Obama: If We Lose in 2012, Government Will Tell People ‘You’re on Your Own’

[Jarhead]

The fed gov plays a role. If we just let states do whatever they want, then that's exactly what they'll do. That's why we need federal programs and depts - like the EPA and a federal health care law, for example.

And are you seriously suggesting that people in the US don't die from starvation or lack of health care? You can pretend that everything is all rosy, but that simply isn't the case.

Not according the U.S Constitution.....but why would our supposed Constitutional Scholar President bother with what it actually says ?

We don't need a federal EPA and we don't need what is termed "Obamacare".

And if you can produce something of substance on people starving to death or dying because of lack of health care (the study was done 10 years ago...that means about 500,000 have passed since then.....not that I have heard about them in mass....but lets forget the 1,800,000 people who will have died from smoking related disease......BTW: 45,000 is how many out of 300,000,000 ? Answer 0.015%....how can you even show statistical significance at those low numbers against an entire population that has so many diverse characteristics and environments (I dunno....maybe no healthcare means no Kevlar vests in Chicago).

Looking for that data.

So because it's not explicitly in the Constitution, then it isn't valid? Whatever.

You can keep looking for that data. You want to deny it, then prove it. I'm not doing your research for you. You're the one who brought it up in the first place. People in the US do die from lack of health care and from starvation. Maybe 0.015% means nothing to you, but I'm guessing the real people behind those numbers don't think it's so insignificant. How conscientious of you to dismiss them, though.

people do not have to die of starvation in the US...those that do simply refuse to eat...but there are soup kitchens, missions, chuches and other venues that offer free meals to anyone who want.
As for healthcare....there are people that gambled and lost the gamble and as sad as that is, it was a gamble. They opted to spend little, if anything on an insurance plan assuming they would never get sick. And sadly for them, they lost the gamble.

You may want to take that rightous position of "no one needs to die"......and I admire that....but I also look at reality....people make stupid choices.

 

[Listening]

So because it's not explicitly in the Constitution, then it isn't valid? Whatever.

You can keep looking for that data. You want to deny it, then prove it. I'm not doing your research for you. You're the one who brought it up in the first place. People in the US do die from lack of health care and from starvation. Maybe 0.015% means nothing to you, but I'm guessing the real people behind those numbers don't think it's so insignificant. How conscientious of you to dismiss them, though.

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

 

[J.E.D]

So because it's not explicitly in the Constitution, then it isn't valid? Whatever.

You can keep looking for that data. You want to deny it, then prove it. I'm not doing your research for you. You're the one who brought it up in the first place. People in the US do die from lack of health care and from starvation. Maybe 0.015% means nothing to you, but I'm guessing the real people behind those numbers don't think it's so insignificant. How conscientious of you to dismiss them, though.

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

So because it's not explicitly in the Constitution, then it isn't valid? Whatever.

You can keep looking for that data. You want to deny it, then prove it. I'm not doing your research for you. You're the one who brought it up in the first place. People in the US do die from lack of health care and from starvation. Maybe 0.015% means nothing to you, but I'm guessing the real people behind those numbers don't think it's so insignificant. How conscientious of you to dismiss them, though.

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

All you need to know about this cement-head.

 

[Jarhead]

So because it's not explicitly in the Constitution, then it isn't valid? Whatever.

You can keep looking for that data. You want to deny it, then prove it. I'm not doing your research for you. You're the one who brought it up in the first place. People in the US do die from lack of health care and from starvation. Maybe 0.015% means nothing to you, but I'm guessing the real people behind those numbers don't think it's so insignificant. How conscientious of you to dismiss them, though.

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

you ignored my post...or maybe you have me on ignore?

A good portion of those that dies due to the lack of helathcare, died becuase the opted to take the chance thinking they would never get sick.
I always saw the cost of healthcare as a cost of living. Just as my rent or mortgage, my food bills, my laundry bills, my utilities. It has always been a constant in my life and my lifestyle suffered so I could be covered......when I say it suffered...I mean I had 10K (give or take) less disposable income to use as I wish.

