Obama to Lift Ban on Overseas Abortion Funding

[mdjgirl7]

mdj, if the law is overturned, abortions will not stop and more mothers will be killed along with their babies, if done back alley, as they were when it was illegal.

My mother in law, God rest her soul, who was 87 when she passed on last year.....she was the coolest old geezer that i have ever known, outside of her mother, who i met when she was 98....

Anyway, there is no one on this earth that I have met that was more Christian than she....

She Loved the Lord, with all her mind, body and soul and when she stayed with us, while my hubby went to work, i spent hours upon hours with her, just reading the Bible and going over scripture.....she had the GREATEST Bible....my brother in law, has it now....and i wish it was my husband that got it after she passed on....

It was a Bible like any other Bible, only it had 60 plus years of her Bible studies, and lessons and thoughts penciled in the sidelines of most every passage....(She was a late bloomer and was 27 when she said she became born again and had the same Bible she had back then)

Anyway, she told me what it was like when she was a young and how many girls she knew that died or were scarred for life from choosing to have a back alley abortion...Which really surprised me....i had thought that it was only girls of this day and age that were having sex outside of marriage and NOT the ladies of the past....no such thing.

And even she, saw the necessity to keep abortion as a legal option. I even argued with her on this.... but she was dead set firm, on it not becoming illegal again....this confounded me for the longest time but her compassion and her trust in God giving us free will, and forgiveness, was beyond my capabilities of understanding at the time, I suppose...

She was convinced that God lets us do what we do....free will.

She was equally convinced that God would be there for every woman that aborted, waiting in the sidelines, for when the time is right, to capture them and bring them to Him....

She witnessed this over the 87 years and time and time again she told me....people that she had thought were wretched, lost, and big time sinners... over time..... "found" the Lord....and that she had spent decades after witnessing all of this, asking God to please forgive her, for the awful things she had said about these people who she was certain were going to burn...and begged God to forgive her, for not having Faith in Him and allowing Him to work, in His mysterious ways, to bring those to Him that belong to Him...it could be the abortion that a girl has had that brings her to Him....is what Margie(MIL) learned over the decades of her life.

Also, only in this past century, did Christians start saying that the soul enters the body at conception.....for thousands of years this was not believed and for hundreds of years the universal Christian church believed that the soul entered the baby to be at 40 days for men and 90 days for women....*don't ask me how they came to these numbers, i never got a chance to read the full article on it!??? other religions have the soul entering the foetus at 120 days....and again, i don't know how they came to these terms, but THEY HAD THEM for some reason?

And Abortion has near always been present, they have records from 2500 years ago of potions that were taken to abort the embryo....of which were traced to today's potions that chemically abort....only, it wasn't single women having sex that aborted the most, it was married women with children....it was thought of as acceptable because nearly half of the women pregnant, died in delivery or their child died in delivery....so the woman had the option to abort with chemical potions....this continued until the mid 1800's....chemical potions were permitted to take by pregnant women that would abort their child to be, and up to the point of quickening, it was legal or permitted. (I realize that child birth is much safer today, and women only have a small chance of dying while delivering)

Anyway, as horrible a circumstance that it is....abortions are nothing new....

So, yes, i hate the sin, but still love the sinner and will be there for any girl or woman, that has gone through this.....

Care

Thank you care for sharing your heart felt letter. I know your mother in law must have been very special to you. Please do not take offense in what I am going to share with you all I ask is if you read this with an open mind.

Yes I am probably older then you think I not a bad thing

I take my opinions for the Bible as well. I totally agree with you no matter what we do abortions will go on with or without us. I totally agree with you on the fact the Lord does give us free will to choose whatever. He expects us to pick his way.

I am one of the few people who has actually read the Bible every page. And no it does not make me better then anyone else. I just don't want you to think I am babbling about a book I never read.

The word states we are made in God's image. God tells he knew us before we were born. I think if the Lord acknowledges our presence who are we not to acknowledge a person who is in the womb.

