Now it's only third world countries and USA that are still religious

[johnsweeting]

I like to study religions and stats around it and I have found some interesting things.
All the other western nations have a majority of the population being non-religious.
Take a look at these numbers:

Is Religion important in your life - People who answer "No" in percentage below:
Sweden 88%
Denmark 80.5%
Norway 78%
Czech Republic 74.5%
Hong Kong 75.5%
Japan 75%
United Kingdom 73%
Finland 70%
France 69.5%
Germany 69%
Australia 67.5%
Canada 67%
Netherlands 66.5%
New Zealand 66%


There is not one single "western" nation left now that haven't left religion behind. Even if you compare the "old" British colonies - Canada, Australia & New Zealand there is a big difference compared to America. Why is this ??

Western nation = Western Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand & Canada.

America is on the same religious level as third world countries like:
Uganda
Jamaica
Armenia
Uzbekistan
El Salvador
Honduras

....which I don't think is a good thing.

Still Religious:
1. Third world nations & Muslim nations
2. USA

USA is the only western nation where you are not considered nuts if you believe in Noah's Ark and Creationism.

Will this ever change ?

 

[oldfart]

Still Religious:
1. Third world nations & Muslim nations
2. USA

USA is the only western nation where you are not considered nuts if you believe in Noah's Ark and Creationism.

Will this ever change ?

Yes it will change. The biggest factor is that the United States is not a homogeneous culture like many European nations; it is a collection of sub-cultures. Some of those sub-cultures are militantly religious. Such groups can succeed by limiting contact with the broader world by supporting separate institutions such as schools and universities, using home schooling, and developing their own economic institutions. It doesn't matter if they are Islamic, Evangelical, FLDS, Hassidic, or Amish. The dynamics are the same.

There is a downside. If cultural groups have rights, those rights are carved out of basic human individual rights. None of these groups survive without being able to indoctrinate their children. We chose to accept child abuse, spousal abuse, denial of medical care, denial of educational opportunity, and similar abuses as acceptable costs of "freedom" for these groups. Indeed the hallmark of American freedom is that we allow groups to abuse their members free of government interference to a much larger degree than any other Western society. It is the epitome of "American exceptionalism".

I hope that slowly over time more Americans, especially those damaged by the excesses of these groups, will strike a better balance between group rights and individual rights. Perhaps some day freedom will come to mean more than the freedom to abuse and exploit others. Until then, there is nothing more dangerous in America to personal liberty than the freedoms of these groups to exploit and kill their own.

 

[legaleagle_45]

I like to study religions and stats around it and I have found some interesting things.
All the other western nations have a majority of the population being non-religious.
Take a look at these numbers:

Is Religion important in your life - People who answer "No" in percentage below:
Sweden 88%
Denmark 80.5%
Norway 78%
Czech Republic 74.5%
Hong Kong 75.5%
Japan 75%
United Kingdom 73%
Finland 70%
France 69.5%
Germany 69%
Australia 67.5%
Canada 67%
Netherlands 66.5%
New Zealand 66%


There is not one single "western" nation left now that haven't left religion behind. Even if you compare the "old" British colonies - Canada, Australia & New Zealand there is a big difference compared to America. Why is this ??

Western nation = Western Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand & Canada.

America is on the same religious level as third world countries like:
Uganda
Jamaica
Armenia
Uzbekistan
El Salvador
Honduras

....which I don't think is a good thing.

Still Religious:
1. Third world nations & Muslim nations
2. USA

USA is the only western nation where you are not considered nuts if you believe in Noah's Ark and Creationism.

Will this ever change ?

You do not think Austria, Italy, Ireland, Greece, Spain and Portugal are "western" nations?

 

[Capstone]

Not to refute the results of the poll alluded to in the OP (I'm fully aware that my country is loaded with fundies), but it's tough for me to formulate an opinion here without access to the relevant polling data.

The only question mentioned in the original post is too ambiguous to be worth a damn. If somebody asked me the question, "Is Religion important in your life?", I'd have to say yes, despite the fact that I personally have no religious affiliation whatsoever. As an informed US citizen, it's virtually impossible for me to overlook the warping influence of religion on society (especially that of Zionist-friendly Christianity).

 

[Avatar4321]

This nation is religious now? hard to tell from the way people act.

 

[JoeB131]

This nation is religious now? hard to tell from the way people act.

Why would you say that?

Frankly, a lot of people act like douchebags because they are religious.