But many people who can afford the healthcare, opted to go to aruba for 2 weeks...and Skiing for 2 weeks.....and took the chance.

And then they sadly got sick.

So take that percentage and drop it down even more...I have sympathy for people dying....but little tolerance for stupid selfish decisions.

 

[J.E.D]

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

All you need to know about this cement-head.

Did you have something of substance to say, or are satisfied with talking nonsense out of your ass?

 

[Douger]

So one party is " you're on your own to suffer" a slow death and the other is" we need to keep you safe from Evul turra riss."
What a circus.

 

[Jarhead]

So because it's not explicitly in the Constitution, then it isn't valid? Whatever.

You can keep looking for that data. You want to deny it, then prove it. I'm not doing your research for you. You're the one who brought it up in the first place. People in the US do die from lack of health care and from starvation. Maybe 0.015% means nothing to you, but I'm guessing the real people behind those numbers don't think it's so insignificant. How conscientious of you to dismiss them, though.

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

just so you understand...

COnservatives DO expect it to be followed to the letter. That is what makes us conservatives.

Those that are not conservatives are the ones that say it is a living document so they can "tweak it" to meet thier wishes....

THAT is what the debate between the two ideologies is all about...so when you are in a debate with a conservative...to say it is a living document and NO ONE expects you to follow it ot the letter...you are saying "I dont know what a conservative is".

I hope this helps you debate in the future.

 

[OldUSAFSniper]

If Barry and the Democrats lose in 2012... THANK GOD!!!!

Can you imagine if some of these whiny, lazy people had to actually go out and make a living? Why, it would literally KILL some of them.

It's still the biggest joke in this country... "Hi, I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

 

[J.E.D]

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

you ignored my post...or maybe you have me on ignore?

A good portion of those that dies due to the lack of helathcare, died becuase the opted to take the chance thinking they would never get sick.
I always saw the cost of healthcare as a cost of living. Just as my rent or mortgage, my food bills, my laundry bills, my utilities. It has always been a constant in my life and my lifestyle suffered so I could be covered......when I say it suffered...I mean I had 10K (give or take) less disposable income to use as I wish.

But many people who can afford the healthcare, opted to go to aruba for 2 weeks...and Skiing for 2 weeks.....and took the chance.

And then they sadly got sick.

So take that percentage and drop it down even more...I have sympathy for people dying....but little tolerance for stupid selfish decisions.

I don't disagree that some people decided to forgo health insurance because they thought they wouldn't get sick. But there are plenty in the US who simply can't afford it whether they want it or not. The staggering rise in the cost of health insurance is criminal. I'm self-employed. I can't afford to buy health insurance on my own because the monthly payments are beyond my range. I do qualify for state insurance for people with low-income, but everybody is not that "lucky". The contractor I work for earns too much for state aid, so he pays for his and his wife's health insurance out of pocket - it's over $2k per month. Maybe the ACA isn't the right solution (I would prefer single payer or at least a public option), but something has to be done. We cannot sustain this.

 

[J.E.D]

Yeah, why would we want to follow the constitution. It is a just a piece of paper that congress uses to wipes it's collective rears.

I do deny it. The assertions have been bunk from the start. Show us examples please....or don't you have any ?

You obviously don't understand statistics. 0.015% can be teased out of the population data ? Especially using the methods of the Harvard analysis. I don't dismiss them....becsue they don't exist.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

just so you understand...

COnservatives DO expect it to be followed to the letter. That is what makes us conservatives.

Those that are not conservatives are the ones that say it is a living document so they can "tweak it" to meet thier wishes....

THAT is what the debate between the two ideologies is all about...so when you are in a debate with a conservative...to say it is a living document and NO ONE expects you to follow it ot the letter...you are saying "I dont know what a conservative is".

I hope this helps you debate in the future.

