Obama vs. Catholic Church

[American_Jihad]

Obama's Birth Control Mandate "Compromise" Rejected By Catholics Again

6/16/12 By Kevin Glass

While the Catholic Health Association - which represents the nation's Catholic hospitals - has long been an ally of President Obama, on Friday they officially came out in opposition to the President's controversial contraception mandate in a letter sent to his Department of Health and Human Services.
President Obama had thought that he had put the matter to rest with a "compromise" months ago, the Catholic Health Association has just now spoken up against it.

In a letter to the federal Health and Human Services department, the hospital group said the compromise initially seemed to be "a good first step" but that examination of the details proved disappointing. The plan would be "unduly cumbersome" to carry out and "unlikely to adequately meet the religious liberty concerns" of all its members, the group said.

In its letter, the group said the government should either broaden the exemption for religious employers, or pay directly for the birth control coverage.

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Up until now, this was a state-based problem. But with the federal government setting minimum requirements for insurance, every single person in America will have to follow federal rules for minimum mandatory insurance.


Obama's Birth Control Mandate "Compromise" Rejected By Catholics Again - Kevin Glass


Obama Weighed Politics Before Contraceptive Decision

2/8/12 By Mike Dorning and Margaret Talev

Obama Weighed Religious Politics in Contraceptives Decision - Bloomberg

 

[nitroz]

Boo fucking hoo. They don't pay taxes, so they get no say. (They get no say in the first place because they are a religious group, overexercising their rights into the rights of others)

 

[Sallow]

Boo fucking hoo. They don't pay taxes, so they get no say. (They get no say in the first place because they are a religious group, overexercising their rights into the rights of others)

I seriously don't get how we got to this point.

Religious organizations who don't pay taxes..or want to follow the law..should not be in "for profit" businesses.

This "controversy" illustrates why.

 

[laughinReaper]

Not to be a wiseass but why is this not covered under the "separation of church and state"?

 

[American_Jihad]

Catholic group says Obama’s contraception effort falls short

6/18/12 By Michelle Boorstein

The White House has lost perhaps its most prominent Catholic ally in its controversial effort to expand contraception coverage, with the huge Catholic Health Association saying Friday that the mandate for most religious employers to offer coverage would not “adequately meet the religious liberty concerns.”

The change of position at the association, the country’s largest group of nonprofit health-care providers, comes as polls show President Obama and Mitt Romney tied among registered Catholic voters. For the past four of five presidential races, the candidate who won Catholics won the presidency.

---

Catholic group says Obama’s contraception effort falls short - The Washington Post

 

[PratchettFan]

Not to be a wiseass but why is this not covered under the "separation of church and state"?

It really isn't that simple. Simply because a religious organization owns something, it does not mean that something is itself religious. It comes down to the basic question of "what is a church?". Is a hospital a church just because the owner is? Is a supermarket? Can I, as the owner of a business with a primarily secular purpose, impose my religious beliefs upon my employees? I think that is what it comes down to.

The Supreme Court has already held that a religious organization can impose religious standards upon religious employees - those people whose purpose is to represent the faith. Ministers, priests, teachers, etc. But how is a janitor a religious employee?

If a religious organization chooses to employee non-religious employees, then why should they be exempt from the rules applied to any other employer?

The Catholic Church is arguing this is an imposition upon their freedom of religion. I think it is rather an imposition upon their ability to impose their religious belief upon others.

Whatever one's position might be upon the basic requirement, once a church decides to expand beyond the purely religion and take part in secular business, there is no reason why it should be given any special consideration.

BTW.... churches are not tax free because they are churches. They are tax free because they are non-profits. If they do not have 501c status, they are taxed like anyone else.

 

[Wry Catcher]

As churches get political, IRS stays quiet - Yahoo! News

Religion and ethics at odds. See the following links and ask why the Bishops don't get their own house in order.

U.S. Catholic priest found guilty in child abuse case - Yahoo! News

Pa. monsignor becomes 1st US Catholic official convicted for covering up abuse complaints - Yahoo! News

Pa. Catholic official convicted of endangerment - Yahoo! News

Church cuts jobs amid Philadelphia child sex abuse trial - Yahoo! News

It's time. Require those who want to use the power of the authority of religion to influence our elections to pay their fair share of taxes: Income, real estate, and every single tax that the rest of us pay. They may believe they speak for God, but in my opinion organized religions are as self serving as any other political party.

 

[Sallow]

Cool.

Maybe we can focus on the Nazi Pope again.

 

[bodecea]

Cool.

Maybe we can focus on the Nazi Pope again.

Pope Adolf I? Just Kidding.

 

[California Girl]

Cool.

Maybe we can focus on the Nazi Pope again.

Pope Adolf I? Just Kidding.

I'm sure that the millions who were slaughtered by real actual Nazis share your 'humor' in their murder.... and I'm sure that they wouldn't mind you and Shallow insulting them for cheap 'jokes'.

 

[California Girl]

On topic: Perhaps Obama should not have dragged the Catholic Church into his political bullshit in the first place. When he needed the Church's support, he went begging - and promised Cardinal Dolan that he would ensure that the bill did not conflict with the Church's doctrine. He lied to the Cardinal, to Catholics, and to millions of Christians across this country. Hence the "We're All Catholic Now" campaign. Obama will regret the day he took on the Church.

 

[ThreeofSeven]

Boo fucking hoo. They don't pay taxes, so they get no say. (They get no say in the first place because they are a religious group, overexercising their rights into the rights of others)

I seriously don't get how we got to this point.

Religious organizations who don't pay taxes..or want to follow the law..should not be in "for profit" businesses.

