Obama and the Military

When veterans voiced their concerns, HE LISTENED TO THEM. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY ?

They wanted him to not propose it in the first place?

Some of these guys will never be satisfied/happy with anything he does and if by some off chance they are I highly doubt they would voice their approval.

I totally hear ya ... the vets spoke up, he clearly listened him, and demonstrated it by dropping a bad idea.


That's just nuts. He was looking at ways to provide more by billing private insurance. It wasn't a very good idea and it was dropped.

But let's hang the guy for trying to help us. Cause it's his job and all.

Let us not forget that this idea was intended to apply to wounded veterans, and was not limited to veterans with chronic illnesses. Their own insurance would have to pick up their medical expenses for wounds received in military action. This like so many government policies of the past would further distort the whole Health Care System.
Disabled vets deserve 100% HC, simple as that.

The problems that the VA is having providing HC is stemming from the mess that HC is for civilians.

The VA has to compete for HC workers and pay for medication and equipment and the price of HC has inflated in comparison to everything else over the last thirty years.

Fix the mess that is our current system and the VA's problems will largely be solved, too.

You are right about that Ed, one hundred percent. However, just about all of the distortions in the HC system over the past thirty years came from the unintended consequences of government policies which we must assume were founded on good intentions. If it weren't for those policies we would still have the most efficient, cost effective and therefore most available HC system in the world. And even now it is far better in all those ways than we are constantly being told by those who yammer at us about how terrible it is so that they have an excuse to take it over and re-engineer it. That, of course, will degrade it further.

In 1966 a hospital stay in our capital city cost $72 a day, not including attending physician's charges. On a fairly good wage of $3.00 per hour a person could've paid for each of those days with 3 days of labor. but instead of that insured person paying 3 days in labor value, health insurance paid for almost all of it from a premium of about $5 per week. That was the amount of a premium for a family of two adults, or about 2% of a day's labor value for just one of those adults if they both were working. There was nothing onerous about that. Now do some factorial multiplication and see where we are today based on today’s cost and income levels.

What you would find out is, in spite of all the harm that has been done, it is really not so bad for the equivalent medical services which were available in 1966. But furthermore, the comparison is not so bad, even compared to what's new and available today including heart, lung, liver, kidney, knee, hip and all kinds of other transplants, and an endless array of other life saving drugs, chemotherapy, and health services, like Xray machines which are in about every doctor's office who does surgery, etc. etc. An ordinary bone surgeon (one who does elbow, wrist, or knee surgery) will even have an MRI machine in their building. Western Pennsylvania, the poorest part of that state, has more MRI machines than the whole of the country of Canada, which is a standard we are told we should vie for.
 
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When veterans voiced their concerns, HE LISTENED TO THEM. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY ?

They wanted him to not propose it in the first place?

Some of these guys will never be satisfied/happy with anything he does and if by some off chance they are I highly doubt they would voice their approval.

I totally hear ya ... the vets spoke up, he clearly listened him, and demonstrated it by dropping a bad idea.


That's just nuts. He was looking at ways to provide more by billing private insurance. It wasn't a very good idea and it was dropped.

But let's hang the guy for trying to help us. Cause it's his job and all.

Well you'll have to excuse me for being one of those IGNORANT service connected disabled veteran MORONS you been kicking around in here, but even after reading through this thread, and especially the one above, I still don't get it. You're saying obama wanted to give us DAV's "more," but the way he wanted to do it was a "bad," so were all fucked up jack asses for complaining about it?

Yeah, excuse the fuck otta me, but if the guy was sincere about giving us DAV's "more," then why the hell didn't he just ASK the V.A. WHAT THEY NEED, instead of proposing some bull shit insurance scheme? Excuse the FUCK otta me for not TRUSTING the guy. He wants to CUT military spending, he thinks our military is too big. To me, he hates the military period, and that INCLUDES veterans. But hey, let's not complain about say, "how much money it took to get his ass to the LENO show last night, the plane, all the secret service, the logistics, etc." The guy is a fucking liberal shit bag, and I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. If he says he's trying to HELP the veterans, my bet is somewhere in his "DEAL" we're going to get fucked.