I realize that conservatives don't see it as a living document, I just don't understand the reasoning. Nobody, not even conservatives, follows the Constitution to the letter. Conservatives like to talk like they do, but that simply is not the true. Case in point - conservatives have recently pushed for a balanced budget amendment and an amendment that would define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Obviously, conservatives do like to change the Constitution when it's something they favor.

 

[Sunshine]

Pay attention to the left hand, here's what I hear him saying.

Middle Class America isn't capable of doing anything on their own, they're not smart enough. They need government entitlements or they're going to starve and die. OMG you should have to pay for the education YOU want. You don't have the ability to make decisions that affect you, only the government knows best.

Dumbing down Americans and making them more and more dependent on Government only serves one purpose, to prevent them from becoming part of the 1% they so loathe. This is murder of the American Dream, this is why 1% have the majority of the wealth. You're being told you're too stupid to get there without government help.

1% is much easier to manipulate so they can get the $ they need to enhance their lifestyles. God forbid they had a group of 20% with $ that might oppose their ideals. Too many people having millions would put a real damper on their agenda.

The Middle Class has been redefined by this administration, they don't want you to make it on your own, they don't want a Middle Class, they want rich and poor yet, he has most convinced it's the Republicans making this happen. He truly has mastered the ability to convince people it's always someones fault other than your own. His never ending blame on someone else or something else is a clear indication of how he views the American people. It's not your fault, you don't have to claim responsibility. The government will come in on their white horse and rescue you.

This may come as some surprise to you but I, yes I -a lone woman -paid every dime of my children's education, every dime of my BSN, and every dime of my JD. I got a scholarship based on achievement and not need for my MSN. The government has done nothing for me other than a little SS after my husband's death and that was an entitlement that WE paid for. I didn't even get Clinton's tuition tax credit because I, a lone woman, made more than 50K. If I had been a couple making 99K I would have gotten it. I have paid taxes since I was 16. I get to use the roads, parks, lakes, etc. just like people who never paid a dime. Isn't that nice?

So fuck you and your president. I don't need either of you.

 

[J.E.D]

Pay attention to the left hand, here's what I hear him saying.

Middle Class America isn't capable of doing anything on their own, they're not smart enough. They need government entitlements or they're going to starve and die. OMG you should have to pay for the education YOU want. You don't have the ability to make decisions that affect you, only the government knows best.

Dumbing down Americans and making them more and more dependent on Government only serves one purpose, to prevent them from becoming part of the 1% they so loathe. This is murder of the American Dream, this is why 1% have the majority of the wealth. You're being told you're too stupid to get there without government help.

1% is much easier to manipulate so they can get the $ they need to enhance their lifestyles. God forbid they had a group of 20% with $ that might oppose their ideals. Too many people having millions would put a real damper on their agenda.

The Middle Class has been redefined by this administration, they don't want you to make it on your own, they don't want a Middle Class, they want rich and poor yet, he has most convinced it's the Republicans making this happen. He truly has mastered the ability to convince people it's always someones fault other than your own. His never ending blame on someone else or something else is a clear indication of how he views the American people. It's not your fault, you don't have to claim responsibility. The government will come in on their white horse and rescue you.

This may come as some surprise to you but I, yes I -a lone woman -paid every dime of my children's education, every dime if my BSN, and every dime of my JD. I got a scholarship based on achievement and not need for my MSN. The government has done nothing for me other than a little SS after my husband's death and that was an entitlement that WE paid for. I didn't even get Clinton's tuition tax credit because I, a lone woman, made more than 50K. If I had been a couple making 99K I would have gotten it. I have paid taxes since I was 16. I get to use the roads, parks, lakes, etc. just like people who never paid a dime. Isn't that nice?

So fuck you and your president. I don't need either of you.

Nobody in this country pays zero in taxes. Everybody pays sales tax, gas tax, etc. And BTW, he's your president too - unless you're not an American citizen.

 

[Sunshine]

Pay attention to the left hand, here's what I hear him saying.

