Obama in space

[Navy1960]

Are you intentional refusing to understand me ? I've already acknowledged the benefits of zero gravity experiments. One doesn't need to go any further than we already are to do that. The technologies that you speak of were needed on Earth BEFORE we went to space. Could science only address those needs in the context of space travel ?

No not at all, I thought I was addressing your questions as you presented them. However , the technologies that I speak of were not even thought of until the space program , so to say they were needed on Earth is stretching it at best. To answer your last question, it depends, as some of the technologies developed for space flight , the concept that there actually was a need for them , did not come about until after they were developed. I see nothing wrong with anything that dwells into research that benefits everyone, and NASA has a long history of doing just that. So to limit their research abilities , limits development of technolgies and discoveries that benefit us all. To simply say that Science here on Earth or in Low Earth Orbit can accomplish what can be accomplished by not going back to the moon or Mars is rather short sighted and history does not support that arguement. Besides, as I mentioned above even low earth orbit will be out of reach for the United States soon, unless this project is fully funded.

 

[N4mddissent]

When Ares I-X blasts off from NASA's Kennedy Space Center next spring, the smoke and fire will trigger a data-gathering frenzy that is a key to man's return to the moon and travel beyond.

Ares I-X is the first test flight in the development of the Ares I rocket, part of NASA's new fleet of spacecraft in the Constellation Program. Beginning in 2015, the Ares I rocket will launch the Orion crew exploration vehicle, its crew of four to six astronauts and small cargo payloads to the International Space Station. The rocket also will be used for missions to explore the moon and beyond in the coming decades.

In 122 seconds, an eye blink more than Big Brown took to win the Kentucky Derby, 149 sensors will take 162 measurements aboard a replica of the crew module that will carry man back to the moon and on its launch abort system atop the rocket stack.

NASA - The Fast and the Furious: Ares I-X Data Collection

This is the Ares that is slated to replace the Shuttle.

That's just kick ass. It ranks up there with the Large Hadron Collider. I was fortunate enough to watch a night shuttle launch from Kennedy once. That's seriously powerful. It was definitely awe-inspiring and gave me a bump of pride in what humans can accomplish.

 

[jschuck12001]

Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic candidate for president, held a town hall meeting near the Kennedy Space Center today and vowed strong support for NASA, saying he favors at least one shuttle flight beyond the 10 missions left on the agency's manifest. Obama also said he would work to close the gap between the end of shuttle operations in 2010 and the debut of the Orion spacecraft that will replace it and said earlier reports that he would divert money from NASA's next manned spacecraft to education were unfounded.

Obama was introduced to an enthusiastic crowd of about 1,300 at the Brevard Community College by Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL), who flew as a payload specialist aboard the shuttle Columbia in 1986. In his opening remarks, Obama delivered his most detailed statement yet on space policy as NASA implements the Bush administration's drive to complete the space station and retire the shuttle fleet by the end of fiscal 2010.

NASA hopes to replace the shuttle with smaller Orion capsules and huge, unmanned cargo boosters, known collectively as the Constellation program. The goal is to use Orion spacecraft to carry astronauts to and from the station while developing the heavy-lift Ares 5 rocket that will help NASA establish a moon base around 2020.

Under the Bush administration's plan, the money to pay for the Constellation program primarily will come from funds that now go to the shuttle and space station programs. The Orion spacecraft and its Ares 1 booster are under development, but near-term funding shortfalls will result in a four- to five-year gap between the end of shuttle operations and the advent of routine operations with Orion. During that gap, U.S. astronauts will be forced to hitch rides to the station aboard Russian Soyuz spacecraft.

Today, Obama said he supports the Constellation program and will work to narrow the gap between the end of shuttle operations and the advent of Orion.

"I know it's still being reported that we were talking about delaying some aspects of the Constellation program to pay for our early education program," he said. "I told my staff we're going to find an entirely different offset because we've got to make sure that the money that's going into NASA for basic research and development continues to go there. That has been a top priority for us. This is an administration that's been anti-science. Whether it's on stem cell research, whether it's on climate change, they have rejected science. I want to reverse that trend, I want us to be a science-based society and I want us to invest in science."