I still stand my opinion I say no to abortion. If we were to ban abortion yes we would still have women tiring to abort babies by themselves that all goes back to the choice thing. The Lord gives a choice don't have sex outside of marriage he said that for a reason if you did get pregnant you would have a husband to help you and support you it would be 2 adults to handle a child or they could give it up for adoption.

It is not Biblical to kill the unborn it is just not in the Bible. There is the 10 commandments and one of them is Thou shalt not kill. That was not a suggestion it was a commandant. I know the Lord wants us to choose his will and we all know what he wants and yet we do the opposite.

Yes Care I agree with you I hate the sin but love the sinner and no I would never turn my back on someone who has had an abortion but I do not think the Lord would have a baby killed to bring the mother to him. I think he would love for her to come to him no doubt about it. He does not want any of us to perish.

I have to try and keep in mind we are here to please God not man and if by some strange event abortions were to be banned women will still have choices to make like they can not get pregnant give it up for adoption or get rid of it in a alley they would still have choices but nobody would be condoning abortions like we do today.

If anyone would like to point me to scripture where the Lord condones abortions I would be happy to look at it. I seek only the truth and wisdom.


If we go by the pretense women will get abortions so keep it legal we should and excuse this analogy but people are going to continue to drink and drive while not just legalize drunk driving or how about pot we won't stop that either we could just legalize that to. You see where I am going with that. Anything we cannot stop just legalize it and all our troubles will be over.

I just want you to know I do not think anyone is going to hell for having an abortion that is not what gets you to hell it is the denial that Jesus is our risen Lord. We fail to accept his free gift that is what will get you a trip to hell. You can tell who is who by their walk with God

None of us are unforgivable but it does not give us the right to do whatever we please there are always consequences for your actions and we see it now because everyone has just gotten so disconnected from God and life.

 

[mdjgirl7]

and now it is being used to drop them on pakistanis and increasing funding to israel to kill palestinian children. It is also still being used in iraq, although that one appears to have been successfully turned around before bush left office, so the current administration plans to move people from iraq to afghanistan to kill more babies there...

Yeah, good fixin' there...

no amount of wrongs can justify the slaughter of innocent babies

while he does have a point, ultimatley you are right in my opinion. God bless you. If i had more rep points to give today you'd get some. Either way, bless your heart sweety.

ty

 

[Gun Clingin']

no amount of wrongs can justify the slaughter of innocent babies

while he does have a point, ultimatley you are right in my opinion. God bless you. If i had more rep points to give today you'd get some. Either way, bless your heart sweety.

ty

It was my pleasure. In this political climate, you hardly find someone as grounded as you are. Keep being genuine.

 

[Dr Grump]

Your "diss".

What "diss"?

 

[Rusticus]

What are you talking about? Science tells us that it is a unique human life at conception,

Science tells us no such thing. It tells us it is a fertilized egg with unique DNA. Calling it a "unique human life" is simply your reframing of the facts to fit your beliefs.

and that they have an ability to think and even form some aspects of a personality long before they are born.
This is just hyperbole and opinion. The party who ignores science is the one that maintains that it isn't a human life that is ending during an abortion.

Science has nothing to do with it. You claim, wrongly, that science justifies your treating a human fetus as if it were a person.
It is not. Now when you tell me that science has found a fetus that has mastered calculas in the womb, I will have to reconsider.
Untill them, the rights of the woman are paramount and liberty and justice demand that they stay that way.

One can take on the philosophical argument that it isn't a "person" until brain function begins, I can understand that and can even see some legal authority maintaining it as the point of humanity as it is certainly the measure of death of the same. But it is philosophy and not science.

One can attempt to argue about when it is "infused with a soul" but that is a religious argument.

The soul argument, of course, is the reason behind the whole controversy.

One cannot attempt to maintain that it isn't a human life in early development. That is simply impossible to prove as it is already shown to be exactly that. Simply a human in a different stage of development than "infant" or "toddler" or "child" or "pre-teen", et al.

Of course, your whole argument lies in reframing the words fertilized egg or fetus in more emotionally compelling terms.

Is it a "person"? Maybe not. But again, that is a question for philosophers, but the argument about whether it is a human life ended when we discovered DNA.

