Obama Girls Benefit from Private School

[Nik]

maybe not,but i should have the right to say give me what you spend on my kid per year so i can send him to a private school and i will pay the balance....

Except that hes trying to fight for affordable education, not create a program for the upper middle class kids who can't afford to go to really rich schools.

you know what Nic...tough shit....each year this problem goes on with the idiots in charge,your kid gets older and another grade passes,and he keeps getting a sub-par education...10 years later he got a sub-par education,while the kid in the private school got a great education,and its all happening while our so-called leaders play their fucking political games at the expense of the kids of today and tomorrow, .....you do whats best for those kids and society and they had better do it quick....if you care about your kids you want them in a good school NOW.....

Only problem with your rosy little scenario is that nobody's been able to prove that private schools, in the aggregate, are any better than public schools.

Public vs. Private School Report Spurs Controversy : NPR

 

[Agnapostate]

Why bother with the selective incorporation of raw data? Empirical evidence has already been posted to support my claim that voucher programs effectively increase inequality of opportunity, and unsurprisingly, it has been ignored.

 

[Chris]

But poor blacks in DC probably wouldn't.

Right?

Hit & Run > When It Comes to School Choice For Low-Income DC Residents, Obama Offers Crumb (And Is One) - Reason Magazine

President Obama, proud father of two daughters attending private school, has relented as little as possible when it comes to continuing the proven-effective, cost-effective DC school voucher program, which gives 1,700 kids up to $7,500 per year to get the hell out of the DC public school system. From the Wash Post and following a rally for the program yesterday:

This REALLY, REALLY pisses me off. If Obama believes so much in what this particular urban school district is doing, his kids should be attending there. Put your FAMILY where your mouth is, and then we'll all know you're telling the truth. But instead, he's just thrown a biscuit to the powerful teacher's union, and shown us that he's kind of a hypocrite..."Do as I say, not as I do."

Kudos to Obama for sending his children to a private school. This means more money per pupil for the students in the D.C. public schools.

 

[DamnYankee]

Which goes to the subject title. Why wouldn't the Obamas want the best for their kids too? He will continue to advocate for better education and better opportunities for all kids, but in the meantime, the implication is that he should not be concerned about his own children and send them off to a lousy school just to be politically correct.

HE IS BEING A HYPERCRITE MAGGIE....telling you NO you cant,vouchers not for you,your kid goes to the shitty school,mine will go to good school....bottom line.....i dont want your little juvenile delinquents going to my kids school.....

No, hes not. Even with a voucher program, most kids couldn't go there. He is trying to do the best for society while simultaneously trying to do the best for his kids. Exclusive, insanely private schools are really good for exactly that reason. Open it up to everyone, and they won't be good anymore. Its the nature of the beast.

Exclusivity does not equate to quality necessarily.

Public and Private School Students Perform Similarly in NAEP Study
A national assessment comparing the performance of public schools to private schools has found that nearly always, when certain student characteristics are taken into account, public school students perform just as well, if not better, than private school students. These conclusions, presented by the National Center for Education Statistics, of the U.S. Department of Education, in Comparing Private Schools and Public Schools Using Hierarchical Linear Modeling, are based on data from the 2003 NAEP reading and mathematics exams. This good news demonstrates that public schools continue to be a valid source for a solid education.

The Results

The study (http://www.schoolfunding.info/news/policy/ncespublicprivate.pdf) examined the differences between public and private school NAEP scores when adjustments were made for selected characteristics of students. These characteristics included gender, race/ethnicity, disability status, and English Language Learner status. While all the unadjusted NAEP scores initially indicated higher scores for private schools, taking the selected student characteristics into account substantially reduced the difference in all analyses between 11 and 15 score points. The report also further divided the category for private schools into Catholic, Lutheran, and Conservative Christian subcategories.

