Obama tries to screw up banking next

[HUGGY]

Because we see how well Obama's solutions are working out for us.
Hack.

Oh when wingnuts go that route, Rabbi, they've lost their train of thought. Then again, may never have formulated one to begin with.

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Okay dokey sport. We had two choices. How do you suspect "can't crash enough planes" McCain would have handled the mess Obama was handed? Would you have just let the whole financial sector completely tank? What shape do you guess we would be in with all business loans completely stopped? How would you see the job market with US automakers completely out of business along with the network of manufacturers and suppliers? If that is the world you were hoping for then piss on you and yours you filthy maggot.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh when wingnuts go that route, Rabbi, they've lost their train of thought. Then again, may never have formulated one to begin with.

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Okay dokey sport. We had two choices. How do you suspect "can't crash enough planes" McCain would have handled the mess Obama was handed? Would you have just let the whole financial sector completely tank? What shape do you guess we would be in with all business loans completely stopped? How would you see the job market with US automakers completely out of business along with the network of manufacturers and suppliers? If that is the world you were hoping for then piss on you and yours you filthy maggot.

I see there's a reason I have you on ignore that goes beyond your second grade anti Semitism.
McCain at least would not have introduced a health care bill and climate change bill that have thrown uncertainty and doubt into the marketplace. A lot of his programs weren't a whole lot different than Obama's, which is why I voted for him reluctantly.
If you count Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, and BMW as "US automakers" then there was never any danger of them going out of business. and they employ plenty of Americans.
As it is, we were promised that a bankruptcy by GM and Chrysler would be the end of the world as we know it. It happened and it wasn't.
But it wasn't a real bankruptcy. In real bankruptcies contracts get abrogated. In this one the bond holders got screwed and the unions got rewarded. GM and Chrysler will be in exactly the same place in a few years because their "bankruptcies" didnt fix what the problem was.
If non bank financial institutions like GMAC had been allowed to fold we would have had a more severe and much shorter recession. We would have been out of it now, with a lot less gov't debt.

 

[Maple]

Stocks have been sliding ever since Massachusettes elected a republican senator.


The stock market doesn't respond well to crazy shit like that.

Actually, I think the market was up the day he was elected and started crashing when Obama needed to take the blame off of himself for this loss and thought that the banks or Bush would be a good diversion. He got into his attack mode the next day and from there it has been downhill in the markets.

Bush just ignores him. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[CMike]

Oh when wingnuts go that route, Rabbi, they've lost their train of thought. Then again, may never have formulated one to begin with.

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Okay dokey sport. We had two choices. How do you suspect "can't crash enough planes" McCain would have handled the mess Obama was handed? Would you have just let the whole financial sector completely tank? What shape do you guess we would be in with all business loans completely stopped? How would you see the job market with US automakers completely out of business along with the network of manufacturers and suppliers? If that is the world you were hoping for then piss on you and yours you filthy maggot.

It's because of Obama that all business loans have virtually stopped.

I would not add a new tax on banking that will be passed on to the consumer.

I would not take over the banking industry. If you are going to give loans then butt out of the operation of the banks.

If you are going to give loans to auto manufactureres butt out of the running of the auto companies, AND don't make backroom deals of keeping open the car dealerships that are friends to Obama while closing others that are not friendly to Obama.

That croynism is part of Obama's corruption.

 

[MaggieMae]

Mike & Rabbi = Dumb and Dumber's solutions to the nation's economic woes.

Because we see how well Obama's solutions are working out for us.
Hack.

Oh when wingnuts go that route, Rabbi, they've lost their train of thought. Then again, may never have formulated one to begin with.

I was referring to the way this lengthy thread devolved into a silly exchange between Mike and Rabbi. My train of thought is always zeroed in on reality.

 

[MaggieMae]

Because we see how well Obama's solutions are working out for us.
Hack.

Oh when wingnuts go that route, Rabbi, they've lost their train of thought. Then again, may never have formulated one to begin with.

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Which would be....??? See that's the problem. All criticism, and no solutions.

I never said his fiscal policies were all successes. Far from it. But what I have and will defend is the way the panic over the investment banks failing one right after another was handled, and I will also defend the anger over the fact that those same people are up to the same type of games that led to their downfall in the first place. The economy isn't "fixed" yet, so if and when the right has some solid solutions on how to FORCE employers to start rehiring, you all will just have to wait until they get over their jitters.