More correctly, the argument about whether it has the potential to become a human being ended many, many generations ago. The discovery of DNA changed nothing.

Basically the argument is this. I believe the woman has the right to control her body. You believe that the fertilization of an egg gives the state the right to step in and take control of the woman's body.That fertilized egg, gives the state the right to force the woman to carry her pregnancy to term regardless of her wishes and regardless of the circumstances. Is that correct?

You work very hard to find reasons to justify that position. I don't know if those reasons mean anything to anyone, even you. None of them are strong enough, in my opinion, to justifiy forcing a women to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.

 

[Zoom-boing]

You work very hard to find reasons to justify that position. I don't know if those reasons mean anything to anyone, even you. None of them are strong enough, in my opinion, to justifiy forcing a women to carry a pregnancy to term against her will.

Yeah, imagine that some actually believe that human life (which is what a zygote, embryo, fetus, infant, child, youth, adult, middle-aged, senior ALL are) is a valid reason to try and eradicate abortion. Boy those pro-lifers are really off their rockers, huh?

 

[Care4all]

Why bother even having the word BORN in our vocabulary? What does the word even mean? Why not just give us our conception dat as our BIRTH date and issue a BIRTH certificate back when we are a zygote?

Do the frozen empryos get issue a BIRTH certificate...

Do the parents of this embryo get to take a child deduction on their taxes?

Do we issue death certificates to the babies that have naturally miscarried or are aborted?

Are you a parent upon conception or do you become parents when your first baby is BORN or adopted?

What do doctors look for for a baby to be BORN alive? It's first BREATH, no? they slap the butt untill the baby lets out it's first yelp, a sign of breathing, no?

Would you save the frozen embryos in a fire before you would save a living, breathing, human in the same fire?

While all are of the human species, they are different. One is a human being and one is a developing human being....

This does not spoil the argument against women having abortions....a developing human being is very important, because they will be fully developed enough, if let be, to be BORN.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yes, you can get birth and death certificates for miscarried babies. It's quite common.

 

[Ravi]

Can miscarried fetuses sue for future lost wages?

 

[AllieBaba]

No, but people successfully sue doctors and other people all the time for the loss incurred by the death of a baby before it's born....or damage done to a baby before it's born...

 

[AllieBaba]

We got more than a mill for the mother of a baby whose doctor insisted on taking it c-section before the due date. Baby was terribly early, affected with cerebal palsy, lung disorders....

 

[Anguille]

Why bother even having the word BORN in our vocabulary? What does the word even mean? Why not just give us our conception dat as our BIRTH date and issue a BIRTH certificate back when we are a zygote?

Do the frozen empryos get issue a BIRTH certificate...

Do the parents of this embryo get to take a child deduction on their taxes?

Do we issue death certificates to the babies that have naturally miscarried or are aborted?

Are you a parent upon conception or do you become parents when your first baby is BORN or adopted?

What do doctors look for for a baby to be BORN alive? It's first BREATH, no? they slap the butt untill the baby lets out it's first yelp, a sign of breathing, no?

Would you save the frozen embryos in a fire before you would save a living, breathing, human in the same fire?

While all are of the human species, they are different. One is a human being and one is a developing human being....

This does not spoil the argument against women having abortions....a developing human being is very important, because they will be fully developed enough, if let be, to be BORN.

Interesting questions, Care. Especially about when do we issue birth certificates. There are so many new unaddressed issues now that methods of conception, prevention of conception and termination of pregnancy have become more complicated. The old formulas are inapplicable in some of the new situations.

Myself, I am not so much concerned with determining who or what is labeled alive versus not alive. Too me it's a question of who actually is most fully alive as opposed who theoretically might become fully alive in the future. Also who is an American citizen when it comes to our government using it's power to protect the well being of it's citizens and their rights to make personal choices.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, you can get birth and death certificates for miscarried babies. It's quite common.

I think you are wrong allie....

you can get a birth and a death certificate if your baby was birthed stillborn.........

that's it....

 

[Anguille]

Yes, you can get birth and death certificates for miscarried babies. It's quite common.

