NO, Unemployment is NOT DOWN

[RKMBrown]

What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?

The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.

That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."

Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.

But you're a rightwingnut who doesn't understand that companies paying minimum wage rarely resort to those measures. The majority of minimum wage jobs are food and hospitality services. Companies like McDonald's are neither hiring illegal aliens for less than minimum wage or moving their fry cooks offshore. Companies are far more likely to raise their prices than fire employees, whom they need to run their business, to compensate the higher salaries. And as shown in the chart I posted, sometimes unemployment goes up after a minimum wage hike ... and sometimes it goes down.

You are wrong, the result of raising minimum wage on services companies like McDonalds and Grocery stores is automated service. Eg. frozen pre-prepared food, push buttons, touch screens, and ring it up yourself.

My goodness, you're a fucking idiot. Those are the results of advancing technologies, not increases to minimum wage, which companies regularly take advantage of to cut costs whether the minimum wage is raised or not. Companies already paying more than minimum wage do that and minimum wage paying companies do that even when the minimum wage is not increased. That has nothing to do with the minimum wage. And must you be reminded, you already made the asinine claim that minimum wage jobs are being offshored or given to illegal aliens? It's too late to change your idiotic point, you already made it. Are you capable of not being a moron?

You're a fucking liar and a pussy. You have miss-represented what I said, yet again on a separate topic in a vain attempt to move the goal posts.

Whether to go with automated systems or people is a matter of cost, profitability, and customer satisfaction.

 

[Faun]

Whether to go with automated systems or people is a matter of cost, profitability, and customer satisfaction.

Of course it is. And that is not a reaction to increasing the minimum wage. Virtually all companies do that regardless of whether or not they pay minimum wage. Virtually all minimum wage companies do that regardless of Whether or not the minimum wage is increased.

 

[pinqy]

Whether to go with automated systems or people is a matter of cost, profitability, and customer satisfaction.

Of course it is. And that is not a reaction to increasing the minimum wage. .

But it can be. If it's cheaper to hire people than invest in new machines, then people will be hired. If it's cheaper to to automated, then automation will replace some people.

Depending on the circumstances, raising the minimum wage can increase, decrease, or have no effect on unemployment or employment.

 

[Faun]

Whether to go with automated systems or people is a matter of cost, profitability, and customer satisfaction.

Of course it is. And that is not a reaction to increasing the minimum wage. .

But it can be. If it's cheaper to hire people than invest in new machines, then people will be hired. If it's cheaper to to automated, then automation will replace some people.

Depending on the circumstances, raising the minimum wage can increase, decrease, or have no effect on unemployment or employment.

We're talking about firing people. Companies are not saying, Oh look, minimum wage went up. Fire these people and replace them with a machine. If they were going to fire those people in lieu of a machine, they were going to do it anyway, even if minimum wage had not been increased

 

[edthecynic]

Nonsense. There is no such correlation. Sometimes unemployment increased following minimum wage increases; other times it fell. There are other factors affecting unemployment, not increasing the minimum wage.

What part of my statement "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor" confused you so bad that you think I meant the opposite of what I said?

The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.

That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."

Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.

Wrong. Minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment. Quite the opposite. You must be a democrat.

You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.

Liar, you "qualified" no such thing. And I linked to the full post, so go cry to the mods like the sniveling little baby you are.

 

[edthecynic]

The part where you said, "minimum wage increases unemployment." It does not.

That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."

Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.

Wrong. Minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment. Quite the opposite. You must be a democrat.

You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.

Stop crying like a baby. He did not misquote you. He quoted you verbatim, as did I. You said, "minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment." which is patently absurd as evidenced by the chart I posted. Your further explanation as to where you think those jobs disappear does not alter the meaning of the part we quoted.

Wrong. I clearly explained that when there are no rules to force the jobs to stay in place, forcing the wages up is equivalent to forcing the jobs out of our market. Thus while I indicated that in our environment where there are no rules forcing jobs to stay in place... minimum wage increases unemployment. Thus I was quoted out of context. Removing qualifying statements from a statement is miss-quoting.