Tell me I'm wrong. :eusa_hand:
 
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Well you'll have to excuse me for being one of those IGNORANT service connected disabled veteran MORONS you been kicking around in here, but even after reading through this thread, and especially the one above, I still don't get it. You're saying obama wanted to give us DAV's "more," but the way he wanted to do it was a "bad," so were all fucked up jack asses for complaining about it?

No, you're a fucked up jack ass for complaining about someone doing exactly what you asked for. You speak, he listens, you still complain.

Yeah, excuse the fuck otta me, but if the guy was sincere about giving us DAV's "more," then why the hell didn't he just ASK the V.A. WHAT THEY NEED, instead of proposing some bull shit insurance scheme? Excuse the FUCK otta me for not TRUSTING the guy. He wants to CUT military spending, he thinks our military is too big. To me, he hates the military period, and that INCLUDES veterans. But hey, let's not complain about say, "how much money it took to get his ass to the LENO show last night, the plane, all the secret service, the logistics, etc." The guy is a fucking liberal shit bag, and I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. If he says he's trying to HELP the veterans, my bet is somewhere in his "DEAL" we're going to get fucked.

Tell me I'm wrong. :eusa_hand:


You're wrong. The plan is not being pursued. He did ask the VA what they needed and they said "more money". He tried to figure a way to get more money, went to the vets and asked "How about this ?" They said "no", he dropped it and now you're here complaining about someone that was trying to help.,
 
He tried to figure a way to get more money, went to the vets and asked "How about this ?" They said "no", he dropped it and now you're here complaining about someone that was trying to help.,

Peejay im sorry,but if the "HOW ABOUT THIS"...was "how about you guys get your own Ins."....for the President of the USA to even suggest this,shows you what he thinks of Vets....if he was any type of leader he would have killed this idea the minute he heard about it....NOT let it bounce around for a week....and then go into a room of Vets and suggest this.....the guys as bad with public relations as Bush was....
 
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When veterans voiced their concerns, HE LISTENED TO THEM. WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY ?

They wanted him to not propose it in the first place?

Some of these guys will never be satisfied/happy with anything he does and if by some off chance they are I highly doubt they would voice their approval.

I totally hear ya ... the vets spoke up, he clearly listened him, and demonstrated it by dropping a bad idea.


That's just nuts. He was looking at ways to provide more by billing private insurance. It wasn't a very good idea and it was dropped.

But let's hang the guy for trying to help us. Cause it's his job and all.

How was it ever a good idea to begin with? I wish I was a fly on the wall in the meeting when it was first proposed. It should never have even made it out of the room as a bad joke.

THAT'S THE POINT.
 
The suggestion of "get your own insurance" is absurd. No one made that suggestion. In spite of the VA offering care, many vets have insurance. Now, think about that. You have VA benefits and insurance. But the VA doesn't get to bill your insurance like any other hospital. It's not such a stretch to consider that IF you have insurance, maybe the VA should be able to bill the people that YOU PAY to cover your medical cost.

The fasct is, the VA provides notoriously poor care, compared to most other options. Looking for a way to improve that care and include more vets in that care is no great insult. The sole reason this was objected to was the risk of premiums going up on veterans that actually use their insurance. And the objections were heard and responded to.

The folks hollering about this would holler if the man started shitting gold eggs and passing them out to vets. Probably claim he was just looking to move them into higher tax bracket.
 
The suggestion of "get your own insurance" is absurd. No one made that suggestion.
Peejay...your the one in your above post that indicated that he brought up the idea when he met with the VA.....HERES YOUR QUOTE....

"You're wrong. The plan is not being pursued. He did ask the VA what they needed and they said "more money". He tried to figure a way to get more money, went to the vets and asked "How about this ?" They said "no", he dropped it and now you're here complaining about someone that was trying to help."


you are talking about him suggesting this then dropping it after they objected.....am i right?
 
The suggestion of "get your own insurance" is absurd. No one made that suggestion.
Peejay...your the one in your above post that indicated that he brought up the idea when he met with the VA.....HERES YOUR QUOTE....

"You're wrong. The plan is not being pursued. He did ask the VA what they needed and they said "more money". He tried to figure a way to get more money, went to the vets and asked "How about this ?" They said "no", he dropped it and now you're here complaining about someone that was trying to help."


you are talking about him suggesting this then dropping it after they objected.....am i right?

Suggesting what ? What idea ? That vets would have to go out and get their own insurance ?