I think you are wrong allie....

you can get a birth and a death certificate if your baby was birthed stillborn.........

that's it....

That's what my understanding is also. Which begs the questions, do they issue a specific sort of birth certificate for still borns? Is it noted on the certificate that a death certificate was simultaneously issued? I suppose the date on the death certificate indicates when a doctor proclaimed the baby dead, not when it's heart stopped as a fetus in utero.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yes, you can get birth and death certificates for miscarried babies. It's quite common.

I think you are wrong allie....

you can get a birth and a death certificate if your baby was birthed stillborn.........

that's it....

?
Miscarrying is giving birth to a dead baby...or delivering a live baby which dies shorly thereafter.

6 or one, a half dozen of the other. It's the same thing.

Although perhaps you're saying you can't get a birth/death certificate if there's no actual body, in other words miscarriage ..whoops, wait a sec, be back in a flash.

 

[Care4all]

Yes, you can get birth and death certificates for miscarried babies. It's quite common.

I think you are wrong allie....

you can get a birth and a death certificate if your baby was birthed stillborn.........

that's it....

That's what my understanding is also. Which begs the questions, do they issue a specific sort of birth certificate for still borns? Is it noted on the certificate that a death certificate was simultaneously issued? I suppose the date on the death certificate indicates when a doctor proclaimed the baby dead, not when it's heart stopped as a fetus in utero.

i believe the birthing and death times are issued as the same time

 

[Care4all]

a friend, delivered twin stillborns at 7 months or so, and she was issued birth and death certificates.....i am uncertain if it is required, i believe her and her husband asked for them....this was massachusetts...

 

[AllieBaba]

Sorry...
I was checking vital statistics information for the state of Virginia last week, and it caught my eye.

They'll issue for babies 20 weeks or more:

"History: During the 2003 General Assembly legislation was introduced and passed (HB1450 and SB 1267) to establish a new type of vital record for parents who experience a fetal demise of twenty weeks or more. Prior to the legislation the only available documentation was the report of spontaneous fetal death. Effective July 1, 2003 a Certificate of Birth Resulting in a Stillbirth will be issued upon request from the parent.

Note: The Division of Vital Records has spontaneous fetal death reports from 1999 to the present."
Office of Vital Records

Maybe that's the difference as you see it between a miscarriage and stillborn..a miscarriage is before 20weeks? However it's sort of confusing because miscarriage is the term used to define what happens to the mother..."stillborn" refers to the baby.

 

[ProfessorG2]

Dr. Grump, you the man! and so is the guy the ladies adore so much!
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA0TTfqFZg8]YouTube - OBAMA GIRLS MAMA[/ame]​

 

[Care4all]

Sorry...
I was checking vital statistics information for the state of Virginia last week, and it caught my eye.

They'll issue for babies 20 weeks or more:

"History: During the 2003 General Assembly legislation was introduced and passed (HB1450 and SB 1267) to establish a new type of vital record for parents who experience a fetal demise of twenty weeks or more. Prior to the legislation the only available documentation was the report of spontaneous fetal death. Effective July 1, 2003 a Certificate of Birth Resulting in a Stillbirth will be issued upon request from the parent.

Note: The Division of Vital Records has spontaneous fetal death reports from 1999 to the present."
Office of Vital Records

Maybe that's the difference as you see it between a miscarriage and stillborn..a miscarriage is before 20weeks? However it's sort of confusing because miscarriage is the term used to define what happens to the mother..."stillborn" refers to the baby.

good info allie, thanks!

actually, this law is new, and i think now, that i may have read something about a state doing this....a couple of years back....

This was not the case and is not the case in most states....

so after 20 weeks, if a parent wants a birth certificate, they can get a Stillborn one....but there is no death certificate, right? It is the one certificate for both birth and death, called stillBORN?

makes sense at 20 weeks, all's over but the shouting at that point... just a matter of fattening up and dotting some I 's.........a 22 or 23 weeker has survived outside of the womb, i would imagine in just a year or two a 20 week will be able to survive with all the news in medical science happening!