare that truly allows you to have private insurance or join the more expensive state run pools. Here is Missouri's State & Federal Health Insurance Pool.

no, they are not....they are comprised of private insurance companies, all in it for a profit. The public option or non profit option, were groups that provided health insurance without keeping excess profit, but returning any profit to the insured by lowering their insurance premiums.

It has been proven that non-profit health insurers can't bend the cost curve as well as for profits. This same ACA plan has been enacted in Massachusetts since 2006. Non-profit insurers did not perform as well as for profit insurers.

5 painful health-care lessons from Massachusetts: ...Massachusetts is vilifying prestigious, non-profit insurers, and punishing them, believe it nor not, with price controls. In April, Governor Deval Patrick refused the request of carriers such as Harvard Pilgrim, the top-rated plan in the country, for premium increases of 8% to 32%. Instead, his administration is refusing all rate hikes over 7.7%; any rate requests the administration rejects are automatically held at 2009 levels.

In explosive emails released last week, Robert Dynan, chief of the financial analysis unit at the Division of Insurance, told Commissioner Joseph Murphy that the price caps would cause a "potential train wreck" and threatened "catastrophic consequences for the non-profit industry." Dynan warned that the non-profits, unlike national giants such as WellPoint (WLP, Fortune 500), operate on such slim margins that the controls could drive them into bankruptcy. Even now, four of the biggest insurers are threatening to stop taking new patients at rates so low they lose money on each new enrollee.

 

[GHook93]

Either spend the revenue or give their policy holders a rebate. I can't see insurance companies supporting something like that or lobbying for it!

Obamacare Rebates Are On Their Way To People Who Buy Their Own Insurance - Business Insider
An estimated $1.3 billion will be doled out to individuals and small businesses under a clause in the Affordable Care Act set to kick in this August, according to a new report from Kaiser Permanente. The average rebate will be about $127.

State by state, rebates will vary widely: For example, checks in Alaska, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Idaho, and Mississippi will average between $230 and $300, while New Mexico and Vermont's rebates will be so low ($1) that it's likely insurers won't even have to issue them.

Part of the point of Obamacare was to make insurers adjust the way they prioritized their spending. They'll be required to dedicate at least 80 percent of their revenue on health care claims and quality improvement, with just 20 percent reserved for admin costs, marketing and reeling in profits for investors, Kaiser says.