No. Nothing of the sort. That's what you twisted into some kind of personal reality. The idea didn't fly, it wasn't a good idea, as the insurance companies would surely raise premiums, but no one ever suggested that the VA would be denying anyone care or even asking vets to go get insurance.
 
The suggestion of "get your own insurance" is absurd. No one made that suggestion.
Peejay...your the one in your above post that indicated that he brought up the idea when he met with the VA.....HERES YOUR QUOTE....

"You're wrong. The plan is not being pursued. He did ask the VA what they needed and they said "more money". He tried to figure a way to get more money, went to the vets and asked "How about this ?" They said "no", he dropped it and now you're here complaining about someone that was trying to help."


you are talking about him suggesting this then dropping it after they objected.....am i right?

Suggesting what ? What idea ? That vets would have to go out and get their own insurance ?

No. Nothing of the sort. That's what you twisted into some kind of personal reality. The idea didn't fly, it wasn't a good idea, as the insurance companies would surely raise premiums, but no one ever suggested that the VA would be denying anyone care or even asking vets to go get insurance.

oh really?.....then what is the "HOW ABOUT THIS" you mention?.....WHAT was being offered to the vets,you are the one stating it.....i am assuming you are saying the Pres. walked into this meeting and mentioned the plan about the vets paying their own ins.,they said NO,he said ok plan B.....???
 
I'm not going to whine, but state something quite simply and matter-of-factly.

The VA has been trying to unfuck my brain since 1991. NO WAY could I pay for a psychiatrist and psychologist twice a month each, and no way is anybody's fucking insurance, at the exorbitant rate going to cover it.

PTSD cost me one marriage and has come within a thread of costing me a second one. Serving this nation is THE cause of it and all I or anyone else ever asks is that you fucking fix us. Now the President of this Nation wants us to pay for shit serving this nation caused?

Fuck you. And the horse you rode in on. Don't give me the help I need and turn me loose on the public. Go right the fuck ahead. See where it gets you.
 
I'm not going to whine, but state something quite simply and matter-of-factly.

The VA has been trying to unfuck my brain since 1991. NO WAY could I pay for a psychiatrist and psychologist twice a month each, and no way is anybody's fucking insurance, at the exorbitant rate going to cover it.

PTSD cost me one marriage and has come within a thread of costing me a second one. Serving this nation is THE cause of it and all I or anyone else ever asks is that you fucking fix us. Now the President of this Nation wants us to pay for shit serving this nation caused?

Fuck you. And the horse you rode in on. Don't give me the help I need and turn me loose on the public. Goi right the fuck ahead. See where it gets you.

Gunny, you are the one I'm talking about earlier. So is RGS. Both of you and ALL of you deserve all the VA should give. WE owe it to you all. I know there are lots of vets that need the psych services that VA gives, even though they have private insurance for physical needs. My ex had very good insurance, totally paid for by his company, (executive for AT&T.), during the course of 5 years of protracted divorce WE hit the cap of $500k for psych coverage. The ex used a good portion and the kids the rest, we capped out.

To the best of my knowledge what the VA offers is services without caps to any vets. Thus they can be tapped by vets today for psych, while going to insurance provided physicians for regular health, including their families. That's pretty much what my dad did with the hearing aids. The caveat being they made him go through a 'physical', where they picked up the problems with heart, kidneys-a result of the war, etc. He was like, "Yeah, I know, I've got my own docs for that." They were like, "Ok, soldier. You need to come here every month for bp check and kidney check." So he did. He got the hearing aid and like I said, became committed to visiting the old and young vets, that weren't so lucky.
 
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I'm not going to whine, but state something quite simply and matter-of-factly.

The VA has been trying to unfuck my brain since 1991. NO WAY could I pay for a psychiatrist and psychologist twice a month each, and no way is anybody's fucking insurance, at the exorbitant rate going to cover it.

PTSD cost me one marriage and has come within a thread of costing me a second one. Serving this nation is THE cause of it and all I or anyone else ever asks is that you fucking fix us. Now the President of this Nation wants us to pay for shit serving this nation caused?

Fuck you. And the horse you rode in on. Don't give me the help I need and turn me loose on the public. Goi right the fuck ahead. See where it gets you.