 

[MaggieMae]

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Okay dokey sport. We had two choices. How do you suspect "can't crash enough planes" McCain would have handled the mess Obama was handed? Would you have just let the whole financial sector completely tank? What shape do you guess we would be in with all business loans completely stopped? How would you see the job market with US automakers completely out of business along with the network of manufacturers and suppliers? If that is the world you were hoping for then piss on you and yours you filthy maggot.

I see there's a reason I have you on ignore that goes beyond your second grade anti Semitism.
McCain at least would not have introduced a health care bill and climate change bill that have thrown uncertainty and doubt into the marketplace. A lot of his programs weren't a whole lot different than Obama's, which is why I voted for him reluctantly.
If you count Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, and BMW as "US automakers" then there was never any danger of them going out of business. and they employ plenty of Americans.
As it is, we were promised that a bankruptcy by GM and Chrysler would be the end of the world as we know it. It happened and it wasn't.
But it wasn't a real bankruptcy. In real bankruptcies contracts get abrogated. In this one the bond holders got screwed and the unions got rewarded. GM and Chrysler will be in exactly the same place in a few years because their "bankruptcies" didnt fix what the problem was.
If non bank financial institutions like GMAC had been allowed to fold we would have had a more severe and much shorter recession. We would have been out of it now, with a lot less gov't debt.

Your assessments on how it all WOULD have worked out have of course not been proven. In fact, most economists would strongly disagree with you.

Some of those foreign automakers got subsidies to build in the US. Mercedes, for example, was lured to the State of Alabama which subsidizes its production there in order to lure it into staying, and thus Mercedes remains solvent. But wait... isn't that tantamount to a government "bailout"? I guess "free market principles apply differently depending on the geography.

 

[MaggieMae]

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Okay dokey sport. We had two choices. How do you suspect "can't crash enough planes" McCain would have handled the mess Obama was handed? Would you have just let the whole financial sector completely tank? What shape do you guess we would be in with all business loans completely stopped? How would you see the job market with US automakers completely out of business along with the network of manufacturers and suppliers? If that is the world you were hoping for then piss on you and yours you filthy maggot.

It's because of Obama that all business loans have virtually stopped.

I would not add a new tax on banking that will be passed on to the consumer.

I would not take over the banking industry. If you are going to give loans then butt out of the operation of the banks.

If you are going to give loans to auto manufactureres butt out of the running of the auto companies, AND don't make backroom deals of keeping open the car dealerships that are friends to Obama while closing others that are not friendly to Obama.

That croynism is part of Obama's corruption.

Another urban myth.

 

[The Rabbi]

Oh when wingnuts go that route, Rabbi, they've lost their train of thought. Then again, may never have formulated one to begin with.

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Which would be....??? See that's the problem. All criticism, and no solutions.

I never said his fiscal policies were all successes. Far from it. But what I have and will defend is the way the panic over the investment banks failing one right after another was handled, and I will also defend the anger over the fact that those same people are up to the same type of games that led to their downfall in the first place. The economy isn't "fixed" yet, so if and when the right has some solid solutions on how to FORCE employers to start rehiring, you all will just have to wait until they get over their jitters.

You just really don't get it, do you?
You can't "force" employers to hire. You can't "force" banks to lend. Unless we live in a command economy like the old Soviet Union (and I am sure this is Obama's model) the gov't cannot dictate to people how to behave. Nor should they.
What they can do is go back to policies that both logic and history dictate will work. Those include targeted tax cuts that make working, saving and investing more rewarding. Those include reducing bureaucratic red tape and regulations that do nothing but give jobs to bureaucrats and take them from private businesses.
And Obama's policies are the polar opposite of these proven approaches. And morons like you and him have not and will not learn these lessons. That's why the GOP will retake Congress in Nov and the White house in '12.

 

[MaggieMae]

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Which would be....??? See that's the problem. All criticism, and no solutions.

I never said his fiscal policies were all successes. Far from it. But what I have and will defend is the way the panic over the investment banks failing one right after another was handled, and I will also defend the anger over the fact that those same people are up to the same type of games that led to their downfall in the first place. The economy isn't "fixed" yet, so if and when the right has some solid solutions on how to FORCE employers to start rehiring, you all will just have to wait until they get over their jitters.