Because usually, they are pretty ignorant of what is in their holy books, and the Imaginary Sky Pixie is a great enabler for douchebaggery.

 

[Avatar4321]

This nation is religious now? hard to tell from the way people act.

Why would you say that?

Frankly, a lot of people act like douchebags because they are religious.

Because usually, they are pretty ignorant of what is in their holy books, and the Imaginary Sky Pixie is a great enabler for douchebaggery.

well, your religious views definitely explain why you are acting that way.

 

[martybegan]

Still Religious:
1. Third world nations & Muslim nations
2. USA

USA is the only western nation where you are not considered nuts if you believe in Noah's Ark and Creationism.

Will this ever change ?

Yes it will change. The biggest factor is that the United States is not a homogeneous culture like many European nations; it is a collection of sub-cultures. Some of those sub-cultures are militantly religious. Such groups can succeed by limiting contact with the broader world by supporting separate institutions such as schools and universities, using home schooling, and developing their own economic institutions. It doesn't matter if they are Islamic, Evangelical, FLDS, Hassidic, or Amish. The dynamics are the same.

There is a downside. If cultural groups have rights, those rights are carved out of basic human individual rights. None of these groups survive without being able to indoctrinate their children. We chose to accept child abuse, spousal abuse, denial of medical care, denial of educational opportunity, and similar abuses as acceptable costs of "freedom" for these groups. Indeed the hallmark of American freedom is that we allow groups to abuse their members free of government interference to a much larger degree than any other Western society. It is the epitome of "American exceptionalism".

I hope that slowly over time more Americans, especially those damaged by the excesses of these groups, will strike a better balance between group rights and individual rights. Perhaps some day freedom will come to mean more than the freedom to abuse and exploit others. Until then, there is nothing more dangerous in America to personal liberty than the freedoms of these groups to exploit and kill their own.

So basically the freedom for you to indoctrinate someone else's children as YOU see fit.

How Facist.

 

[martybegan]

This nation is religious now? hard to tell from the way people act.

Why would you say that?

Frankly, a lot of people act like douchebags because they are religious.

Because usually, they are pretty ignorant of what is in their holy books, and the Imaginary Sky Pixie is a great enabler for douchebaggery.

But usually the biggest arrogant douchebags come from the aethist side of the equation.

Its not suprising that people who believe in nothing bigger than themselves can tend to be assholes.

 

[JoeB131]

This nation is religious now? hard to tell from the way people act.

Why would you say that?

Frankly, a lot of people act like douchebags because they are religious.

Because usually, they are pretty ignorant of what is in their holy books, and the Imaginary Sky Pixie is a great enabler for douchebaggery.

well, your religious views definitely explain why you are acting that way.

My religious view is you treat people the right way because they deserve to as people, not because some imaginary sky pixie is going to punish you in the afterlife.

That's why atheists are more moral than religous people. We do the right thing because it's the right thing.

 

[Capstone]

This nation is religious now? ...

Always has been, but there was a definitive explosion where questionable breeding as a means of increasing the labor forces on family farms in the post-slavery era reigned supreme for awhile. Today this area with a high occurrence of low intelligence and other birth defects is commonly referred to as the Bible Belt (it's also known as the unofficial stomping grounds of the religious right).

Of course, there are several hubs of religious insanity outside of the belt ([COUGH]Utah[/COUGH]), but then you already knew that, didn't you.

 

[Capstone]

Its not suprising that people who believe in nothing bigger than themselves can tend to be assholes.

As opposed to those who not only believe in "something bigger than themselves" ...but claim to know its name and the guidelines for serving, praising, and worshiping it?

There is no bigger asshole than the one with a single answer to all of the questions and mysteries of the universe: my Goddidit.

 

[martybegan]

Its not suprising that people who believe in nothing bigger than themselves can tend to be assholes.

As opposed to those who not only believe in "something bigger than themselves" ...but claim to know its name and the guidelines for serving, praising, and worshiping it?

There is no bigger asshole than the one with a single answer to all of the questions and mysteries of the universe: my Goddidit.

I find them to be far less condescending and far more humble than hard core asshole atheists.

At least with them they can be content that God will judge thier opponents, Atheists have no such fall back, so they pretty much have to be dicks in this life to get thier jollies out of the situation.

 

[Capstone]

I find them to be far less condescending and far more humble than hard core asshole atheists. [...]

True, there's something intrinsically humbling about the notion of submission to faith in the absence of reason.