Spaceflight Now | Breaking News | Obama vows NASA support during visit to Florida


Obama supporters, it's been very difficult for me to find current information on this other than the Obama web page. However. if you look at how he plans to fund early education, one of the lines he mentions is a plan to cut funding for the constellation program by delaying it for 5 years. That would mean that the United States after 2010 till 2020 would have no capability to put their own people into space. In case you have not noticed China yesterday conducted a space walk with their own astronauts and plan on going to the moon in the next 7 years. Also, India just launched a moon program yesterday as well. Am I one of the few that thinks it's still important to have a manned space flight program? The benefits from this are many and proven. So if an Obama supporter can convince me on this one is he currently still planning to keep the program or not?

Well Navy, this is something that not all agree on but if it comes down to education or space flight then I pick education. A more educated society means a more productive society. Its amazing how kids in other countries speak several languages and the American child only speaks english. We are getting outworked and out educated by other countries.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Point of order---things that are developed for space missions are developed BEFORE the mission. Is science so blind that they cannot see what is needed on earth in order to create it or do they have to pretend they are going to Mars ? I understand the importance of the science that is done in zero gravity but we can achieve that in earth orbit.

Science isn't blind. It needs inspiration. Space travel sparks the part of our intellect that allows these things to be thought up. It is called imagination. Imagination needs a catalyst. Space travel is just that.

 

[dilloduck]

Science isn't blind. It needs inspiration. Space travel saprks teh part of our intellect that allows these things to be thought up. It is called imagination. Imagination needs a catalyst. Space travel is just that.

Maybe some scientists need the big ego boost of space but let's not forget the ones who are in touch enough with people to become inspired. Let's also not forget how quickly the "research" of space led to the arms race and nearly an atomic war.

 

[jschuck12001]

Maybe some scientists need the big ego boost of space but let's not forget the ones who are in touch enough with people to become inspired. Let's also not forget how quickly the "research" of space led to the arms race and nearly an atomic war.

You bring up a good point, If space travel and research correlates to national security then I think its needed. We dont want the Chinese and others developing new weapons technology to find out we are behind the 8 ball. Sometimes the best defense is when the enemy knows you hold the same technology they do.

 

[N4mddissent]

Well Navy, this is something that not all agree on but if it comes down to education or space flight then I pick education. A more educated society means a more productive society. Its amazing how kids in other countries speak several languages and the American child only speaks english. We are getting outworked and out educated by other countries.

The key is, it doesn't have to be that choice. There are plenty of other areas to cut. The thing that pisses me off the most thought, is the interest on the national debt. It is mandatory spending and is one of the largest item in the budget, just behind social security, health and human services, and defense. We talk about passing the buck to our kids, but we're paying for overspending now too. And paying off interest is just flushing money down the toilet.

This chart shows a breakdown of relative budget spending. Near the bottom you'll see HHS, Defense, and Interest with SS separate

 

[dilloduck]

The key is, it doesn't have to be that choice. There are plenty of other areas to cut. The thing that pisses me off the most thought, is the interest on the national debt. It is mandatory spending and is the third largest item in the budget, just behind social security, health and human services, and defense. We talk about passing the buck to our kids, but we're paying for overspending now too. And paying off interest is just flushing money down the toilet.

This chart shows a breakdown of relative budget spending. Near the bottom you'll see HHS, Defense, and Interest with SS separate

Well start prioritizing. What do we cut first ?

 

[DiamondDave]

How is a base on the moon or colonizing Mars going to benefit people ?
(and I'm not talking about the incidental things they dream up along the way like Tang)

Because we as a species are explorers.. we stagnate in our advancement, and we perish

Learning how to build livable environments in the harsh environment of Mars can have numerous benefits here on Earth.... not only in what we learn but the technology advances that come from the space program and drive our industry for decades

 

[N4mddissent]

Maybe some scientists need the big ego boost of space but let's not forget the ones who are in touch enough with people to become inspired. Let's also not forget how quickly the "research" of space led to the arms race and nearly an atomic war.

Good point dillo. The standard science response is that science itself is neutral, but it has definitely be used for harm. I don't think scientists need the ego boost of space, but I would not mind seeing a little more excitement in the general public about science that a revamped shiny new space program might inspire. But I won't hold my breath- Maybe no movie star will have a binge or some stupid new reality show debut when the first launch is scheduled and the public may pay attention.

 

[N4mddissent]

Science isn't blind. It needs inspiration. Space travel saprks teh part of our intellect that allows these things to be thought up. It is called imagination. Imagination needs a catalyst. Space travel is just that.

