Nobody could have fixed the economy in 4 years.....

[Pinocchio]

In the old fable, the ants worked and saved in the summer for the winter, while the foolish grasshopper played and danced, and starved in the winter.

During Bush's prosperous years instead of saving, a 7 trillion dollar debt was accrued with tax cuts.

Summer and winter are natural cycles just like the economic cycle.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that you plant and harvest in the summer to eat in the winter, or build a savings reserve in the good times to carry you thru the hard times in the recession.

You have to spend your savings in the winter .... get it. It called Keynesian common sense.

Where were all the debt screamers during the Bush years??!!

 

[Oldstyle]

In the old fable, the ants worked and saved in the summer for the winter, while the foolish grasshopper played and danced, and starved in the winter.

During Bush's prosperous years instead of saving, a 7 trillion dollar debt was accrued with tax cuts.

Summer and winter are natural cycles just like the economic cycle.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that you plant and harvest in the summer to eat in the winter, or build a savings reserve in the good times to carry you thru the hard times in the recession.

You have to spend your savings in the winter .... get it. It called Keynesian common sense.

Where were all the debt screamers during the Bush years??!!

So let me see if I've got this straight...the Democrats are "ants" working and saving...and the Republicans are "grasshoppers" dancing and cavorting?

Yeah, that Nancy Pelosi...she's a regular little worker ant she is! Work work work...save save save!

And if you REALLY want to talk about Keynesian "common sense" then why are we increasing taxes on ANYONE in a bad economy? Or "winter" to use your analogy? Or is it only Keynesian common sense when it fits your agenda?

 

[Amazed]

Let's be honest with ourselves here...every time our government prints massive amounts of money and dumps it into the system it makes the money in our wallets worth less...that's the biggest "back door" tax there is. How many times has the Fed done that since Obama took office?

These Lefty's aren't informed enough to know Bammy has been monetizing the debt since he's been in office....and even if they did they wouldn't know what it meant.

Obama hasn't been monetizing the debt.

(smile) ahhhhhh....really?

The left likes to hide in semantics.....

Who issues the Bonds?

 

[Toro]

These Lefty's aren't informed enough to know Bammy has been monetizing the debt since he's been in office....and even if they did they wouldn't know what it meant.

Obama hasn't been monetizing the debt.

(smile) ahhhhhh....really?

The left likes to hide in semantics.....

Who issues the Bonds?

The Treasury.

This isn't about Left and Right. This is about understanding the basic functions of the government and monetary policy.

 

[Pinocchio]

And why did the brilliant Repubs cut taxes instead of raising them in the Bush's terms.

Not we are in deep ....

Get real ... dude !!!

 

[Amazed]

Obama hasn't been monetizing the debt.

(smile) ahhhhhh....really?

The left likes to hide in semantics.....

Who issues the Bonds?

The Treasury.

This isn't about Left and Right. This is about understanding the basic functions of the government and monetary policy.

Is the Treasury a part of the Federal Gov?

 

[Toro]

(smile) ahhhhhh....really?

The left likes to hide in semantics.....

Who issues the Bonds?

The Treasury.

This isn't about Left and Right. This is about understanding the basic functions of the government and monetary policy.

Is the Treasury a part of the Federal Gov?

Of course.

But the Treasury doesn't set monetary policy. Monetary policy is set by the FOMC. The President doesn't sit on the FOMC. So the President doesn't monetize the debt.

 

[Amazed]

The Treasury.

This isn't about Left and Right. This is about understanding the basic functions of the government and monetary policy.

Is the Treasury a part of the Federal Gov?

Of course.

But the Treasury doesn't set monetary policy. Monetary policy is set by the FOMC. The President doesn't sit on the FOMC. So the President doesn't monetize the debt.

(smile) Semantics again

Why does the Treasury issue bonds...is it just arbitrary?

 

[kiwiman127]

With post 270, the chart that displayed jobs recovery clearly show that it took 36 months for the the jobs to get back close where they were just prior to the beginning of the recession of 2001.
The 2001 recession was much, much smaller than the 2007 recession which is the 2nd biggest economic downturn of the economy ever.
Below is a chart that shows recoveries in different situations, the 2007 recovery was multifaceted. Here's the link and some very interesting observations:
IMF Survey: Global Recession to Be Long, Deep with Slow Recovery
Also here's an interesting article written in 2010 predicting the job market taking as long as 2014 to turn around.
How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America
How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America - Don Peck - The Atlantic
The point is that this recession is/was huge and very, very deep. Yeah, I definitely think Obama could have approached this recession in a very different way. But at the same time it is totally unrealistic to expect this recession's recovery to mirror previous recessions.
I also believe that all the playing politics with this recession by both sides of the aisle have contributed to the length of a full recovery. And from the looks of things and the posturing by both parties appears that the party over country attitude by both parties will only extend this slow recovery.
Some can point at Obama and the Dems and some can point to the GOP, but in fact it's both parties who should be getting the blunt of the criticism.