Access Quality Education: Policy News

 

[DamnYankee]

Except that hes trying to fight for affordable education, not create a program for the upper middle class kids who can't afford to go to really rich schools.

you know what Nic...tough shit....each year this problem goes on with the idiots in charge,your kid gets older and another grade passes,and he keeps getting a sub-par education...10 years later he got a sub-par education,while the kid in the private school got a great education,and its all happening while our so-called leaders play their fucking political games at the expense of the kids of today and tomorrow, .....you do whats best for those kids and society and they had better do it quick....if you care about your kids you want them in a good school NOW.....

Only problem with your rosy little scenario is that nobody's been able to prove that private schools, in the aggregate, are any better than public schools.

Public vs. Private School Report Spurs Controversy : NPR

Kinda stuck your foot in your mouth when you said this then:

Exclusive, insanely private schools are really good for exactly that reason. Open it up to everyone, and they won't be good anymore. Its the nature of the beast.

 

[DiveCon]

you know what Nic...tough shit....each year this problem goes on with the idiots in charge,your kid gets older and another grade passes,and he keeps getting a sub-par education...10 years later he got a sub-par education,while the kid in the private school got a great education,and its all happening while our so-called leaders play their fucking political games at the expense of the kids of today and tomorrow, .....you do whats best for those kids and society and they had better do it quick....if you care about your kids you want them in a good school NOW.....

Only problem with your rosy little scenario is that nobody's been able to prove that private schools, in the aggregate, are any better than public schools.

Public vs. Private School Report Spurs Controversy : NPR

Kinda stuck your foot in your mouth when you said this then:

Exclusive, insanely private schools are really good for exactly that reason. Open it up to everyone, and they won't be good anymore. Its the nature of the beast.

OOPS
dont ya hate it when that happens

 

[Nik]

you know what Nic...tough shit....each year this problem goes on with the idiots in charge,your kid gets older and another grade passes,and he keeps getting a sub-par education...10 years later he got a sub-par education,while the kid in the private school got a great education,and its all happening while our so-called leaders play their fucking political games at the expense of the kids of today and tomorrow, .....you do whats best for those kids and society and they had better do it quick....if you care about your kids you want them in a good school NOW.....

Only problem with your rosy little scenario is that nobody's been able to prove that private schools, in the aggregate, are any better than public schools.

Public vs. Private School Report Spurs Controversy : NPR

Kinda stuck your foot in your mouth when you said this then:

Exclusive, insanely private schools are really good for exactly that reason. Open it up to everyone, and they won't be good anymore. Its the nature of the beast.

Umm, no, actually I didn't. Notice the "insanely private schools". Private schools by themselves, aren't that exclusive. Schools like where the Obamas enrolled their kids, are.

Some public schools are also exclusive. See Berkeley or UCLA. The exclusivity of a school and whether the school is public or private are two completely different things.

 

[DamnYankee]

Only problem with your rosy little scenario is that nobody's been able to prove that private schools, in the aggregate, are any better than public schools.

Public vs. Private School Report Spurs Controversy : NPR

Kinda stuck your foot in your mouth when you said this then:

Exclusive, insanely private schools are really good for exactly that reason. Open it up to everyone, and they won't be good anymore. Its the nature of the beast.

Umm, no, actually I didn't. Notice the "insanely private schools". Private schools by themselves, aren't that exclusive. Schools like where the Obamas enrolled their kids, are.

Some public schools are also exclusive. See Berkeley or UCLA. The exclusivity of a school and whether the school is public or private are two completely different things.

<chuckle> Nice spin there.... And I was under the impression that this discussion was focused on primary education rather than secondary....

Now, I'd call this "exclusive", wouldn't you?
Most private school students (81 percent) attend religiously-affiliated schools (see table). And most private schools are small: 86 percent have fewer than 300 students (see table).

Oh, and BTW....
Where do the children of the wealthy go to school? In December 2006, the U.S. Census Bureau released data on the social and economic characteristics of students enrolled in the nation’s schools in October 2005. It turns out that of the eight million youngsters in grades K-12 who come from families with annual incomes of $100,000 or more, 80 percent (6.4 million) attend public schools and 20 percent (1.6 million) attend private schools.