You just really don't get it, do you?
You can't "force" employers to hire. You can't "force" banks to lend. Unless we live in a command economy like the old Soviet Union (and I am sure this is Obama's model) the gov't cannot dictate to people how to behave. Nor should they.
What they can do is go back to policies that both logic and history dictate will work. Those include targeted tax cuts that make working, saving and investing more rewarding. Those include reducing bureaucratic red tape and regulations that do nothing but give jobs to bureaucrats and take them from private businesses.
And Obama's policies are the polar opposite of these proven approaches. And morons like you and him have not and will not learn these lessons. That's why the GOP will retake Congress in Nov and the White house in '12.

And 'round and 'round we go. Did the Bush tax cuts create trickle down? NO!!! Did deregulation (er, ignoring existing regulation) create a healthy credit system for business and individuals? NO!!!

So whatever gives you the idea that trying it again is the sole solution? I do agree that eventually major cuts in government spending are necessary, but I also believe that will happen. To hear you guys lament, however, we'll all be pushing carts in open markets soon and bartering goods for services. I believe in the resiliency of the United States of America--its government and its people--which are the same. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel because this particular economic tsunami is only beginning to be tamed, and unlike a real tsunami cannot simply flow back into the sea as if it never happened.

 

[saveliberty]

There is a great deal of talk about deregulation and regulation. I think it misses the mark entirely. We have just done through one of the worst banking crisises in 100 years. Clearly, loans were made that shouldn't have been made. Yet I have not heard of even one banker being brought up on charges of fraud. Enforcement is the problem.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Socialism only begets more Socialism. They are now desperately trying to micromanage our economy. This will only lead to more economic catastrophes. This President really does just need to put his ego aside and stop trying to micromanage our economy. The best thing our Congress could do right now is to simply go away on recess. The less they're around the less damage they can do to our country. Our Congress should meet only a couple of times a year. The Socialists are now micromanaging us into economic Armageddon. It really is very sad.

 

[HUGGY]

Go what route? Pointing out the failed policies of Barak Hussein Obama? His policies are failures, they are disasters of the first order. It was entirely predictable they would be, and in fact were so predicted.
So let's try something that will actually work. Novel idea, I know.

Okay dokey sport. We had two choices. How do you suspect "can't crash enough planes" McCain would have handled the mess Obama was handed? Would you have just let the whole financial sector completely tank? What shape do you guess we would be in with all business loans completely stopped? How would you see the job market with US automakers completely out of business along with the network of manufacturers and suppliers? If that is the world you were hoping for then piss on you and yours you filthy maggot.

I see there's a reason I have you on ignore that goes beyond your second grade anti Semitism.
McCain at least would not have introduced a health care bill and climate change bill that have thrown uncertainty and doubt into the marketplace. A lot of his programs weren't a whole lot different than Obama's, which is why I voted for him reluctantly.
If you count Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, and BMW as "US automakers" then there was never any danger of them going out of business. and they employ plenty of Americans.
As it is, we were promised that a bankruptcy by GM and Chrysler would be the end of the world as we know it. It happened and it wasn't.
But it wasn't a real bankruptcy. In real bankruptcies contracts get abrogated. In this one the bond holders got screwed and the unions got rewarded. GM and Chrysler will be in exactly the same place in a few years because their "bankruptcies" didnt fix what the problem was.
If non bank financial institutions like GMAC had been allowed to fold we would have had a more severe and much shorter recession. We would have been out of it now, with a lot less gov't debt.

Typical.....you just can't help yourself can you. If I was being ignored then why do you respond? You as many of your kind do..speak with a forked toungue.

I've kept it no secret that I have disliked most of those of the Jewish faith that have crossed my path. I was not pre disposed towards this attitude. It was planted and reinforced by your people by direct contact. I have never read nor sought out anti semetic information. All of my belief and information on the subject has come first hand.

Actually I was in my mid twenties when I discovered how worthless a group of people as exist on this planet are the majority of Jews. Previous to that I had many jewish friends and found them trustworthy and congenial.