This "controversy" illustrates why.

CHA is not for proofit.

 

[Wry Catcher]

On topic: Perhaps Obama should not have dragged the Catholic Church into his political bullshit in the first place. When he needed the Church's support, he went begging - and promised Cardinal Dolan that he would ensure that the bill did not conflict with the Church's doctrine. He lied to the Cardinal, to Catholics, and to millions of Christians across this country. Hence the "We're All Catholic Now" campaign. Obama will regret the day he took on the Church.

I was baptized and confirmed in the RC Church and consider the actions of the Bishops disgusting. You might consiider my post above for my reasoning, though I suspect you will continue to ignore it for it challenges you and offer your usual reason:

Most people believe my claim.
Therefore, my claim is true.

 

[California Girl]

On topic: Perhaps Obama should not have dragged the Catholic Church into his political bullshit in the first place. When he needed the Church's support, he went begging - and promised Cardinal Dolan that he would ensure that the bill did not conflict with the Church's doctrine. He lied to the Cardinal, to Catholics, and to millions of Christians across this country. Hence the "We're All Catholic Now" campaign. Obama will regret the day he took on the Church.

I was baptized and confirmed in the RC Church and consider the actions of the Bishops disgusting. You might consiider my post above for my reasoning, though I suspect you will continue to ignore it for it challenges you and offer your usual reason:

Most people believe my claim.
Therefore, my claim is true.

Most people believe it so that makes it 'true'? No wonder you struggle with basic things like reality.

It was Obama who dragged the Catholic Church into the healthcare debacle. The Church did not go to him, he called them... Cardinal Dolan. He invited the Cardinal to the White House to discuss his proposed bill, and promised Cardinal Dolan that his concerns regarding birth control etc would be addressed and gave his word that the Church - if it supported the bill - would have nothing to worry about regarding its doctrine. He lied to the Cardinal... he lied to the Catholic Church and to all Christians. Regardless of what you 'believe', he started this fight... not the Catholic Church.

If he is now unhappy with the Church, that's tough shit for him.

 

[Sallow]

Cool.

Maybe we can focus on the Nazi Pope again.

Pope Adolf I? Just Kidding.

I'm sure that the millions who were slaughtered by real actual Nazis share your 'humor' in their murder.... and I'm sure that they wouldn't mind you and Shallow insulting them for cheap 'jokes'.

It's not a joke.

Herr Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger was in the Hitler Youth. Of course Pius did sign a concordat with the Nazis as well..so there is a history.

Reichskonkordat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Greenbeard]

Obama's "compromise," of course, was not actually a compromise at all. Shifting the mandate from employers to insurance companies doesn't mean a thing. Money is fungible, and while it means that Catholic institutions wouldn't have to directly pay to subsidize birth control, it still means that individual Catholics are paying for it.

And yet CHA's proposal is that the federal government pay for contraception coverage directly. So the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon "fungibility" game doesn't seem to be the concern.

 

[California Girl]

Pope Adolf I? Just Kidding.

I'm sure that the millions who were slaughtered by real actual Nazis share your 'humor' in their murder.... and I'm sure that they wouldn't mind you and Shallow insulting them for cheap 'jokes'.

It's not a joke.

Herr Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger was in the Hitler Youth. Of course Pius did sign a concordat with the Nazis as well..so there is a history.

Reichskonkordat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And it is irrelevant to the topic. All children in Hitler's Germany were members of the 'Hitler Youth'. Take your pathetic, obsessive, off topic crap and shove it where the sun don't shine. Mmmk?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

On topic: Perhaps Obama should not have dragged the Catholic Church into his political bullshit in the first place. When he needed the Church's support, he went begging - and promised Cardinal Dolan that he would ensure that the bill did not conflict with the Church's doctrine. He lied to the Cardinal, to Catholics, and to millions of Christians across this country. Hence the "We're All Catholic Now" campaign. Obama will regret the day he took on the Church.

you can't trust a muslim where catholics are concerned......the antipathy goes way back to the crusades...

 

[California Girl]

On topic: Perhaps Obama should not have dragged the Catholic Church into his political bullshit in the first place. When he needed the Church's support, he went begging - and promised Cardinal Dolan that he would ensure that the bill did not conflict with the Church's doctrine. He lied to the Cardinal, to Catholics, and to millions of Christians across this country. Hence the "We're All Catholic Now" campaign. Obama will regret the day he took on the Church.

you can't trust a muslim where catholics are concerned......the antipathy goes way back to the crusades...

That comment is equally as stupid as Swallow's whining about 'nazis'.

The fact of it is that it was Obama who made this the business of the Catholic Church. When he needed their support, he was thankful for them to speak out. Now it is a tad inconvenient... because the Church has not stayed silent about Obama's bullshit and lies.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

On topic: Perhaps Obama should not have dragged the Catholic Church into his political bullshit in the first place. When he needed the Church's support, he went begging - and promised Cardinal Dolan that he would ensure that the bill did not conflict with the Church's doctrine. He lied to the Cardinal, to Catholics, and to millions of Christians across this country. Hence the "We're All Catholic Now" campaign. Obama will regret the day he took on the Church.

you can't trust a muslim where catholics are concerned......the antipathy goes way back to the crusades...

That comment is equally as stupid as Swallow's whining about 'nazis'.

The fact of it is that it was Obama who made this the business of the Catholic Church. When he needed their support, he was thankful for them to speak out. Now it is a tad inconvenient... because the Church has not stayed silent about Obama's bullshit and lies.

there was no political need for BO to create this problem with the Catholics...

i believe he is at core a marxist with muslim leanings......attacking the Church fits right in with his overall agenda....