CAPE | Private School Facts

Sorta puts a "hole" in the argument for "Obama can afford it, so why not?"

 

[editec]

Why bother with the selective incorporation of raw data? Empirical evidence has already been posted to support my claim that voucher programs effectively increase inequality of opportunity, and unsurprisingly, it has been ignored.

Yes, of course a voucher program will increase inequality of opportunity.

Why?

Well the market (in this case that would be the edcuational market) WILL RESPOND to all that new money coming at them in the way that markets always respond when more money is chasing essantially the same amount of good and services---IT RAISES PRICES.

So, while I, as an edcuator, might personally benefit tremendously in a school voucher universe, I think that in the longer run, the voucher system is simply an move that will cause inflation in prices and no real long term benefit to the commonweal.

The greatest problem in our schools today, doesn't have much to do with the schools themselves.

It has to do with what's happening to the families and communities that the schools serve.

 

[Nik]

Kinda stuck your foot in your mouth when you said this then:

Umm, no, actually I didn't. Notice the "insanely private schools". Private schools by themselves, aren't that exclusive. Schools like where the Obamas enrolled their kids, are.

Some public schools are also exclusive. See Berkeley or UCLA. The exclusivity of a school and whether the school is public or private are two completely different things.

<chuckle> Nice spin there.... And I was under the impression that this discussion was focused on primary education rather than secondary....

Now, I'd call this "exclusive", wouldn't you?
Most private school students (81 percent) attend religiously-affiliated schools (see table). And most private schools are small: 86 percent have fewer than 300 students (see table).

Oh, and BTW....
Where do the children of the wealthy go to school? In December 2006, the U.S. Census Bureau released data on the social and economic characteristics of students enrolled in the nation’s schools in October 2005. It turns out that of the eight million youngsters in grades K-12 who come from families with annual incomes of $100,000 or more, 80 percent (6.4 million) attend public schools and 20 percent (1.6 million) attend private schools.

CAPE | Private School Facts

Sorta puts a "hole" in the argument for "Obama can afford it, so why not?"

*sigh*

I was using secondary schools as examples, since I'm unfamiliar with specific primary schools. It was an analogy, genius.

And no, small doesn't necessarily mean exclusive. Harvard Law is, as far as law schools go, relatively large. With an entering class of approximately 450 people, it is one of the largest. It is also one of the most exclusive.

As for primary schools...

But make sure your child has what the school is looking for. Only 15% of applicants are accepted [at Sidwell]. This is a very competitive school.

Its exclusive because it self-selects, not because its small, large, or that somehow being private means anything at all. There are also some very good (public) charter schools that are extremely exclusive in Manhattan. Same distinction there.

 

[DamnYankee]

Umm, no, actually I didn't. Notice the "insanely private schools". Private schools by themselves, aren't that exclusive. Schools like where the Obamas enrolled their kids, are.

Some public schools are also exclusive. See Berkeley or UCLA. The exclusivity of a school and whether the school is public or private are two completely different things.

<chuckle> Nice spin there.... And I was under the impression that this discussion was focused on primary education rather than secondary....

Now, I'd call this "exclusive", wouldn't you?
Most private school students (81 percent) attend religiously-affiliated schools (see table). And most private schools are small: 86 percent have fewer than 300 students (see table).

Oh, and BTW....
Where do the children of the wealthy go to school? In December 2006, the U.S. Census Bureau released data on the social and economic characteristics of students enrolled in the nation’s schools in October 2005. It turns out that of the eight million youngsters in grades K-12 who come from families with annual incomes of $100,000 or more, 80 percent (6.4 million) attend public schools and 20 percent (1.6 million) attend private schools.

CAPE | Private School Facts

Sorta puts a "hole" in the argument for "Obama can afford it, so why not?"

*sigh*

I was using secondary schools as examples, since I'm unfamiliar with specific primary schools. It was an analogy, genius.

