Not the view you were looking for: A conservative woman's view on abortion

[NYcarbineer]

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So... Infancy?

No, life begins whenever a person in good faith and good conscience believes it to begin, were citizens may not seek to compel others to accept their beliefs through force of law.

Each individual is at liberty to decide for himself when life begins, absent unwarranted interference from the state.

I don't feel compelled to believe that Dims have attained life as of yet.

So long as they are dependent on Big Brother for their survival they should not be consdered viable.

And this is typical of the stupidity common to most on the right – ridiculous partisan idiocy, contributing nothing of merit or worth.

But it all boils down to what we value as being equal to our person

Slaves were deemed as glorified animals, not human.

Jews were viewed as vermin, not human

Non-Muslims are viewed as infidels, not human.

The fetus is a parasite, not human.

And the list goes on

Are you willing to start putting women in prison for life for having abortions?

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So... Infancy?

No, life begins whenever a person in good faith and good conscience believes it to begin, were citizens may not seek to compel others to accept their beliefs through force of law.

Each individual is at liberty to decide for himself when life begins, absent unwarranted interference from the state.

Are you sure you want to go with this stance, given how few of us consider YOU to be a living, valuable human being? Subjective life and value are dangerous territory for you. I'm just sayin' . . .

 

[Cecilie1200]

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So... Infancy?

No, life begins whenever a person in good faith and good conscience believes it to begin, were citizens may not seek to compel others to accept their beliefs through force of law.

Each individual is at liberty to decide for himself when life begins, absent unwarranted interference from the state.

I don't feel compelled to believe that Dims have attained life as of yet.

So long as they are dependent on Big Brother for their survival they should not be consdered viable.

And this is typical of the stupidity common to most on the right – ridiculous partisan idiocy, contributing nothing of merit or worth.

Um, you just got done telling us that life is determined by whether or not other people want to believe it exists. You are no judge of merit, worth, or reality whatsoever.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So... Infancy?

No, life begins whenever a person in good faith and good conscience believes it to begin, were citizens may not seek to compel others to accept their beliefs through force of law.

Each individual is at liberty to decide for himself when life begins, absent unwarranted interference from the state.

Are you sure you want to go with this stance, given how few of us consider YOU to be a living, valuable human being? Subjective life and value are dangerous territory for you. I'm just sayin' . . .

Are you willing to send women to prison for life for having abortions?

 

[NYcarbineer]

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So... Infancy?

No, life begins whenever a person in good faith and good conscience believes it to begin, were citizens may not seek to compel others to accept their beliefs through force of law.

Each individual is at liberty to decide for himself when life begins, absent unwarranted interference from the state.

I don't feel compelled to believe that Dims have attained life as of yet.

So long as they are dependent on Big Brother for their survival they should not be consdered viable.

And this is typical of the stupidity common to most on the right – ridiculous partisan idiocy, contributing nothing of merit or worth.

Um, you just got done telling us that life is determined by whether or not other people want to believe it exists. You are no judge of merit, worth, or reality whatsoever.

You determine when you believe life begins via your belief in what penalty should befall someone who kills a fetus.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Are you willing to send women to prison for life for having abortions?

Dude, holy shit. Not only are you one-note regarding abortion but you're literally almost single-post about it. I've seen you ask this, ask this except about the death penalty rather than life in prison, and insist that you personally decide both who's a person and that sex and reproduction aren't linked in any way except in the diseased minds of everyone who isn't you. That's about it. You really need to an actual argument if you want people to begin taking you seriously. Anyway, I'll just remind everyone that you got your answer from me in the thread you and your friends recently hijacked and completely ignored it:

Would you put a woman to death for 1st degree murder for using the so-called morning after pill?

Please refer to the first page: "I feel like you're trying to write the issue of abortion specifically between the lines. Read only what I actually said and you'll be closer to what I was actually saying. That's explained again below in my reply to Sonny Clark."

This applies. I understand that you're single topic, but this thread wasn't about abortion specifically. It was about the general and irreconcilable differences between liberal and non-liberal approaches to reality as demonstrated by the total disconnect when it comes to questions in biology. I'm absolutely against capital punishment btw. It's barbaric and beneath us as higher beings.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you willing to send women to prison for life for having abortions?

Dude, holy shit. Not only are you one-note regarding abortion but you're literally almost single-post about it. I've seen you ask this, ask this except about the death penalty rather than life in prison, and insist that you personally decide both who's a person and that sex and reproduction aren't linked in any way except in the diseased minds of everyone who isn't you. That's about it. You really need to an actual argument if you want people to begin taking you seriously. Anyway, I'll just remind everyone that you got your answer from me in the thread you and your friends recently hijacked and completely ignored it:

[/QUOTE]

The argument is simple. If you think the fetus is a person, then the killing of a fetus is the crime of murder and women should be punished accordingly.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you willing to send women to prison for life for having abortions?