[...] At least with them they can be content that God will judge thier opponents, Atheists have no such fall back, so they pretty much have to be dicks in this life to get thier jollies out of the situation.

Yeah, that must be it.

It probably has nothing to do with the concerted efforts of religious nuts to impose their twisted views on society at large throughout human history; and more locally, it certainly has zilcho to do with the American political scene (no matter how many stupid wedge issues exist as a means of pulling the strings of overtly religious voting blocks).

I'm not an atheist, but I can definitely see a clear rationale for browbeating religious kooks at every turn.

 

[martybegan]

I find them to be far less condescending and far more humble than hard core asshole atheists. [...]

True, there's something intrinsically humbling about the notion of submission to faith in the absence of reason.

[...] At least with them they can be content that God will judge thier opponents, Atheists have no such fall back, so they pretty much have to be dicks in this life to get thier jollies out of the situation.

Yeah, that must be it.

It probably has nothing to do with the concerted efforts of religious nuts to impose their twisted views on society at large throughout human history; and more locally, it certainly has zilcho to do with the American political scene (no matter how many stupid wedge issues exist as a means of pulling the strings of overtly religious voting blocks).

I'm not an atheist, but I can definitely see a clear rationale for browbeating religious kooks at every turn.

Define a "religous nut"

You sure as hell sound like an asshole atheist.

 

[dilloduck]

Why would you say that?

Frankly, a lot of people act like douchebags because they are religious.

Because usually, they are pretty ignorant of what is in their holy books, and the Imaginary Sky Pixie is a great enabler for douchebaggery.

well, your religious views definitely explain why you are acting that way.

My religious view is you treat people the right way because they deserve to as people, not because some imaginary sky pixie is going to punish you in the afterlife.

That's why atheists are more moral than religous people. We do the right thing because it's the right thing.

Oh yes----Stalin was great guy.

 

[konradv]

well, your religious views definitely explain why you are acting that way.

My religious view is you treat people the right way because they deserve to as people, not because some imaginary sky pixie is going to punish you in the afterlife.

That's why atheists are more moral than religous people. We do the right thing because it's the right thing.

Oh yes----Stalin was great guy.

1st century Rome- Pagan and rules most of the Western world.

4th-5th centuries- Becomes Christianized and in less than 100 years Rome sacked by barbarians.

 

[martybegan]

Oh yes----Stalin was great guy.

Well, he was no Hitler or Mussolini (two very religious guys of some note), but only because Josef (named for St. Joseph, BTW) was violently abused as a child in a poor but extremely religious household. There were also the five years spent in a Greek Orthodox seminary, only after which did he renounce his religion. Take heart though, because [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Stalin-In-depth-Biography-Explosive-Documents/dp/0385479549]according to Stalin biographer Edvard Radzinsky,[/ame] "During his mysterious retreat [of June 1941] the ex-seminarist had decided to involve the aid of the God he had rejected." (Radinsky also listed a number of religious comrades from Stalin's circle). So, for better or worse, it's clear that religion played an important role in Stalin's life.

Wanna talk more about Hitler or Mussolini now?

There is no evidence that Hitler was religous at all. He left religous stuff to the other Nazis, who were big fans of making worship of the state and Party the offical religion.

Mussolini is a pimple on Hitler's ass, not even worth mentioning in a conversation like this.

 

[Capstone]

Regarding Hitler's lack of faith, the following is an excerpt from a speech in Munich:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited."

Now, whether he was actually a Christian or just a 'self-proclaimed' one (as the more informed apologists like to argue), he was certainly religious in much of his rhetoric and he definitely knew how to use the faith of hiss countrymen to his advantage.

 

[dilloduck]

Oh yes----Stalin was great guy.

Well, he was no Hitler or Mussolini (two very religious guys of some note), but only because Josef (named for St. Joseph, BTW) was violently abused as a child in a poor but extremely religious household. There were also the five years spent in a Greek Orthodox seminary, only after which did he renounce his religion. Take heart though, because [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Stalin-In-depth-Biography-Explosive-Documents/dp/0385479549]according to Stalin biographer Edvard Radzinsky,[/ame] "During his mysterious retreat [of June 1941] the ex-seminarist had decided to involve the aid of the God he had rejected." (Radzinsky also listed a number of religious comrades from Stalin's circle). So, for better or worse, it's clear that religion played an important role in Stalin's life.

Wanna talk more about Hitler or Mussolini now?

Stalin led an atheist and communist regime that killed more than Hitler ever dreamed of killing.