Middle Class America isn't capable of doing anything on their own, they're not smart enough. They need government entitlements or they're going to starve and die. OMG you should have to pay for the education YOU want. You don't have the ability to make decisions that affect you, only the government knows best.

Dumbing down Americans and making them more and more dependent on Government only serves one purpose, to prevent them from becoming part of the 1% they so loathe. This is murder of the American Dream, this is why 1% have the majority of the wealth. You're being told you're too stupid to get there without government help.

1% is much easier to manipulate so they can get the $ they need to enhance their lifestyles. God forbid they had a group of 20% with $ that might oppose their ideals. Too many people having millions would put a real damper on their agenda.

The Middle Class has been redefined by this administration, they don't want you to make it on your own, they don't want a Middle Class, they want rich and poor yet, he has most convinced it's the Republicans making this happen. He truly has mastered the ability to convince people it's always someones fault other than your own. His never ending blame on someone else or something else is a clear indication of how he views the American people. It's not your fault, you don't have to claim responsibility. The government will come in on their white horse and rescue you.

This may come as some surprise to you but I, yes I -a lone woman -paid every dime of my children's education, every dime if my BSN, and every dime of my JD. I got a scholarship based on achievement and not need for my MSN. The government has done nothing for me other than a little SS after my husband's death and that was an entitlement that WE paid for. I didn't even get Clinton's tuition tax credit because I, a lone woman, made more than 50K. If I had been a couple making 99K I would have gotten it. I have paid taxes since I was 16. I get to use the roads, parks, lakes, etc. just like people who never paid a dime. Isn't that nice?

So fuck you and your president. I don't need either of you.

Nobody in this country pays zero in taxes. Everybody pays sales tax, gas tax, etc. And BTW, he's your president too - unless you're not an American citizen.

So how much state sales tax or gas tax goes into SS? OF SSI for that matter? People on SSI do not pay in. And what those taxes go for depends on the STATE that collects them.

 

[naturegirl]

Pay attention to the left hand, here's what I hear him saying.

Middle Class America isn't capable of doing anything on their own, they're not smart enough. They need government entitlements or they're going to starve and die. OMG you should have to pay for the education YOU want. You don't have the ability to make decisions that affect you, only the government knows best.

Dumbing down Americans and making them more and more dependent on Government only serves one purpose, to prevent them from becoming part of the 1% they so loathe. This is murder of the American Dream, this is why 1% have the majority of the wealth. You're being told you're too stupid to get there without government help.

1% is much easier to manipulate so they can get the $ they need to enhance their lifestyles. God forbid they had a group of 20% with $ that might oppose their ideals. Too many people having millions would put a real damper on their agenda.

The Middle Class has been redefined by this administration, they don't want you to make it on your own, they don't want a Middle Class, they want rich and poor yet, he has most convinced it's the Republicans making this happen. He truly has mastered the ability to convince people it's always someones fault other than your own. His never ending blame on someone else or something else is a clear indication of how he views the American people. It's not your fault, you don't have to claim responsibility. The government will come in on their white horse and rescue you.

This may come as some surprise to you but I, yes I -a lone woman -paid every dime of my children's education, every dime if my BSN, and every dime of my JD. I got a scholarship based on achievement and not need for my MSN. The government has done nothing for me other than a little SS after my husband's death and that was an entitlement that WE paid for. I didn't even get Clinton's tuition tax credit because I, a lone woman, made more than 50K. If I had been a couple making 99K I would have gotten it. I have paid taxes since I was 16. I get to use the roads, parks, lakes, etc. just like people who never paid a dime. Isn't that nice?

So fuck you and your president. I don't need either of you.

Nobody in this country pays zero in taxes. Everybody pays sales tax, gas tax, etc. And BTW, he's your president too - unless you're not an American citizen.

But there are many that pay zero federal income taxes (not SS) and still benefit greatly from the federal government, housing, food, cell phones, child care, transportation and health care, just to name a few.