Damn, Crimson. Talking about that science stuff being good can get you in trouble in bama can't it. (remembering I'm from the deep south too, actually I live about 45 miles from the Alabama state line- sh don't tell anyone ). Actually Huntsville is pretty cool.

 

[dilloduck]

Because we as a species are explorers.. we stagnate in our advancement, and we perish

Learning how to build livable environments in the harsh environment of Mars can have numerous benefits here on Earth.... not only in what we learn but the technology advances that come from the space program and drive our industry for decades

We don't even understand the Earth yet. How about this. We try to build livable environments for harsh environments and build them on Earth where someone can actually live in them ?

I don't mind explorers--I love exploring--I do it in Texas all the time and I pay for my own exploration.

 

[N4mddissent]

Well start prioritizing. What do we cut first ?

Well I looked at this graph.

And didn't see anything I would want to take away from. So I propose a 1% excise sales tax on all cd's, dvd's, and video games sold in this country. Let's let the stuff that's rotting our brains help make us smarter.

 

[Chris]

Well I looked at this graph.

And didn't see anything I would want to take away from. So I propose a 1% excise sales tax on all cd's, dvd's, and video games sold in this country. Let's let the stuff that's rotting our brains help make us smarter.

How about a 1% tax on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms?

 

[Navy1960]

Well Navy, this is something that not all agree on but if it comes down to education or space flight then I pick education. A more educated society means a more productive society. Its amazing how kids in other countries speak several languages and the American child only speaks english. We are getting outworked and out educated by other countries.

I completely agree on education and productivity jschuck, however as a general rule when you look at the budget of NASA and what you get in return for that small budget, it is money well spent. I will also suibmit to you that especially in the sciences that space flight is education and stretches knowledge in all fields, math, science, geology, and many others.

 

[Navy1960]

Let me give you some budget insight , given that NASA's FY09 Budget is 17.9 Billion, and the cost of the cancelled Comanche Helicopter, Crusader Artillery Vehicle, and money spent on the the LCS Litorial Combat Ship combined has been over 67 billion dollars and none of those programs are online , and in fact two of them have been cancelled , how much of NASA's budget could have been funded had congress managed the budget better and for that matter DoD.

 

[N4mddissent]

How about a 1% tax on alcohol, tobacco, and firearms?

They're taxed to hell and back. At least the alcohol and tobacco. I say tax cd's, dvd's, and video games. I like all three, but I know they suck away my brain when I could be learning. Isaac Newton checked out 3 math books from a library at age 16 (I believe, using memory alone here) taught himself math, and in 3 months was publishing mathematical papers, and in 6 months was considerered one of the best mathematical minds of his time. He went on from there to invent calculus and discover the laws of gravity as well as the earliest studies into the nature of light. How much would he have gotten done listening to Slipknot, watching American Pie, and playing Madden 1654?

 

[N4mddissent]

Let me give you some budget insight , given that NASA's FY09 Budget is 17.9 Billion, and the cost of the cancelled Comanche Helicopter, Crusader Artillery Vehicle, and money spent on the the LCS Litorial Combat Ship combined has been over 67 billion dollars and none of those programs are online , and in fact two of them have been cancelled , how much of NASA's budget could have been funded had congress managed the budget better and for that matter DoD.

You said it brother. Can I get an amen. I just wish the budget wasn't so damn complex that it takes hours to go through and find detailed information on how our money is spent. The pie charts and things are nice for a quick reference, but the sort of imformation you just gave isn't easy to catch.

 

[dilloduck]

You said it brother. Can I get an amen. I just wish the budget wasn't so damn complex that it takes hours to go through and find detailed information on how our money is spent. The pie charts and things are nice for a quick reference, but the sort of imformation you just gave isn't easy to catch.

How quickly we forget-----we need to CUT spending---do without something !!
Everyone got that ?

 

[Navy1960]

Here is another thing about inspiration, NASA has inspired the commercial application os space flight with the Ansari X Prize which was one recently by a team led by Burt Rutan and Richard Branson. They now are building a a commercial space flight vehicle and company called Virgin Galactic and are completely sold out for years in the number of flights they are offering. This is no gimmick, this is just the beginning of a whole new era in space flight and it's the inspiration of agencies like NASA and DARPA that give way to this sort of thing. So to simply dismiss it and say that it's not needed or we can do it here on Earth is a way of saying we no longer wish to dream and go beyond the horizon.


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