And no, small doesn't necessarily mean exclusive. Harvard Law is, as far as law schools go, relatively large. With an entering class of approximately 450 people, it is one of the largest. It is also one of the most exclusive.

As for primary schools...

But make sure your child has what the school is looking for. Only 15% of applicants are accepted [at Sidwell]. This is a very competitive school.

Its exclusive because it self-selects, not because its small, large, or that somehow being private means anything at all. There are also some very good (public) charter schools that are extremely exclusive in Manhattan. Same distinction there.

Well, excuse me, genius, but this thread is about primary education (not colleges and universities) since it pertains to the Obamas sending their children to private schools, and they're not old enough for secondary education yet!

And thank you, for making my point....

 

[Nik]

<chuckle> Nice spin there.... And I was under the impression that this discussion was focused on primary education rather than secondary....

Now, I'd call this "exclusive", wouldn't you?
Most private school students (81 percent) attend religiously-affiliated schools (see table). And most private schools are small: 86 percent have fewer than 300 students (see table).

Oh, and BTW....
Where do the children of the wealthy go to school? In December 2006, the U.S. Census Bureau released data on the social and economic characteristics of students enrolled in the nation’s schools in October 2005. It turns out that of the eight million youngsters in grades K-12 who come from families with annual incomes of $100,000 or more, 80 percent (6.4 million) attend public schools and 20 percent (1.6 million) attend private schools.

CAPE | Private School Facts

Sorta puts a "hole" in the argument for "Obama can afford it, so why not?"

*sigh*

I was using secondary schools as examples, since I'm unfamiliar with specific primary schools. It was an analogy, genius.

And no, small doesn't necessarily mean exclusive. Harvard Law is, as far as law schools go, relatively large. With an entering class of approximately 450 people, it is one of the largest. It is also one of the most exclusive.

As for primary schools...

But make sure your child has what the school is looking for. Only 15% of applicants are accepted [at Sidwell]. This is a very competitive school.

Its exclusive because it self-selects, not because its small, large, or that somehow being private means anything at all. There are also some very good (public) charter schools that are extremely exclusive in Manhattan. Same distinction there.

Well, excuse me, genius, but this thread is about primary education (not colleges and universities) since it pertains to the Obamas sending their children to private schools, and they're not old enough for secondary education yet!

And thank you, for making my point....

Do explain why I can't reference tertiary schools to make my point about primary education. Its called an analogy. Do I need to draw you a diagram or something?

 

[Newby]

Again, instead of offering real solutions to our economy and to our country, the Republicans just attack everyone else. This IS the party of no. The party of no more elections... as in the Republicans will never be elected to the White House again.

Sounds to me like it's Obama saying NO, yet you somehow turn this into a Republican bashing? Priceless.

 

[MaggieMae]

maybe not,but i should have the right to say give me what you spend on my kid per year so i can send him to a private school and i will pay the balance....

Except that hes trying to fight for affordable education, not create a program for the upper middle class kids who can't afford to go to really rich schools.

you know what Nic...tough shit....each year this problem goes on with the idiots in charge,your kid gets older and another grade passes,and he keeps getting a sub-par education...10 years later he got a sub-par education,while the kid in the private school got a great education,and its all happening while our so-called leaders play their fucking political games at the expense of the kids of today and tomorrow, .....you do whats best for those kids and society and they had better do it quick....if you care about your kids you want them in a good school NOW.....

Yep. Blame sub-par education ALL on Democrats, and of course ignore the fact that Republicans were in charge for 22 of the last 28 years.

 

[catzmeow]

Utah doesn't have minorities (except for a couple guys name Joe and Earl).

Minorities are usually poorer than whites because whites kidnapped their ancestors, dragged them across the sea, forced them into slavery, opressed them for two hundred years after slavery ended (almost 200), and then said, "Why are black people so far behind white people?"

Utah.

If you love it, move there.

I lived in Utah for ten years and worked with an almost exclusively minority population. Utah has a large latino population, the largest population of pacific islanders on the mainland U.S., and is a refugee resettlement point for Catholic Community Services.

