Obamacare causes prices to skyrocket

[P@triot]

The fact that someone somewhere may have lost coverage or had to switch plans does not mean that Obamacare overall caused people to lose insurance. To try to present it that way, without mention of how many people GAINED insurance because of Obamacare is straight BS.

What an absurd statement. Obamacare absolutely caused people to lose insurance. Millions received notifications that their policies were cancelled because of it. Just because they went out and got another policy (for 4x's the damn cost and half the coverage) doesn't mean they didn't lose their insurance. That's as stupid as saying if someone stole your automobile and you went out to purchase another one so you could get to work, then you didn't really have your automobile stolen.

You know what else Obamacare did? It caused people to lose their jobs or lost tons of money. Millions has their job eliminated or the hours cut so the company could avoid the costly Obamacare requirements.

 

[AntonToo]

What an absurd statement. Obamacare absolutely caused people to lose insurance. Millions received notifications that their policies were cancelled because of it. Just because they went out and got another policy (for 4x's the damn cost and half the coverage) doesn't mean they didn't lose their insurance. That's as stupid as saying if someone stole your automobile and you went out to purchase another one so you could get to work, then you didn't really have your automobile stolen.

I can bring to the fact based well, I can't make you drink out of it.

The way you currently talk about this adds up to lying. That's what this is, because by now you KNOW that overall people have gained insurance under Obamacare and yet what you say still conveys a message contrary to this fact.

Yes some people had to switch insurance, but also there were many more that have GAINED insurance and by not telling that part of the story you and conservatives like you are shamelessly lying.

 

[P@triot]

Obamacare never promised to fix all our healthcare problems, but to improve the situation and lay the groundwork for further reform.

And therein lies the entire problem. It is not the responsibility of the federal government to "fix" your perceived view that we have a healthcare "problem". We had the greatest healthcare in the world before Obamacare. People from all over the planet would come to the U.S. for the finest care available.

And....even if we had the worst healthcare in the world, it is not the responsibility of the federal government to do anything about it. They are explicitly restricted to 18 enumerated powers only and for them to involve themselves in anything beyond those 18 enumerated powers is 100% unconstitutional (i.e. illegal).

 

[P@triot]

What an absurd statement. Obamacare absolutely caused people to lose insurance. Millions received notifications that their policies were cancelled because of it. Just because they went out and got another policy (for 4x's the damn cost and half the coverage) doesn't mean they didn't lose their insurance. That's as stupid as saying if someone stole your automobile and you went out to purchase another one so you could get to work, then you didn't really have your automobile stolen.

I can bring to the fact based well, I can't make you drink out of it.

The way you currently talk about this adds up to lying. That's what this is, because you KNOW that overall people have gained insurance under Obamacare and yet what you say still conveys a message contrary to this fact.

Yes some people had to switch insurance, but also many have GAINED insurance and by not telling that part of the story you and conservatives like you are shamelessly lying.

Again.....that's as stupid as saying someone who bought a new car to replace their stolen care never had their car stolen. It's absurd and you know it.

 

[AntonToo]

Again.....that's as stupid as saying someone who bought a new car to replace their stolen care never had their car stolen. It's absurd and you know it.

Obamacare stole stuff from people - gotcha.

 

[P@triot]

Again.....that's as stupid as saying someone who bought a new car to replace their stolen care never had their car stolen. It's absurd and you know it.

Obamacare stole stuff from people - gotcha.

As a matter of fact - it did. It stole their health insurance from them.

"If you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance". Just one of the thousands of lies that Barack Obama tells on a regular basis (and you're dumb enough to actually believe )

 

[AntonToo]

As a matter of fact - it did. It stole their health insurance from them.

"If you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance". Just one of the thousands of lies that Barack Obama tells on a regular basis (and you're dumb enough to actually believe )

Obama was wrong, plain and simple. For fucks sakes, average insurance policy span is 2.5 years, so to say that all of sudden insurance changes would stop when Obamacare passes is silly. And yes, some of the turnover was due to the reform itself...it wouldn't be an actual REFORM if nothing changed for anyone.

Though thankfully ACA's merits do not rest on what Obama says and if you think market disruption by Obamacare was unacceptable I just hope you don't get to witness the tidal waves it's repeal would cause, including 15 million people losing (unlike you I really do mean losing, not switching) insurance.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

If you are referencing a net loss in coverage, you would be correct.

If you are saying people did not lose insurance because of Obamacare, you would not.

Which is it ?

When we are talking about coverage we are DE FACTO talking about net, overall coverage changes - a difference between insurance lost and insurance gained in system where people always lose and gain insurance in a normal turnover cycle.

The fact that someone somewhere may have lost coverage or had to switch plans does not mean that Obamacare overall caused people to lose insurance. To try to present it that way, without mention of how many people GAINED insurance because of Obamacare is straight BS.

In whose world do you get to determine what is de facto ? That is certainly not consistent.

Yes, you keep bleating about how people "gained" insurance. Does everyone that had it six years ago have it now. No. I know people who lost coverage they had and can't afford to replace it. That is not in dispute.

But, as your graph shows, more people can walk around with insurance cards than had them before.

Many, again, some I know, have been unable to do anything with it...hence, some had dropped it prefering to pay the fine.

As CATO stated so well: "Obamacare made inexpensive insurance illegal."