Gunny, you are the one I'm talking about earlier. So is RGS. Both of you and ALL of you deserve all the VA should give. WE owe it to you all. I know there are lots of vets that need the psych services that VA gives, even though they have private insurance for physical needs. My ex had very good insurance, totally paid for by his company, (executive for AT&T.), during the course of 5 years of protracted divorce WE hit the cap of $500k for psych coverage. The ex used a good portion and the kids the rest, we capped out.

To the best of my knowledge what the VA offers is services without caps to any vets. Thus they can be tapped by vets today for psych, while going to insurance provided physicians for regular health, including their families. That's pretty much what my dad did with the hearing aids. The caveat being they made him go through a 'physical', where they picked up the problems with heart, kidneys-a result of the war, etc. He was like, "Yeah, I know, I've got my own docs for that." They were like, "Ok, soldier. You need to come here every month for bp check and kidney check." So he did. He got the hearing aid and like I said, became committed to visiting the old and young vets, that weren't so lucky.

I'm just remembering all those threads from leftwingnuts claiming Bush was screwing vets. Where are those lefties NOW? Come defend THIS.

The fact is, BOTH parties, when looking to save a dime, fuck the vets. I'm sick of it. I didn't and don't give a damn about Kuwait. It's as backwards-assed as any nation in the Arab world. Saddam's thugs were brutal and ruthless in Kuwait and we exrtacted our revenge, Not becaause we gave a damn about the the government of Kuwait, but because of what those people did to other human beings.

There's a price to pay for what you see and what you do. If you have a conscience.

If I do it on my own, it's on me. If I do it at someone else's bidding, they are responsible for the aftermath.

I slept on my living room floor with the patio doors open for about 2 years after I came home because I couldn't stand being in an enclosed room. I slept and STILL sleep with a gun under my pillow.

I turned it on when my country said "turn it on". And the left was as gung-ho about Kuwait as the right. Now they want me to pay because I can't sleep at night? Fuck them.
 
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No, you're a fucked up jack ass for complaining about someone doing exactly what you asked for. You speak, he listens, you still complain.
Ooooh yeah... you fuckin' A I am. I don't need some pencil necked little twat plug to tell me when I am and when I'm not getting fucked. If that purple lipped, toilet nugget, obama REALLY gave a damn about veterans, he wouldn't propose things to the VETERANS ADMINISTRATION that were BAD! What fucking part about that slips by that anemic brain cell you have?

You're wrong. The plan is not being pursued. He did ask the VA what they needed and they said "more money". He tried to figure a way to get more money, went to the vets and asked "How about this ?" They said "no", he dropped it and now you're here complaining about someone that was trying to help.,
Get a clue man. That pud track hussein and his spending orgy pals pelosi and reid and crew can IN PRIVATE, and in RECORD TIME, and without any REPUBLICAN CONSENT, and without even as much as LETTING ANYONE READ IT, draft and pass the largest SPENDING BLOWOUT ORGY in the history of this country, and much of it is on BULL SHIT, but when the veterans ask for some help, the best this MOTHER FUCKER and his COMRADES can do is cook up some fucking INSURANCE SCHEME, and then you got the audacity to come in here and jump on service connected disabled veterans like Gunny and myself for pitching a bitch?

I got just one thing to say to you pee pee.... FUCK OFF MOTHER FUCKER!
 
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I love the way our fucking society likes to kick us to the curb. Fukkin fine. Just don't bitch like little whiners when i single-handedly tree a fukkin bar.

YOU created us. Learn to sleep with it. WE fukkin have to.
 
Obviously you guys have some fucking screws loose.

No one DID anything. No one said "pay your own way".

Nothing was done, a suggestion was made. And you folks get all bent out of shape. because someone was looking for a way to help vets with medical care.

This has nothing to do with vets or medical care. You're all malcontents. Pure and simple, malcontents. It could rain easter eggs and pop tarts and you mother fuckers would want cake and ice cream.


No one did shit, no one took shit, not a gad damend thing has changed. Chill out. Or go talk to your therapist.
 
Obviously you guys have some fucking screws loose.

No one DID anything. No one said "pay your own way".

Nothing was done, a suggestion was made. And you folks get all bent out of shape. because someone was looking for a way to help vets with medical care.

This has nothing to do with vets or medical care. You're all malcontents. Pure and simple, malcontents. It could rain easter eggs and pop tarts and you mother fuckers would want cake and ice cream.