 

[Amazed]

Lets take a short cut, you are never going to give a straight answer

A United States Treasury security is a government debt issued by the United States Department of the Treasury through the Bureau of the Public Debt. Treasury securities are the debt financing instruments of the United States federal government, and they are often referred to simply as Treasuries. There are four types of marketable treasury securities: Treasury bills, Treasury notes, Treasury bonds, and Treasury Inflation Protected Securities (TIPS). There are several types of non-marketable treasury securities including State and Local Government Series (SLGS), Government Account Series debt issued to government-managed trust funds, and savings bonds. All of the marketable Treasury securities are very liquid and are heavily traded on the secondary market. The non-marketable securities (such as savings bonds) are issued to subscribers and cannot be transferred through market sales.

United States Treasury security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The bonds are to finance dedt incurred by....

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

The Federal Gov....the debt incurred lies at the feet of...

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!!!!

The President.....

SO...the Gov issues the bonds...USUALLY the Bonds are prchased by outside players...lately China et al...

But not THESE Bonds...nobody wants them...so guess how they get bought?????/

The Fed prints money to buy the bonds so that the Gov can pay its debt...it's called debt monetization and it all starts with the spending.

Sorry.

 

[Trajan]

My guess is that unemployment might be 0.5% better without Obama's policies. (Though, it might be higher if the Tea Party were in power.)

But history tells us that recoveries from balance sheet recessions are long and slow. I see no reason why America would be any different. In fact, it might be slower because unlike other countries with balance sheet recessions, America has a much more difficult time devaluing its currency which helps alleviate the contraction.

*shrugs* thx for the response.

I don't disagree that we would not be 'recovered', I disagree on your employment number and, whats more, on the issues we have had before us comprehensive scale, to wit-

his own policies or allowances have basically made it attractive for the banks et al to park money and earn in safety, instead of loan, after we have created the conditions that/to recapitalize/save them from their own misadventures to boot, I know you know this.

He has floated the housing market way past time, on a cornucopia of prgms that did nothing to help 'floor' it, which just keeps the wheels dug in, so any hang over adds to the drag we are experiencing now as well.

he has not been serious about jobs in a sense that, he just doesn't understand or doesn't want to, what fosters growth.

how many examples do we need? he told who was it charlie gibson(?) that raising taxes in a harsh economic environment wasn't wise, BUT, it was FAIR, he purposely and with forethought has hamstrung the energy sector from his federal perch, one of the few bright spots in the economy is the explosion in Private sector energy development, not that the EPA has not tried to unhinge that too, so add up this and the rest of it, he has not met with his cabinet or job council since jan., yes January, a hard edged vehement axe wielding rhetoric vis a vis biz, his total concentration on obamacare, if you think all of that is only worth a half a percent in unemployment, well, you are entitled to your opinion but I disagree, strongly.

and now here, to my point- he was not the man we needed.

some may think it unfair to ask someone who hasn't the tools to do a job that requires that which they do not have, well, not me.


he fully volunteered for and actively campaigned for the job, he is not performing, he refuses to learn and is hide bound to his viewpoint despite the results, which even in the asset bubble and balance sheet recession may be harder than most really is not germane in that in 4 years, we are in almost every context worse or just marginally better off than were we started, we elect and pay for performance, its not personal, it just .....is.

On the loans, one would not expect bank loans to rise when they are repairing their balance sheets. That's what happens in a credit contraction. Instead, banks focus first on repairing their balance sheets and disposing of bad loans. Once that happens, bank credit generally starts to expand again.

I understand that, I also understand that the fed. has attached/ratcheted up the 'incentives' for banks to increase their lending standards too. Loans granted 5 -7 years ago are not happening today becasue they are extra careful and the fed has helped make it so, except the problem wasn't lending to small or medium size biz, it was banks trying to use every means possible to leverage the up side and protect themselves at the same time, which using the housing market paper vehicles, got us here in the main. But that doesn't appear to be what they have fixed .......its one thing to not allow a small biz owner to collateralize their home to the extent they may require to fund a biz etc. , but considering the gobs of many F&F have swallowed and everything else, they could have thought of a way to untangle that or provide the right incentive.


we have certainly saved their asses, but we have not found a way to prompt them to loan to small and medium biz. , we seem to be incentivizing them the wrong way perhaps, in the end their balance sheets may still be shaky but we have become so gun shy that we have to an extent clogged up or locked up the system.

 

[Toro]

Lets take a short cut, you are never going to give a straight answer

A United States Treasury security is a government debt issued by the United States Department of the Treasury through the Bureau of the Public Debt. Treasury securities are the debt financing instruments of the United States federal government, and they are often referred to simply as Treasuries. There are four types of marketable treasury securities: Treasury bills, Treasury notes, Treasury bonds, and Treasury Inflation Protected Securities (TIPS). There are several types of non-marketable treasury securities including State and Local Government Series (SLGS), Government Account Series debt issued to government-managed trust funds, and savings bonds. All of the marketable Treasury securities are very liquid and are heavily traded on the secondary market. The non-marketable securities (such as savings bonds) are issued to subscribers and cannot be transferred through market sales.