Then, as I have revealed before, I traveled to the east coast living in Pompano Beach Florida for about 5 years. Much of the East coast is infected with the rudest humans I have ever seen anywhere. They put Israel above this country which shelters these vermin from having to deal with the hatred most peoples of the world deservedly feel towards these purveyors of apartheid and blatant bigotry towards non jews. Most of the problems enjoyed by the people in the mid east could have and should have been handled with diplomacy and humility considering how Israel came into existance in the first place. But sadly you and your kind are not apprciative of the gift provided by the victors of WWII and certainly not good neighbors amidst those of whos land was stolen on your behalf. You are vultures and gouls.

I hope Iran goes nuke and Israel does something even more ignorant than thier past ignorant behavior and Iran turns Tel Aviv into glass beads. Then there will be one less excuse for the treachery against the USA you are so inclined to gravitate to.

As to the OP you don't care about any truth or genuine progress towards solving our countries problems so if you want to just discuss one of the festering sores that ooze pestlance on any real effort to right our ship...we can discuss the treachery of the majority of Jews and the attitudes of those that resent it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Which would be....??? See that's the problem. All criticism, and no solutions.

I never said his fiscal policies were all successes. Far from it. But what I have and will defend is the way the panic over the investment banks failing one right after another was handled, and I will also defend the anger over the fact that those same people are up to the same type of games that led to their downfall in the first place. The economy isn't "fixed" yet, so if and when the right has some solid solutions on how to FORCE employers to start rehiring, you all will just have to wait until they get over their jitters.

You just really don't get it, do you?
You can't "force" employers to hire. You can't "force" banks to lend. Unless we live in a command economy like the old Soviet Union (and I am sure this is Obama's model) the gov't cannot dictate to people how to behave. Nor should they.
What they can do is go back to policies that both logic and history dictate will work. Those include targeted tax cuts that make working, saving and investing more rewarding. Those include reducing bureaucratic red tape and regulations that do nothing but give jobs to bureaucrats and take them from private businesses.
And Obama's policies are the polar opposite of these proven approaches. And morons like you and him have not and will not learn these lessons. That's why the GOP will retake Congress in Nov and the White house in '12.

And 'round and 'round we go. Did the Bush tax cuts create trickle down? NO!!! Did deregulation (er, ignoring existing regulation) create a healthy credit system for business and individuals? NO!!!

So whatever gives you the idea that trying it again is the sole solution? I do agree that eventually major cuts in government spending are necessary, but I also believe that will happen. To hear you guys lament, however, we'll all be pushing carts in open markets soon and bartering goods for services. I believe in the resiliency of the United States of America--its government and its people--which are the same. I'm not even close to throwing in the towel because this particular economic tsunami is only beginning to be tamed, and unlike a real tsunami cannot simply flow back into the sea as if it never happened.

Did the Bush tax cuts in 2001 create prosperity? Yes, as a matter of fact they did. Did his cuts in capital gains end up producing more revenue to the gov't? Why, yes it did. Did deregulation open up new industries in telecom? Why yes it did. Did it lower costs in the airline and brokerage industry? Yes, of course.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

December home sales down 17%. The largest monthly drop in 40yrs. All that Tax Payer Cash given to the corrupt Corporate Bankers and this is all we have to show for it. Yikes!

 

[The Rabbi]

There is a great deal of talk about deregulation and regulation. I think it misses the mark entirely. We have just done through one of the worst banking crisises in 100 years. Clearly, loans were made that shouldn't have been made. Yet I have not heard of even one banker being brought up on charges of fraud. Enforcement is the problem.

OK. let's take it from the top.
It was not "the worst banking crisis in 100 years." There have been all kinds of crises throughout US history. The S&L debacle was even worse. There were petro-dollar loans in the 1970s. The 1930s was obviously worse. So your assertion is wrong.

Second, in any expansion there are always going to be loans made that in retrospect don't make a lot of sense. But at the time it's different. There is an article out there from 2002 or so by Angelo Mozilo talking about why down payments are antiquated. Mozilo was probably the most accomplished mortgage banker when he wrote that. So clearly even experienced people got caught up in the rhetoric, as they always do.

Third, banking was and remains one of the most regulated industries in this country. The failures were not failures of regulation. They were market failures. And market failures should be punished by insolvency and dissolution, not bail outs and bonuses.

