North Pole temperature 20C/36F above average

[Fort Fun Indiana]

False. Did you make that up yourself?

Are these saying that they are simulation models?

As opposed to....Viking thermometer records?

As opposed to maybe ice drill extracts records or wood fossil ring thickness record or ...

Why? Do you have a better understanding of ice cores than you do climate models? I doubt it.

As a scientist, simulations should always bother you. Everything can be simulated. But not everything can happen.

Fascinating. But with models of past climate, the models have to match the data. So I'm not sure you're making a good point,there.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Are these saying that they are simulation models?

As opposed to....Viking thermometer records?

As opposed to maybe ice drill extracts records or wood fossil ring thickness record or ...

Why? Do you have a better understanding of ice cores than you do climate models? I doubt it.

As a scientist, simulations should always bother you. Everything can be simulated. But not everything can happen.

Fascinating. But with models of past climate, the models have to match the data. So I'm not sure you're making a good point,there.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Arctic Weather Map

4 cardinal point today

Barrow -6F
Alert -27F
Vize -8F
Kotel -24F

What's the melting point of ice?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

As opposed to....Viking thermometer records?

As opposed to maybe ice drill extracts records or wood fossil ring thickness record or ...

Why? Do you have a better understanding of ice cores than you do climate models? I doubt it.

As a scientist, simulations should always bother you. Everything can be simulated. But not everything can happen.

Fascinating. But with models of past climate, the models have to match the data. So I'm not sure you're making a good point,there.

View attachment 235441

Sorry, but you forgot to make your point .

 

[anotherlife]

As opposed to maybe ice drill extracts records or wood fossil ring thickness record or ...

Why? Do you have a better understanding of ice cores than you do climate models? I doubt it.

As a scientist, simulations should always bother you. Everything can be simulated. But not everything can happen.

Fascinating. But with models of past climate, the models have to match the data. So I'm not sure you're making a good point,there.

View attachment 235441

Sorry, but you forgot to make your point .

Looks like the point is in the diagrams, in that the temperature trend follows not the desired CO2 data but the undesired sunshine data.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Why? Do you have a better understanding of ice cores than you do climate models? I doubt it.

As a scientist, simulations should always bother you. Everything can be simulated. But not everything can happen.

Fascinating. But with models of past climate, the models have to match the data. So I'm not sure you're making a good point,there.

View attachment 235441

Sorry, but you forgot to make your point .

Looks like the point is in the diagrams, in that the temperature trend follows not the desired CO2 data but the undesired sunshine data.

Its to complicated for him.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

in that the temperature trend follows not the desired CO2 data but the undesired sunshine data.

Or that it did, only in the arctic, correlating only to solar activity, actually.

Is that the only point? Got it.

 

[anotherlife]

Are these saying that they are simulation models?

As opposed to....Viking thermometer records?

As opposed to maybe ice drill extracts records or wood fossil ring thickness record or ...

Why? Do you have a better understanding of ice cores than you do climate models? I doubt it.

As a scientist, simulations should always bother you. Everything can be simulated. But not everything can happen.

Fascinating. But with models of past climate, the models have to match the data. So I'm not sure you're making a good point,there.

Simulation models are never fully scientific. There are probably like 20 alternative ways for computer simulations to reproduce a measured statistics. Also, the previous argument in this thread was that measurement data for the medieval past are unavailable to match for.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Its to complicated for him.

No, I just wanted to hear it in your words. I will assume his words are yours, then. And I got the only point you made (but couldn't say weird):In the arctic, surface temps correlate well to solar irradiance.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Simulation models are never fully scientific.

Cool. But the ones that match the past have to also match the data. Are you suggesting they do not or may not? And do you think that, oh just maybe, the people who have dedicated their lives to this may have thought of this? The data I presented is an amalgamation of the data, too.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Simulation models are never fully scientific.

Cool. But the ones that match the past have to also match the data. Are you suggesting they do not or may not? And do you think that, oh just may

be, the people who have dedicated their lives to this may have thought of this? The data I presented is an amalgamation of the data, too.

Dedicated their lives to a fraud, like Hansen, cook and Mann?

.

 

[anotherlife]

Simulation models are never fully scientific.

Cool. But the ones that match the past have to also match the data. Are you suggesting they do not or may not? And do you think that, oh just maybe, the people who have dedicated their lives to this may have thought of this? The data I presented is an amalgamation of the data, too.

I don't have a strong view for or against human made climate change theories, but just for general scientific interest, when you need to use a very large number of parameters, you are really doing only engineering work, and not scientific, because then you can always pre fabricate a non singular set of combinations of those parameters to reproduce the same data but with variable assumptions about its mechanism. This is especially true when you vary the number of the parameters too.

 

[anotherlife]

Simulation models are never fully scientific.

Cool. But the ones that match the past have to also match the data. Are you suggesting they do not or may not? And do you think that, oh just may

be, the people who have dedicated their lives to this may have thought of this? The data I presented is an amalgamation of the data, too.

Dedicated their lives to a fraud, like Hansen, cook and Mann?

.

Not necessarily fraud, if they buy carbon tax backed bonds and other securities. Those scientists will make good money with that.

 

[anotherlife]

Still far not as high as they were in the days of the Viking conquests

False. Did you make that up yourself?

What I don't understand in this diagram is, that both the Orange and dark blue curves are opposite the gray measured data in the beginning of the left of the diagram, assuming that the gray data are the fossil ice records. I mean trend wise per first differential.

 

[anotherlife]

Still far not as high as they were in the days of the Viking conquests

False. Did you make that up yourself?

One could also say that the error variance is similar in the 20th century to the medieval part of this graph, thereby this graph supports bear513's graph about the sunshine data fit, in contrast to the CO2 data fit.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Arctic Weather Map

4 cardinal point today

Barrow -11F
Alert -28F
Vize -15F
Kotel -26F

What the melting temperature of ice?