United States Treasury security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The bonds are to finance dedt incurred by....

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

The Federal Gov....the debt incurred lies at the feet of...

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!!!!

The President.....

SO...the Gov issues the bonds...USUALLY the Bonds are prchased by outside players...lately China et al...

But not THESE Bonds...nobody wants them...so guess how they get bought?????/

The Fed prints money to buy the bonds so that the Gov can pay its debt...it's called debt monetization and it all starts with the spending.

Sorry.

I know how Treasury funding works. But the institution monetizing the debt is the FOMC, not the White House. The White House does not set monetary policy. The Fed's decisions cannot be over-riden by anyone, including the White House. Thus, the White House cannot, by law, monetize the debt. Under current law, only the FOMC can. The President does not set interest rates. Only the FOMC does. This is basic stuff.

 

[Amazed]

Lets take a short cut, you are never going to give a straight answer

A United States Treasury security is a government debt issued by the United States Department of the Treasury through the Bureau of the Public Debt. Treasury securities are the debt financing instruments of the United States federal government, and they are often referred to simply as Treasuries. There are four types of marketable treasury securities: Treasury bills, Treasury notes, Treasury bonds, and Treasury Inflation Protected Securities (TIPS). There are several types of non-marketable treasury securities including State and Local Government Series (SLGS), Government Account Series debt issued to government-managed trust funds, and savings bonds. All of the marketable Treasury securities are very liquid and are heavily traded on the secondary market. The non-marketable securities (such as savings bonds) are issued to subscribers and cannot be transferred through market sales.

United States Treasury security - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The bonds are to finance dedt incurred by....

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

The Federal Gov....the debt incurred lies at the feet of...

DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!!!!

The President.....

SO...the Gov issues the bonds...USUALLY the Bonds are prchased by outside players...lately China et al...

But not THESE Bonds...nobody wants them...so guess how they get bought?????/

The Fed prints money to buy the bonds so that the Gov can pay its debt...it's called debt monetization and it all starts with the spending.

Sorry.

I know how Treasury funding works. But the institution monetizing the debt is the FOMC, not the White House. The White House does not set monetary policy. The Fed's decisions cannot be over-riden by anyone, including the White House. Thus, the White House cannot, by law, monetize the debt. Under current law, only the FOMC can. The President does not set interest rates. Only the FOMC does. This is basic stuff.

The debt Obama is incurring is being monetized buy the Fed run by his appointee, period.

You are still playing the semantics game here.

 

[Amazed]

The debt was bad under Bush, but this didn't happen then, sorry....the last time it happened was in the 60's.....

 

[Toro]

The debt Obama is incurring is being monetized buy the Fed run by his appointee, period.

You are still playing the semantics game here.

No, I understand the separation of powers and the operations of the FOMC. The FOMC is an independent body. It's decisions cannot be over-riden by any other governmental body, including the White House. It would be semantics if the President was telling Bernanke what to do. But the President does not. The FOMC Chairman can tell the President to take a hike, which is what Volcker did to Reagan and Greenspan did to Bush I.

 

[bitterlyclingin]

It took twelve years for FDR to fix the Great Depression, during which he promised not to stop smashing individual businesses or entire industries until the economy recovered. He had to start WWII and die first, though before it got fixed. We've got a four year start on the next Great Depression with Mr Obama's "Fundamental Transformation Of America" under way so far.
After the DNC if you're not lying awake at night wondering how Sharia Law will intermix with Communism and American Capitalism you should start pretty soon.

 

[Oldstyle]

And why did the brilliant Repubs cut taxes instead of raising them in the Bush's terms.

Not we are in deep ....

Get real ... dude !!!

Do you even understand the basic theory behind Keynesian economics, Pinocchio? Keynes advocated tax cuts and increased government spending during economic slowdowns and the increase of taxes during economic booms to repay that.

 

[Rozman]

President Clinton in his speech last night stated that although he inherited a bad economy from Bush Sr., the economy that Obama received from Bush Jr. was much worse, and that no president, not him, nor any of his predecessors could have fixed the economy in only 4 years.

Maybe Obama's new slogan should be "saved in 4, fixed by 8".

If Obama gets elected and we get another 4 years like these last 4 years
Chris Mathews will be saying the same thing as he supervises Obama's
ceremony at Mt.Rushmore as former President Obama's likeness is revealed...

Now some will cry racism as Obama's likeness is off by himself and not near the
others but Mathews will explain that Obama's accomplishments totally shadow
the other Presidents and Obama should be held in a higher regard.

 

[Rozman]

Obama's slogan will be Bin Laden is dead GM is alive and I am outta here!
Gonna get me some nice speaking money.

Thanks TM....
Thanks rdean...
Thanks Ravi....

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Only in a liberals mind are problems too large to overcome. What a lame excuse.