Dude, holy shit. Not only are you one-note regarding abortion but you're literally almost single-post about it. ]

I only need one note because my one note is unassailable from the perspectives of logic, reason, and the law.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

The argument is simple. If you think the fetus is a person, then the killing of a fetus is the crime of murder and women should be punished accordingly.

I'm not sure what's hard to understand about "I don't support capital punishment under any circumstance".

 

[kaz]

Funny, Coyote, it doesn't begin at 25 weeks. We all equate a heartbeat with the presence of life, that happens in the first 3-5 weeks.

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So what about answering my question. Can you be charged with murder then for killing a fetus? Stop running away and address the question. If it's not a life, how can anyone killing it be murder?

Courts are finding a way to thread the needle.

Courts Split Abortion and Fetus Murder

That isn't the point of the question. Dragonlady apparently gets it since she keeps running away and hiding from it.

Her argument is that a baby isn't a human, it's a potential human. If that's the case, no one else could be charged with murder either.

Even when liberals are right, it's always for the wrong reason. Government has no legitimate power to force a woman to carry a baby to term, that is why abortion should be legal. Not because the fetus isn't a human, which isn't true.

Liberals group think a position then justify it, which is why every standard you claim to hold you contradict on other issues

I love the dementia of conservatives like kaz who even though they agree with liberals on abortion, they come in and argue with the liberals.

Give me a position that I have that is conservative and not libertarian or you're going bye bye until next April. I'm tired of arguing with eight year olds

 

[kaz]

No, we equate life with the ability of the fetus to survive outside the womb. That's when life begins.

So what about answering my question. Can you be charged with murder then for killing a fetus? Stop running away and address the question. If it's not a life, how can anyone killing it be murder?

Courts are finding a way to thread the needle.

Courts Split Abortion and Fetus Murder

That isn't the point of the question. Dragonlady apparently gets it since she keeps running away and hiding from it.

Her argument is that a baby isn't a human, it's a potential human. If that's the case, no one else could be charged with murder either.

Even when liberals are right, it's always for the wrong reason. Government has no legitimate power to force a woman to carry a baby to term, that is why abortion should be legal. Not because the fetus isn't a human, which isn't true.

Liberals group think a position then justify it, which is why every standard you claim to hold you contradict on other issues

I love the dementia of conservatives like kaz who even though they agree with liberals on abortion, they come in and argue with the liberals.

Because not everyone who agrees with liberals has to agree with you, Carbine.

I said that I am pro-choice like liberals, but that I disagree with the argument that a fetus isn't a human. Liberals don't either, they are hypocrites on that, they contradict it in other positions. Government just doesn't have a legitimate right to force a woman to carry a baby inside her body.

It's simple, clear, and completely beyond NYCrybaby's comprehension. He's about to go away from my screen for the next 9 months so he's going to be your problem until then

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Only that kind of person could think this is okay:
Woman Asks Pro-Life Movement to Donate 1 Million to Prevent Her Abortion VICE News

 

[Dragonlady]

Liberals don't say that a fetus isn't human, we say it's not a human life yet.

The decision to have a baby is the most life altering decision a woman can make, and one which changes the lives of everyone in her family. As such, it is not a choice that anyone else can make for her.

The idea that women should be forced to give birth to a child she cannot afford to carry or bear, is barbaric in the extreme. It is just as barbaric as forcing her to abort a child she wants.

When you're prepared to give women health care, child care and paid maternity leave, the number of abortions will come down. But not until.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Liberals don't say that a fetus isn't human, we say it's not a human life yet.

The decision to have a baby is the most life altering decision a woman can make, and one which changes the lives of everyone in her family. As such, it is not a choice that anyone else can make for her.

The idea that women should be forced to give birth to a child she cannot afford to carry or bear, is barbaric in the extreme. It is just as barbaric as forcing her to abort a child she wants.

When you're prepared to give women health care, child care and paid maternity leave, the number of abortions will come down. But not until.

Actual pro-lifers do support quality universal healthcare, free child care, and paid leave for both parents. Since when do anti-lifers give a damn about forced abortion? Unless it's based on the gender of the child I mean.

 

[auditor0007]

I know, I know, The View is nothing more than a liberal echo chamber, but Carly Fiorina chose to jump into the lions den despite that fact. In a feature segment involving Fiorina, Whoopi Goldberg during the segment decided to ambush the former Hewlett-Packard CEO with a rather pointed question on the issue of abortion, while also questioning her Christian values..

“Are you going to run as a person who’s going to govern for everyone, or are you running on your Christian beliefs?” Goldberg asked. “Because you said some wonderful things and it made me beg the question ... if you feel that women should have the choices ... why do you think choice is not a good thing?”

Fiorina promptly flattened Goldberg with an equally pointed and scientific answer.

“Well, look abortion is obviously a very delicate subject, she replied. "I happen to believe that science is proving us right. The DNA in a zygote is the same as the DNA the day you die, we do have common ground on this issue now.”

“The majority of women, the majority of young people, the majority of Americans now think that late-term abortion for any reason at all is a problem,” Fiorina continued. “So what I say is, let’s go find that common ground.”