Finally, if we criminalize business judgment then we will effectively destroy the free market in this country. Already Sarbanes-Oxley has caused a lot of global companies to make their IPOs elsewhere because of the burdensome regulations and threat of criminal prosecution involved in doing it here.

 

[The Rabbi]

Typical.....you just can't help yourself can you. If I was being ignored then why do you respond? You as many of your kind do..speak with a forked toungue.

I've kept it no secret that I have disliked most of those of the Jewish faith that have crossed my path. I was not pre disposed towards this attitude. It was planted and reinforced by your people by direct contact. I have never read nor sought out anti semetic information. All of my belief and information on the subject has come first hand.

Actually I was in my mid twenties when I discovered how worthless a group of people as exist on this planet are the majority of Jews.

I really don't care why you're an ignorant shit head. But at least you've demonstrated that pretty clearly.

 

[saveliberty]

There is a great deal of talk about deregulation and regulation. I think it misses the mark entirely. We have just done through one of the worst banking crisises in 100 years. Clearly, loans were made that shouldn't have been made. Yet I have not heard of even one banker being brought up on charges of fraud. Enforcement is the problem.

OK. let's take it from the top.
It was not "the worst banking crisis in 100 years." There have been all kinds of crises throughout US history. The S&L debacle was even worse. There were petro-dollar loans in the 1970s. The 1930s was obviously worse. So your assertion is wrong.

Second, in any expansion there are always going to be loans made that in retrospect don't make a lot of sense. But at the time it's different. There is an article out there from 2002 or so by Angelo Mozilo talking about why down payments are antiquated. Mozilo was probably the most accomplished mortgage banker when he wrote that. So clearly even experienced people got caught up in the rhetoric, as they always do.

Third, banking was and remains one of the most regulated industries in this country. The failures were not failures of regulation. They were market failures. And market failures should be punished by insolvency and dissolution, not bail outs and bonuses.

Finally, if we criminalize business judgment then we will effectively destroy the free market in this country. Already Sarbanes-Oxley has caused a lot of global companies to make their IPOs elsewhere because of the burdensome regulations and threat of criminal prosecution involved in doing it here.

Rabbi, cut me some slack. I said oneof the worst. The bank failure rates of the last two years back up my assertion. Fraud is a well established term and any banker who knowingly made a loan to someone without confirmed income or other required information should be sent to court. I clearly stated enforcement was more of an issue than regulation. Regulations are meaningless without enforcement.

 

[The Rabbi]

Rabbi, cut me some slack. I said oneof the worst. The bank failure rates of the last two years back up my assertion. Fraud is a well established term and any banker who knowingly made a loan to someone without confirmed income or other required information should be sent to court. I clearly stated enforcement was more of an issue than regulation. Regulations are meaningless without enforcement.

And yet pawn shops make loans with virtually no documentation all the time. There is nothing inherently wrong with loans that are no-doc and the like.
While there was undoubtedly fraud, it was largely committed by borrowers. Yes, some brokers did too. But this crisis didnt come about because someone bogused an appraisal or a W2. It came about because the incentive to make real estate loans was enormous, leading to lower and lower quality loans.

 

[saveliberty]

Rabbi, cut me some slack. I said oneof the worst. The bank failure rates of the last two years back up my assertion. Fraud is a well established term and any banker who knowingly made a loan to someone without confirmed income or other required information should be sent to court. I clearly stated enforcement was more of an issue than regulation. Regulations are meaningless without enforcement.

And yet pawn shops make loans with virtually no documentation all the time. There is nothing inherently wrong with loans that are no-doc and the like.
While there was undoubtedly fraud, it was largely committed by borrowers. Yes, some brokers did too. But this crisis didnt come about because someone bogused an appraisal or a W2. It came about because the incentive to make real estate loans was enormous, leading to lower and lower quality loans.

Comparing pawn shop loans to home loans??? Fraud committed by the borrowers? They forged W-2s, gave bogus work numbers and faked the calls to their employers? They hid their debts? The greed was on the part of the loan officers, not the borrowers. Many of these borrowers were first-timers. Due diligence on the part of the loan originators should have weeded out the poor loans. Greed led to fraud which begot foreclosure.