For example, in Germany there are laws against offshoring and layoffs... thus forced minimum wage hikes, if the company can stay in business, might not result in more unemployment... rather it might result in less profit in the short term instead if the prices can't be raised.

No, you said profit/investor cash goes up either way.

Now if investment cash increases then, we are told by the Right, jobs increase, so by your own "logic" raising wages increases jobs reducing unemployment. You talk yourself into such circles you don't even know what YOU said.

As for your accusation that forcing corporations to leave to seek lower wage labor... somehow corrects for a poverty of money in our money based markets... Whether corporations get lower wage labor through off-shoring or through lower labor rates here in the states... either way the profits go up and you get more investors. So either way profit, thus investor cash is tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor.

 

[pinqy]

Whether to go with automated systems or people is a matter of cost, profitability, and customer satisfaction.

Of course it is. And that is not a reaction to increasing the minimum wage. .

But it can be. If it's cheaper to hire people than invest in new machines, then people will be hired. If it's cheaper to to automated, then automation will replace some people.

Depending on the circumstances, raising the minimum wage can increase, decrease, or have no effect on unemployment or employment.

We're talking about firing people. Companies are not saying, Oh look, minimum wage went up. Fire these people and replace them with a machine. If they were going to fire those people in lieu of a machine, they were going to do it anyway, even if minimum wage had not been increased

Not necessarily. A company will go with whatever will maximize profit. Automation came about because wages were going up and labor was becoming too expensive.

 

[RKMBrown]

Whether to go with automated systems or people is a matter of cost, profitability, and customer satisfaction.

Of course it is. And that is not a reaction to increasing the minimum wage. Virtually all companies do that regardless of whether or not they pay minimum wage. Virtually all minimum wage companies do that regardless of Whether or not the minimum wage is increased.

Correct. And the effect of increasing minimum wage on MINIMUM WAGE JOBS and thus on PAYROLL enters into the formula.

 

[RKMBrown]

That's not what I said. I said "tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor." I did not say "minimum wage increases unemployment."

Can you tell the difference? Do you or do you not understand that employers have a choice when you raise minimum wage. Their choice is give those people a raise or fire them and replace them will illegal workers off shore workers... or just fire the higher paid folk and off shore those jobs to make up for the payroll increase. Happens every time minimum wage goes up. People loose jobs.

Wrong. Minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment. Quite the opposite. You must be a democrat.

You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.

Stop crying like a baby. He did not misquote you. He quoted you verbatim, as did I. You said, "minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment." which is patently absurd as evidenced by the chart I posted. Your further explanation as to where you think those jobs disappear does not alter the meaning of the part we quoted.

Wrong. I clearly explained that when there are no rules to force the jobs to stay in place, forcing the wages up is equivalent to forcing the jobs out of our market. Thus while I indicated that in our environment where there are no rules forcing jobs to stay in place... minimum wage increases unemployment. Thus I was quoted out of context. Removing qualifying statements from a statement is miss-quoting.

For example, in Germany there are laws against offshoring and layoffs... thus forced minimum wage hikes, if the company can stay in business, might not result in more unemployment... rather it might result in less profit in the short term instead if the prices can't be raised.

No, you said profit/investor cash goes up either way.

Now if investment cash increases then, we are told by the Right, jobs increase, so by your own "logic" raising wages increases jobs reducing unemployment. You talk yourself into such circles you don't even know what YOU said.

As for your accusation that forcing corporations to leave to seek lower wage labor... somehow corrects for a poverty of money in our money based markets... Whether corporations get lower wage labor through off-shoring or through lower labor rates here in the states... either way the profits go up and you get more investors. So either way profit, thus investor cash is tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor.

The right was lying to you. If investment cash increases then, jobs increase for "someone" but if the jobs are offshored you won't see that increase here in the states. By my "logic" raising wages increases jobs internationally, thus reducing unemployment internationally. You think I'm talking in circles, but really you're just not listening to what I said, you are trying to map what I said so some political campaign BS.