 

[catzmeow]

Allowing the rightwingnuts to give the finger to a good chunk of our society isn't...

so what is?

Allowing hard-working kids of color to opt out of a failing school system isn't giving the finger to a good chunk of our society. If poverty is the issue, and the poor are doomed to fail, let those kids who can succeed do so.

 

[jillian]

Allowing the rightwingnuts to give the finger to a good chunk of our society isn't...

so what is?

Allowing hard-working kids of color to opt out of a failing school system isn't giving the finger to a good chunk of our society. If poverty is the issue, and the poor are doomed to fail, let those kids who can succeed do so.

you're talking about sucking the money out of the public education system so that it no longer exists.

 

[catzmeow]

I have a hard time buying the republican assertion that the less we spend on public schools they better they will perform. Republicans never make that argument about the Pentagon. It makes no sense at all as a broad proposition. I know that money isn't the only answer. But well funded public schools are undoubtedly better, in general, than underfunded public schools. There are always exceptions, but there's not doubt that its broadly true.

Finally, I think every single middle class republican with kids on this board would not knowingly choose to put their child in the lowest funded public school district in their city or state. I think that, rather, every single one of them seeks out and chooses to live in a school district with a robust property tax base, and a district that is well funded.

We have failing schools in the same district that my kids attend. Property values fluctuate based upon school performance. My kids live in high-performing schools, but the low-performing schools aren't funded to a lesser degree than the schools my kids have attended.

Some people on the left need to realize that when we talk about school funding, throwing more money at failing schools IS NOT THE ANSWER. The answer is as follows:

• Ensuring those dollars make it to the classroom (and don't end up in some bloated low-performing school administrative office, as happens all too often).
• Retraining teachers to more appopriately manage student behavior.
• Ensuring that teachers use proven teaching methods IN THE CLASSROOM.
• Holding teachers accountable for doing the above.

The fact of the matter is that most failing schools are funded AT THE SAME LEVEL as their high-performing neighbors. The difference is in what happens in the classroom, and the expectations of the school.

I've seen schools totally turn around, behavior and performance-wise, by requiring proven teaching methods and offering literacy instruction to kids.

Kids who are functionally illiterate in the elementary, middle, and high school levels are behavior problems. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

[catzmeow]

you're talking about sucking the money out of the public education system so that it no longer exists.

No. I'm talking about allowing competition so that when school districts choose to remain in the shitter, the kids who have a chance to succeed are given the opportunity to opt out. I've worked with failing urban school districts for the past 15 years. Some kids deserve a chance to get out.

It's ABOUT THE KIDS, not about the self-serving education bureaucracy. It should always BE about the kids. The kids are the clients. In too many schools, the educators think it is all about what the teachers want. i've seen some great teachers in my time. I've also seen many, many teachers who are extremely detrimental to children. Kids and their families should have the opportunity to earn a way out of that morass of failure.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Except that hes trying to fight for affordable education, not create a program for the upper middle class kids who can't afford to go to really rich schools.

you know what Nic...tough shit....each year this problem goes on with the idiots in charge,your kid gets older and another grade passes,and he keeps getting a sub-par education...10 years later he got a sub-par education,while the kid in the private school got a great education,and its all happening while our so-called leaders play their fucking political games at the expense of the kids of today and tomorrow, .....you do whats best for those kids and society and they had better do it quick....if you care about your kids you want them in a good school NOW.....

Only problem with your rosy little scenario is that nobody's been able to prove that private schools, in the aggregate, are any better than public schools.

Public vs. Private School Report Spurs Controversy : NPR

kind of a biased site there Nic.... most kids who go to a sub-par public school get no-where near the ed. they would get at a private school....and there are two many SUB-PAR schools for you to even try to argue your point....like i said....while the morons in charge squabble over this....thousands of kids are getting a half-ass education...and this has been going on for at least 25 years....should we go another 25 years?....