And he's not my President, I didn't vote for him. Please don't think I support anything he says or does.

 

[hortysir]

This thread is one more example of how the New Right has nothing constructive to post. I used to believe the proud and loud members of the echo chamber were simply ignorant and needed attention - it's becoming quite obvious I had them pegged wrongly, they are simply simple. There ignorance is a by-product of concrete thinking; cause and effect, ends and means, process all mean nothing to them, they are abstractions beyond their means. Sad.

Nothing constructive? All this is was his own words.
Thanks for admitting that Obama had nothing constructive to say!

a new, painful era of self-reliance in America.

Since when was self-reliance a painful thing?

What are we ignorant about??

 

[Listening]

And he's not my President, I didn't vote for him. Please don't think I support anything he says or does.

I would encourage you not to say this or take this line of reasoning.

I didn't vote for him.
I don't like him.
He is bad for the country.

But:

He was elected using our established democratic processes.
He won a majority of the electoral votes.
We are the UNITED States of America.
He is our president.

I grew really disgusted with libs when they said the same thing about GWB (who I really didn't care for). We run a process and those get elected are OUR representatives.

I would ask that you please consider this.

 

[Listening]

I realize that conservatives don't see it as a living document, I just don't understand the reasoning. Nobody, not even conservatives, follows the Constitution to the letter. Conservatives like to talk like they do, but that simply is not the true. Case in point - conservatives have recently pushed for a balanced budget amendment and an amendment that would define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Obviously, conservatives do like to change the Constitution when it's something they favor.

The line of reasonsing is pretty simple.

The document only served as the foundation of our country and it is living document via the amendment process. That is how you change it. You don't change it with the unelected, unaccountable idiots who sit in the SCOTUS.

So your cases don't really address what I am saying.

And BTW, you suggested we need health care for everyone. I am interested to get your take on all these so-called waivers that I hear about. Don't know much about them....but I plan to learn more. How is that uniform ?

 

[Jarhead]

Hey, you are the guy who brought it up. YOU prove it. People in the US do die from lack of health care. That is an indisputable FACT. 0.015% or 0.15% doesn't matter. Nobody in the USA should ever have to die from lack of health care.

And about that Constitution - it is a living document. Nobody expects it to be followed to the letter. That is why there is an amendment process. But I guess that's unconstitutional too, huh?

just so you understand...

COnservatives DO expect it to be followed to the letter. That is what makes us conservatives.

Those that are not conservatives are the ones that say it is a living document so they can "tweak it" to meet thier wishes....

THAT is what the debate between the two ideologies is all about...so when you are in a debate with a conservative...to say it is a living document and NO ONE expects you to follow it ot the letter...you are saying "I dont know what a conservative is".

I hope this helps you debate in the future.

I realize that conservatives don't see it as a living document, I just don't understand the reasoning. Nobody, not even conservatives, follows the Constitution to the letter. Conservatives like to talk like they do, but that simply is not the true. Case in point - conservatives have recently pushed for a balanced budget amendment and an amendment that would define marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Obviously, conservatives do like to change the Constitution when it's something they favor.

Adding ammendemnts does not make it a living document. Taking the intent of what was written and re-interpreting it to accommodate a progressive initiative is why progressives call it a living document.

Most ammendments suggested by conservatives are to calrify what conservatives BELIEVE was the intent of the founding fathers.

Progressives believe that the intent of the founding fathers may be all fine and well, but they did not expect changes in socila needs.

I am not saying one is right and one is wrong. I am a conservative and I believe I am right but know I may not be.....thus why I am always open to debate.....one without spin.

Sadly, our elected officials feel the need to spin the intentions of the opposing party when they have open debates...so little gets accomplished as both sides spend mopre time addressing the spin than they do addressing the actual issues.

 

[Listening]

I guess that President Obama didn't know that some seniors in Phoenix AZ are on their own anyway.

He really is not all the bright.