 

[edthecynic]

You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.

Stop crying like a baby. He did not misquote you. He quoted you verbatim, as did I. You said, "minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment." which is patently absurd as evidenced by the chart I posted. Your further explanation as to where you think those jobs disappear does not alter the meaning of the part we quoted.

Wrong. I clearly explained that when there are no rules to force the jobs to stay in place, forcing the wages up is equivalent to forcing the jobs out of our market. Thus while I indicated that in our environment where there are no rules forcing jobs to stay in place... minimum wage increases unemployment. Thus I was quoted out of context. Removing qualifying statements from a statement is miss-quoting.

For example, in Germany there are laws against offshoring and layoffs... thus forced minimum wage hikes, if the company can stay in business, might not result in more unemployment... rather it might result in less profit in the short term instead if the prices can't be raised.

No, you said profit/investor cash goes up either way.

Now if investment cash increases then, we are told by the Right, jobs increase, so by your own "logic" raising wages increases jobs reducing unemployment. You talk yourself into such circles you don't even know what YOU said.

As for your accusation that forcing corporations to leave to seek lower wage labor... somehow corrects for a poverty of money in our money based markets... Whether corporations get lower wage labor through off-shoring or through lower labor rates here in the states... either way the profits go up and you get more investors. So either way profit, thus investor cash is tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor.

The right was lying to you. If investment cash increases then, jobs increase for "someone" but if the jobs are offshored you won't see that increase here in the states. By my "logic" raising wages increases jobs internationally, thus reducing unemployment internationally. You think I'm talking in circles, but really you're just not listening to what I said, you are trying to map what I said so some political campaign BS.

Since when is the USA not part of the international market?
Keep spinning!

 

[RKMBrown]

You're a LIAR. I qualified my meaning in the next paragraph. You miss-quoted me. Which, btw, is against forum rules.

Stop crying like a baby. He did not misquote you. He quoted you verbatim, as did I. You said, "minimum wage increases unemployment, thus it does not "correct" capitalism's Natural Rate of Unemployment." which is patently absurd as evidenced by the chart I posted. Your further explanation as to where you think those jobs disappear does not alter the meaning of the part we quoted.

Wrong. I clearly explained that when there are no rules to force the jobs to stay in place, forcing the wages up is equivalent to forcing the jobs out of our market. Thus while I indicated that in our environment where there are no rules forcing jobs to stay in place... minimum wage increases unemployment. Thus I was quoted out of context. Removing qualifying statements from a statement is miss-quoting.

For example, in Germany there are laws against offshoring and layoffs... thus forced minimum wage hikes, if the company can stay in business, might not result in more unemployment... rather it might result in less profit in the short term instead if the prices can't be raised.

No, you said profit/investor cash goes up either way.

Now if investment cash increases then, we are told by the Right, jobs increase, so by your own "logic" raising wages increases jobs reducing unemployment. You talk yourself into such circles you don't even know what YOU said.

As for your accusation that forcing corporations to leave to seek lower wage labor... somehow corrects for a poverty of money in our money based markets... Whether corporations get lower wage labor through off-shoring or through lower labor rates here in the states... either way the profits go up and you get more investors. So either way profit, thus investor cash is tied to whether minimum wage increases are tied to legality of off-shoring, and importing illegal and h1b labor.

The right was lying to you. If investment cash increases then, jobs increase for "someone" but if the jobs are offshored you won't see that increase here in the states. By my "logic" raising wages increases jobs internationally, thus reducing unemployment internationally. You think I'm talking in circles, but really you're just not listening to what I said, you are trying to map what I said so some political campaign BS.

Since when is the USA not part of the international market?
Keep spinning!

Where did I say the USA is not part of the international market? Are you retarded?

There are billions of people in the world. The USA could get to 100% unemployment with the rest of the world being at 0%.