Obama Signs the Hate Crime Bill into Law!

[paperview]

Seems a great majority favor this legislation:



"Americans Support Hate Crimes Legislation

Polls have consistently demonstrated broad public support for hate crimes legislation. A 2007 Gallup poll showed that 68% of Americans favored expanding hate crimes laws to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

A 2007 Hart Research poll showed large majorities of every major subgroup of the electorate — including such traditionally conservative groups as Republican men (56%) and evangelical Christians (63%) — expressed support for strengthening hate crimes laws to include sexual orientation and gender identity. In addition, the legislation is endorsed by over 280 law enforcement, civil rights, civic and religious organizations, including: the International Association of Chiefs of Police, National District Attorneys Association, Presbyterian Church, Episcopal Church, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Young Women’s Christian Association and National Disability Rights Network."

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

So your argument is now that it is popular? I never argued it's popularity.. only what I believed to be it's counterproductiveness.

 

[Polk]

So, the law has descended into mind reading now?

Isn't pre-meditated murder mind reading then?

Red herring.

The silly "hate crimes" laws make an aggravating factor out of the victim being a member of a protected class of individuals, with no other evidence than that of being a member of that protected class.

That's not accurate. It has to be shown that the event was based on the factor.

 

[paperview]

This is an unconstitutional law. It gives special protection through a right not extended to all. I find it interesting that many in the gay community are quite vocal about having equal status on the marriage issue. The arguement goes, we should have equal protection under the law. Where is the outrage from them on being given different protection under the law?

A hate crime law is a variation on the theme for restricted freedom of speech.

The law has been around since 1969.

40 years and no one has successfully challenged its constitutionality?

And if you are straight, you are covered under this law too, if you are a target because of your orientation. Sexual orientation covers ALL orientations.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

40 years and no one has successfully challenged its constitutionality?

Of course not.. if they did they'd be accused of a hate crime and branded a racist and a homophobe. That;s the way this shit works.

 

[saveliberty]

I kill a straight white male - life in prison.
I kill a gay white male -Life plus twenty.

So... what's the message ???

You cheat the system out of twenty years in the second case.

 

[Sunni Man]

Special laws based on the way certain people have sex is just plain idiotic.

What's next?

Special laws to protect vegans based on the type of food they eat???

Do you think Muslims should be protected when they are targeted by hate crime? If a mosque is targeted for terrorism?

Hate crime is terrorism against individuals and groups and has it's goal to terrify anyone in the targeted group and to make them feel unwelcome in our country.

To me hate crimes and terrorism are two different things.

Let's say someone runs a STOP sign and hits my car. I get out of my car and am mad.

This person (who is black, or itialian, or gay, or asian, take your pick) gets loud and mouths off.

I call him a ( wop, or gook, or, ******, or fag, which ever slur fits)

We get into a physical fight amd the cops come and arrest me..

Now it's not just a simple assault and battery.

But it's a serious Federal hate crime. Because I used a racial or sexual orentiation slur while mad.

Was the incident terrorism? Was it really a hate crime??

 

[Polk]

In 2007 (most recent year data is available for), 18.3 percent of victims of hate crimes were targeted due to anti-white bias.

First, you didn't answer the question. The question was "Have there ever been a black charged with a hate crime for attacking whites?" Second, link please to your source.

The stats aren't broken down in that matter. However, unless you assume every victim of anti-white bias was attacked by Asians or Hispanics, his premise that "black people never get charged for it" falls apart.

You can get the numbers for any year from the FBI:
Federal Bureau of Investigation - How To, Use Our Resources

 

[KittenKoder]

The "premeditated" was added to murder to discern the difference between a criminal and someone who just royally fucked up, so it's a bad connection.

 

[saveliberty]

Seems a great majority favor this legislation:



"Americans Support Hate Crimes Legislation

Polls have consistently demonstrated broad public support for hate crimes legislation. A 2007 Gallup poll showed that 68% of Americans favored expanding hate crimes laws to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

A 2007 Hart Research poll showed large majorities of every major subgroup of the electorate — including such traditionally conservative groups as Republican men (56%) and evangelical Christians (63%) — expressed support for strengthening hate crimes laws to include sexual orientation and gender identity. In addition, the legislation is endorsed by over 280 law enforcement, civil rights, civic and religious organizations, including: the International Association of Chiefs of Police, National District Attorneys Association, Presbyterian Church, Episcopal Church, National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, Young Women’s Christian Association and National Disability Rights Network."

What does popularity have to do with whether it is a good law or Constitutional? It was popular to keep blacks in the back of the bus, separate drinking fountains and the like. A law that creates unequal treatment under the law is wrong.

 

[Polk]

Even my Muslim friends hate the radicals.

Of this I have no doubt. However, we never see the general Muslim population as a whole denouncing the extremists. There's no protests, no leaders of the faith coming on talk shows, nothing but silence for the most part.

Speaks volumes?

First, that's not accurate. There were tons of denouncement by Muslim leaders of acts of terrorism.
Second, even if it was accurate, it doesn't prove anything. Do Christian leaders get on national television and denounce abortion clinic bombers?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Bottom line - you can't make a coherent argument that we're all equal and simultaneously argue that we all need special laws applied to us based on what group we belong to. It is an intellectually bankrupt position.

 

[Oddball]

Black punk shoots a couple of Jewish guys in L.A.

I wonder how that one is going to shake out....Which PC protected class holds trump here?

 

[paperview]

Bottom line - you can't make a coherent argument that we're all equal and simultaneously argue that we all need special laws applied to us based on what group we belong to. It is an intellectually bankrupt position.

I think the funding aspect is a part people miss.

If a small community experiences one or two churches being burned, with strong evidence to suggest the arsonists were targeting it because they were Pentecostals, for example, often times the local force does not have the manpower nor the funding to investigate some of these cases.

This allows more governmental resources to help what the local community may not have the ability or money to do.

 

[paperview]

Keep in mind, they still have to be tried successfully in a court of law.

Traditionally, Hate Crimes have been very hard to prove.

The conviction rate for this crime is very low, IIRC.

 

[KittenKoder]

Keep in mind, they still have to be tried successfully in a court of law.

Traditionally, Hate Crimes have been very hard to prove.

The conviction rate for this crime is very low, IIRC.

Thus is why it's illogical to have the laws. As I said, we see witch-hunts because of them (they are in essence the same thing really) while most are not even caught in the first place. Many times the police will often slack on even investigating crimes once they are called "hate crime", at least in my area.

 

[Emma]

So, the law has descended into mind reading now?

You don't think the law considers intent when a person is charged? Really?

 

[Oddball]

Intent to rob, rape, beat and kill is the point of law in the first place.....Not too difficult to tell who intends to commit a violent act.

Being a bigot is not a violent act, in and of itself.

 

[Emma]

Intent to rob, rape, beat and kill is the point of law in the first place.....Not too difficult to tell who intends to commit a violent act.

So killing is killing, eh?

 

[Oddball]

Pretty much....Doesn't get much worse than murder.

Please see #133.