 

[Sun Devil 92]

[As has been explained in such a way that anyone with a brain can understand.....there are plenty of factors that impact these increases. If you think at 26% increase is a good thing, please say as much.

26% increase is comparatively GREAT when we look at rate increases in the decade leading up to passage of Obamacare.

It doesn't seem you have enough neurons firing to understand that real improvement is always better than some imaginary rainbows and unicorns you have in your head about what successful policy looks like.

Obamacare never promised to fix all our healthcare problems, but to improve the situation and lay the groundwork for further reform.

Funny you can even spell neurons.

What's even more funny is that you call Obamacare "real improvement".

I knew there was an issue starting in the early 90's and have followed the conversation for over 20 years.

Obamacare is a bust.

 

[AntonToo]

In whose world do you get to determine what is de facto ? That is certainly not consistent.
Yes, you keep bleating about how people "gained" insurance. Does everyone that had it six years ago have it now. No. I know people who lost coverage they had and can't afford to replace it. That is not in dispute.

But, as your graph shows, more people can walk around with insurance cards than had them before.

Many, again, some I know, have been unable to do anything with it...hence, some had dropped it prefering to pay the fine.

As CATO stated so well: "Obamacare made inexpensive insurance illegal."

Ok time to go to kinder garden level explanations of how the world works:

If I say to you - I lost money in Vegas, while my losses were $100 at one table and my wins were $500 at another, I would in fact be lying. Even though I did lose, I also won and we DE FACTO take statements to mean overall, net total.

You are lying by omitting people that gained insurance, just as I would be lying if I omitted $500 winnings in my description of what happened in Vegas.

 

[AntonToo]

What's even more funny is that you call Obamacare "real improvement".

I knew there was an issue starting in the early 90's and have followed the conversation for over 20 years.

Obamacare is a bust.

This is not real? Not improvement?

Look, I don't care what you politicos believe, but just to give you heads up - when you deny the obvious and say blatantly false things you just look like mindless rightwing tools.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Obamacare advisor thinks voters are 'stupid' (Opinion) - CNN.com

The guy who thinks liberal voters are 'stupid'

Conservatives knew that socialist medicine is a failure yet the liberal passed it anyway. Boy were you liberals "stupid".

Remember what Obama said.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I just got a notice that the insurance for my employees is going up 14% next year
Right now we pay 90% but I think i'll have to drop it down to 80%

 

[AntonToo]

I just got a notice that the insurance for my employees is going up 14% next year
Right now we pay 90% but I think i'll have to drop it down to 80%

Dang, that never happened before Obamacare got on the scene...right?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I just got a notice that the insurance for my employees is going up 14% next year
Right now we pay 90% but I think i'll have to drop it down to 80%

Dang, that never happened before Obamacare got on the scene...right?

Not that much this is the single highest rate hike in the 10 years we've been in business

 

[AntonToo]

I just got a notice that the insurance for my employees is going up 14% next year
Right now we pay 90% but I think i'll have to drop it down to 80%

Dang, that never happened before Obamacare got on the scene...right?

Not that much this is the single highest rate hike in the 10 years we've been in business

When was the last time it was raised?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I just got a notice that the insurance for my employees is going up 14% next year
Right now we pay 90% but I think i'll have to drop it down to 80%

Dang, that never happened before Obamacare got on the scene...right?

Not that much this is the single highest rate hike in the 10 years we've been in business

When was the last time it was raised?

LAst time was 7% this time it's double

and I thought Obammycare was supposed to lower insurance costs

 

[AntonToo]

I just got a notice that the insurance for my employees is going up 14% next year
Right now we pay 90% but I think i'll have to drop it down to 80%

Dang, that never happened before Obamacare got on the scene...right?

Not that much this is the single highest rate hike in the 10 years we've been in business

When was the last time it was raised?

LAst time was 7% this time it's double

and I thought Obammycare was supposed to lower insurance costs

When was last time though?

ACA was not supposed to lower insurance compared to what was, it was supposed to slow the rate of growth compared to prior years (bend the curve down). As I've shown in historical comparison we certainly have had slower growth since Obamacare was passed (which is not the same as Obamacare-did-it, but some of the slow down is directly attributed to it)

 

[Skull Pilot]

I just got a notice that the insurance for my employees is going up 14% next year
Right now we pay 90% but I think i'll have to drop it down to 80%

Dang, that never happened before Obamacare got on the scene...right?

Not that much this is the single highest rate hike in the 10 years we've been in business

When was the last time it was raised?

LAst time was 7% this time it's double

and I thought Obammycare was supposed to lower insurance costs

When was last time though?

ACA was not supposed to lower insurance compared to what was, it was supposed to slow the rate of growth compared to prior years (bend the curve down). As I've shown in historical comparison we certainly have had slower growth since Obamacare was passed (which is not the same as Obamacare-did-it, but some of the slow down is directly attributed to it)

So the hike doubled and you think that is slowing it down?

And it goes up every year but like I said this is the single highest increase in 10 years

 

[AntonToo]

So the hike doubled and you think that is slowing it down?

And it goes up every year but like I said this is the single highest increase in 10 years

Single biggest hike - gotcha... now about my question re. when was the last time you had an increase...

Single points are nice but most useful to us would be to consider average annual growth.