Out of the hockey team of Republican candidates, she is one of the few that I can at least stomach. As for what she said on abortion, she is correct, there is a common ground where we could find some agreement, especially when it comes to late term abortions. The problem pro-choice supporters have is that most right to lifers will only use such an agreement to push for more and more until they get what they truly want. It's not like cons want to compromise on abortion and then leave it at that. They would use any compromise as a stepping stone to abolish abortion completely. That is and has always been the problem and reason we can't come to any agreement on abortion in this country, but she is correct that the majority of Americans do not support late term abortion.

 

[Dragonlady]

Liberals don't say that a fetus isn't human, we say it's not a human life yet.

The decision to have a baby is the most life altering decision a woman can make, and one which changes the lives of everyone in her family. As such, it is not a choice that anyone else can make for her.

The idea that women should be forced to give birth to a child she cannot afford to carry or bear, is barbaric in the extreme. It is just as barbaric as forcing her to abort a child she wants.

When you're prepared to give women health care, child care and paid maternity leave, the number of abortions will come down. But not until.

Actual pro-lifers do support quality universal healthcare, free child care, and paid leave for both parents. Since when do anti-lifers give a damn about forced abortion? Unless it's based on the gender of the child I mean.

The anti-abortion crowd on this board don't support any kind of assistance to pregnant women. Their whole stance seems to be that you know when you have sex, a pregnancy can result so don't have sex unless you want a baby. Not very realistic advice for married women.

Scratch an anti-abortionist and you get someone who thinks that only horny teenagers have abortions. Or slatternly party girls.

I've posted links which show that women who have abortions are overwhelmingly poor, the majority are married or in a committed relationship, and they already have one or more children.

I've posted links which show that in countries where there are more family supports and mandatory sex education there are fewer abortions, even when they're free. None of these asshats even bother to read them.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

The anti-abortion crowd on this board don't support any kind of assistance to pregnant women. Their whole stance seems to be that you know when you have sex, a pregnancy can result so don't have sex unless you want a baby. Not very realistic advice for married women.

Scratch an anti-abortionist and you get someone who thinks that only horny teenagers have abortions. Or slatternly party girls.

I've posted links which show that women who have abortions are overwhelmingly poor, the majority are married or in a committed relationship, and they already have one or more children.

I've posted links which show that in countries where there are more family supports and mandatory sex education there are fewer abortions, even when they're free. None of these asshats even bother to read them.

I agree. An effective pro-life policy would require support for quality universal healthcare, a available and livable welfare, and an adoption system that isn't broken, among other things. Opposition to socialism is opposition to the well being of families and the poor by definition. I mean, you can hardly be pro-life when you're against struggling parents.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Liberals don't say that a fetus isn't human, we say it's not a human life yet.

"We don't spout THAT ignorant unfounded bullshit. We spout THIS ignorant unfounded bullshit instead."

The decision to have a baby is the most life altering decision a woman can make, and one which changes the lives of everyone in her family. As such, it is not a choice that anyone else can make for her.

The idea that women should be forced to give birth to a child she cannot afford to carry or bear, is barbaric in the extreme. It is just as barbaric as forcing her to abort a child she wants.

"It's barbaric that you can't remake the world and the consequences of your actions just by wishing. Also, it's barbaric that puffs of pastel glitter don't issue from my ass when I fart!"

When you're prepared to give women health care, child care and paid maternity leave, the number of abortions will come down. But not until.

"We'll stop killing babies when you sufficiently nanny us like the helpless, ignorant vaginas on legs that we are. Fuck that whole 'intelligent, independent equality' bullshit!"

 

[Dragonlady]

Liberals don't say that a fetus isn't human, we say it's not a human life yet.

"We don't spout THAT ignorant unfounded bullshit. We spout THIS ignorant unfounded bullshit instead."

The decision to have a baby is the most life altering decision a woman can make, and one which changes the lives of everyone in her family. As such, it is not a choice that anyone else can make for her.

The idea that women should be forced to give birth to a child she cannot afford to carry or bear, is barbaric in the extreme. It is just as barbaric as forcing her to abort a child she wants.

"It's barbaric that you can't remake the world and the consequences of your actions just by wishing. Also, it's barbaric that puffs of pastel glitter don't issue from my ass when I fart!"

When you're prepared to give women health care, child care and paid maternity leave, the number of abortions will come down. But not until.

"We'll stop killing babies when you sufficiently nanny us like the helpless, ignorant vaginas on legs that we are. Fuck that whole 'intelligent, independent equality' bullshit!"

I rest my case.

 

[Coyote]

[We'll stop killing babies when you sufficiently nanny us like the helpless, ignorant vaginas on legs that we are. Fuck that whole 'intelligent, independent equality' bullshit!"

So pretty much it's: fuck you - you were slutty enough to get pregnant - we are going to force you to have that baby, regardless of your ability to care for it.

Yet one more bit of evidence that you don't give a crap about them once they are born.