No one did shit, no one took shit, not a gad damend thing has changed. Chill out. Or go talk to your therapist.
It's the mindset. Hoping to save money on the vets and their families. Screw you.
 
I love the way our fucking society likes to kick us to the curb. Fukkin fine. Just don't bitch like little whiners when i single-handedly tree a fukkin bar.

YOU created us. Learn to sleep with it. WE fukkin have to.


No one has kicked you to the curb. Get a grip Gunny. Some one SAID something. Your rights to care from the VA haven't changed, would not have changed and won't change.

The only whiny little bitches I see are crying about something that didn't even happen. Crying about a suggestion.
 
Obviously you guys have some fucking screws loose.

No one DID anything. No one said "pay your own way".

Nothing was done, a suggestion was made. And you folks get all bent out of shape. because someone was looking for a way to help vets with medical care.

This has nothing to do with vets or medical care. You're all malcontents. Pure and simple, malcontents. It could rain easter eggs and pop tarts and you mother fuckers would want cake and ice cream.


No one did shit, no one took shit, not a gad damend thing has changed. Chill out. Or go talk to your therapist.
It's the mindset. Hoping to save money on the vets and their families. Screw you.

That's a fucking lie. The plan was to put 25 billion back into the VA and bring a half million more vets into care. The idea was to help MORE vets. Fucking retard. The mind set is to help people. Just another screw lose malcontnet. Shit like this draws you morons out of the wood work.
 
Hey....you fucking idiots.....here is an article about Obama's proposed VA bedget. He's providing more than anyone has.....EVER, to take care of our vets. Not that the whiny ass sorry mother fuckers here know a thing about who is looking out for them. Too busy playing politics and biting the hand that feeds them.


President Obama is drawing high praise from veterans' service organizations for proposing a Department of Veterans Affairs budget that would exceed by $1.3 billion what even VSOs suggested be spent next year.


No president ever has offered a VA spending plan that surpassed in size the "Independent Budget" presented to Congress by major veterans groups. Obama seeks to fulfill several high-profile promises made to veterans during his presidential campaign including a big increase in VA health-care budgets.

But it was a new and unpopular proposal being studied by the administration that created uncomfortable moments for VA Secretary Eric K. Shinseki when he made separate appearances Tuesday before the House and Senate veterans' affairs committees.

Obama's VA budget outline, with full details promised by late April, would raise VA spending to $112.8 billion in the fiscal year that begins Oct. 1. That's an increase of $15 billion, or 15 percent, over the current budget.

"This is the largest dollar and percentage increase ever requested by a President for veterans," Shinseki told lawmakers.

The plan allows the VA health care system to enroll up to 550,000 new Priority Group 8 veterans by 2013. These are veterans who have no service-connected ailments and have incomes deemed adequate based on family size and geographic location. The total for new enrollees includes 266,000 Group 8 veterans already slated to enroll in VA health system starting this summer under a funding initiative Congress passed last fall.

Obama's Defense and VA budgets also call for a gradual lifting of what remains of the ban on concurrent receipt of both military retirement and VA disability compensation for disabled retirees. The next step would occur in 2010 with concurrent receipt allowed for the most seriously disabled veterans forced to retire short of 20 years. Further details must await the full budget's release in April, Shinseki said.

Military update: Obama budget draws cheers, jeers from vets | Stars and Stripes

But by all means, continue with your bashing you ungrateful bastards.
 
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Obviously you guys have some fucking screws loose.

No one DID anything. No one said "pay your own way".

Nothing was done, a suggestion was made. And you folks get all bent out of shape. because someone was looking for a way to help vets with medical care.

This has nothing to do with vets or medical care. You're all malcontents. Pure and simple, malcontents. It could rain easter eggs and pop tarts and you mother fuckers would want cake and ice cream.


No one did shit, no one took shit, not a gad damend thing has changed. Chill out. Or go talk to your therapist.
It's the mindset. Hoping to save money on the vets and their families. Screw you.

That's a fucking lie. The plan was to put 25 billion back into the VA and bring a half million more vets into care. The idea was to help MORE vets. Fucking retard. The mind set is to help people. Just another screw lose malcontnet. Shit like this draws you morons out of the wood work.

Wrong. The vets disagreed then and as you've read, disagree now. If the administration had a real heart, they'd never brought this to light. They don't, they loathe the military and now it's hit the light of day.
 

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